Ram Air air cleaner same for 429 and 351C?

[Stanglover]

Does anybody happen to know if the Ram Air air cleaners are the same for both 429 and 351C engines? The hoods are the same I'm sure, but I was wondering if the height from the manifold carb base to the inlet plenum seal is the same. Engine heights can be changed with motor mounts and frame perches to make up the differences in block height.

Just curios, not looking for 10 pages of post on this one.

Thanks,

Geoff.

 

[secluff]

Geoff, the biggest difference is going to be the bases. Two for the 429 and one for the 351C. The 385 series big blocks had a base for the  CJ Rochester and another for the SCJ Holly equipped model. That was to deal with the air horn locater tab difference between the two carburetors.

The 351 version was offset to place the air filter and lid in the same location as the 429 version. Physical differences between the two engines necessitated the offset lower housing to keep all the air cleaner seals in the same area under the plenum. There are a few subtle differences that I won't go into since you wanted it short and sweet. 

Since the 4300 4bl and 2100 2bl sat in the same location on the 351 C the same ram air housing was utilized. No ten pages!!     

 

[Canted 393]

Scroll down, some good info here.

http://www.fordramair.com/new/products/ram_air_units.htm

 

[EdM]

I have an original one from my 351 Cleveland that I need to get rid of. No idea what it is worth though.

 

[Stanglover]

Geoff, the biggest difference is going to be the bases. Two for the 429 and one for the 351C. The 385 series big blocks had a base for the  CJ Rochester and another for the SCJ Holly equipped model. That was to deal with the air horn locater tab difference between the two carburetors.

The 351 version was offset to place the air filter and lid in the same location as the 429 version. Physical differences between the two engines necessitated the offset lower housing to keep all the air cleaner seals in the same area under the plenum. There are a few subtle differences that I won't go into since you wanted it short and sweet. 

Since the 4300 4bl and 2100 2bl sat in the same location on the 351 C the same ram air housing was utilized. No ten pages!!     

Steve, thanks for your reply. I was hoping to get the info from you, but instead of a PM, I thought it best to put it on the Forum for others to benefit.

Actually, my question was more for a friend (and fellow member who seems reluctant to post) as well as for my own curiosity.

By the bases, I take it you mean the "Lower Shell" as they are/were called when I worked in the air cleaner industry back in the 70's. Unfortunately, all these were just before my time there. That makes sense as numerous versions were made for different, but similar vehicles, Chrysler mainly. 

So, there are two similar, but different "shells" for the 429 depending on the carb installed and one for the 351C, but the 351 is offset. That means there ARE different air cleaners for the 429 and 351 so my question about the height is mute. 

I don't believe Ford air cleaners had numbers stamped on them to identify the differences, just part number stickers which will be long gone in most cases. Is there another way to quickly identify which is which? The 351 is obvious now, so it's the 429's are the question. Carb flanges diameters are the same for 4 barrels and I think the 2bl as well, but the dimension from the flange to the element seat could be different for the two carbs you list, not just the locate tabs, which can easily be removed.

As for aftermarket reproductions, are both 429 version as well as a 351 version offered? I don't (yet) know. Some research needs to be done I guess,

Thanks Steve,

Geoff.

 

[Stanglover]

I have an original one from my 351 Cleveland that I need to get rid of. No idea what it is worth though.

 Thanks, but as it seems there are different a/c's it'll be the 429 version that is needed.

Geoff.

 

[Stanglover]

Scroll down, some good info here.

http://www.fordramair.com/new/products/ram_air_units.htm

  Good link there, thanks, Should have looked at that sooner before answering other replies.

Geoff.

 

[secluff]

Geoff.

Don't you wish you still had access to some of the items that were scrapped back then?  Except for some heavy truck models, most of the air cleaners were only available as an assembly from Ford. The duct and valve (snorkel) were another separate piece on many of the air cleaners since the main housing would be the same for several models but the duct and valve were vehicle specific. That only got worse as the years rolled by. Most of the duct and valves at least had an ink stamp of the engineering number. Occasionally there would be an illegible or missing number. Sure wished Ford had done the same for the lower shell or base. Except for some models such as the 68 GT500 KR, 71-73 Mustangs, and 72 Montego (which used plenum chambers), the majority of Ford ram air cars had the Flapper door in the air cleaner lid. Those usually have three studs on the base to help retain the heavier upper lid/flapper door assembly. Guess they figured the paper tag would suffice as no one figured we would be "Fretting" over these cars nearly fifty years later!

I believe Ford only built a little over 1,500 ram air 71 429 Mustangs, so anyone willing to modify an OE air cleaner is not going to be on a very long list. Not sure what would be necessary to work the air horn issue between the two different carburetors. Believe it or not, most of my friends in our 429 Club that did not have "Shaker" cars pitched their ram-air cleaners. Most felt the air cleaners were a PIA to remove/reinstall when they were racing and wanted to do carb work or fine-tune the engine.

They preferred a simple open-element air cleaner as Ford used on the high performance 271/289. The two "Throw Aways" that makes me cringe the most is one off a 69 Boss 429 and a 70 SCJ Cyclone. Thrown away like they came off a Pinto!! 

At this point, unless an OE air cleaner falls out of the sky into your lap. the site canted 393 listed looks to be an only choice. They do offer a 429 base/shell in fiberglass for around $400.00. If your friend is more concerned about functionally over 100% Concours appearance then this may be an option for him.  

 

[Stanglover]

Geoff.

Don't you wish you still had access to some of the items that were scrapped back then?  Except for some heavy truck models, most of the air cleaners were only available as an assembly from Ford. The duct and valve (snorkel) were another separate piece on many of the air cleaners since the main housing would be the same for several models but the duct and valve were vehicle specific. That only got worse as the years rolled by. Most of the duct and valves at least had an ink stamp of the engineering number. Occasionally there would be an illegible or missing number. Sure wished Ford had done the same for the lower shell or base. Except for some models such as the 68 GT500 KR, 71-73 Mustangs, and 72 Montego (which used plenum chambers), the majority of Ford ram air cars had the Flapper door in the air cleaner lid. Those usually have three studs on the base to help retain the heavier upper lid/flapper door assembly. Guess they figured the paper tag would suffice as no one figured we would be "Fretting" over these cars nearly fifty years later!

I believe Ford only built a little over 1,500 ram air 71 429 Mustangs, so anyone willing to modify an OE air cleaner is not going to be on a very long list. Not sure what would be necessary to work the air horn issue between the two different carburetors. Believe it or not, most of my friends in our 429 Club that did not have "Shaker" cars pitched their ram-air cleaners. Most felt the air cleaners were a PIA to remove/reinstall when they were racing and wanted to do carb work or fine-tune the engine.

They preferred a simple open-element air cleaner as Ford used on the high performance 271/289. The two "Throw Aways" that makes me cringe the most is one off a 69 Boss 429 and a 70 SCJ Cyclone. Thrown away like they came off a Pinto!! 

At this point, unless an OE air cleaner falls out of the sky into your lap. the site canted 393 listed looks to be an only choice. They do offer a 429 base/shell in fiberglass for around $400.00. If your friend is more concerned about functionally over 100% Concours appearance then this may be an option for him.  

 Oh how so true!! For me unfortunately, I arrived on the scene a couple of years too late, 1973. We at Canadian Fram, made the snorkels and vacuum motors for Ford, but not the shells, although I believe the tooling for them was made here, not totally sure on that, but the stampings are so similar to be in character with Fram tooling.

At Fram there was a department called "Service and Samples" and comprised of about 3 or 4 production workers with the seniority to do the job. They built up from spare stampings, Chrysler 6 pack and similar air cleaners for warranty or dealer replacements. At the time of course, I took little notice, it was just routine back then.

I sure wish I'd scooped a box or two of vacuum motor and temp sensor parts, could have made a fortune!! 

As for the 429 ram air, I think he's out of luck unless someone happens to have one they're willing to part with. I have no idea what carb will be used at this time, but if my friend is reading this, maybe he'll chime in.

Thank you Steve for your knowledge. You're mine of information for sure .

Geoff.