Reassembly help needed

[73vertproject]

OK, a old timer buddy of mine wanted to give me a Christmas present, and decided to put the engine back in the 'vert for me while I was at work (he's installed many other small body 'stang motors), which was a wonderful gift. After a lot of swearing and creativity, he got it in with some help from another friend and finally me when I got home. Yay!

I got the headers attached (and then took the right one off and back on to get the starter in) and some other miscellaneous progress until I got the the powertrain. I had installed a new cam, which came with new lifters, etc. and I also bought new pushrods, and was finally able to install a set of like-new rockers sent as a gift from Coilwire (Jim). I hand-tightened the rockers, so this is where I'm at:







In order to torque the rocker arms to the correct torque, I need to ensure that each of the cylinders is at top dead center when I torque them, right? During the rebuild, I also installed a new used harmonic balancer (also courtesy of Coilwire), but didn't pay attention to the location of the pistons, I don't think. So this is what it looks like. There are no numbers readable on the HB:



So, what is the best way to proceed from here? I gotta get the rockers torqued and install the intake, dizzy, etc. but I'm stuck. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've got the Haynes book, but it doesn't help much with this situation.

Doc

 

[droptop73]

If you are using the pedestal rockers you do not need to bring the pistons to TDC although that makes it easier.

I would look into getting a timing tape for the balancer so you have an idea where the timing is. As it is now you have a mark which may or may not be TDC. From there timing would be a guess. You can get real close to finding true TDC by using a piece of wood dowel or something similarly soft and insert it through the spark plug hole and feeling for where the piston stops when you crank the engine over by hand.

I hope this helps Doc.

 

[73vertproject]

Thanks, Jeff. OK, I stuck a wooden dowel in #1 spark plug hole and rotated the crank by hand until the top of the piston stopped pushing the dowel out of the hole and it started back down. I reversed a smidge until it was at the highest point. This (according to my POS cam degree wheel) appears to be about 170* away from where the pointer was pointing at the groove in the side of the HB (as seen in the last pic above). Should I put a mark on the HB now where the pointer is now pointing? And then torque the #1 intake and exhaust rocker arms (yep, they're pedestal)? And then do the same process with pistons #2 through #8?

Thanks again for the help!

Doc

 

[Qcode351mach]

OK, a old timer buddy of mine wanted to give me a Christmas present, and decided to put the engine back in the 'vert for me while I was at work (he's installed many other small body 'stang motors), which was a wonderful gift. After a lot of swearing and creativity, he got it in with some help from another friend and finally me when I got home. Yay!

I got the headers attached (and then took the right one off and back on to get the starter in) and some other miscellaneous progress until I got the the powertrain. I had installed a new cam, which came with new lifters, etc. and I also bought new pushrods, and was finally able to install a set of like-new rockers sent as a gift from Coilwire (Jim). I hand-tightened the rockers, so this is where I'm at:

In order to torque the rocker arms to the correct torque, I need to ensure that each of the cylinders is at top dead center when I torque them, right? During the rebuild, I also installed a new used harmonic balancer (also courtesy of Coilwire), but didn't pay attention to the location of the pistons, I don't think. So this is what it looks like. There are no numbers readable on the HB:

So, what is the best way to proceed from here? I gotta get the rockers torqued and install the intake, dizzy, etc. but I'm stuck. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've got the Haynes book, but it doesn't help much with this situation.

Doc

You know now would be the time to paint the engine compartment

First off did you apply break in lube to the bottoms of the lifters ?

The Hb can only go on one way The mark you see is the tdc mark..Align that with the pointer & check to make sure the #1 piston is all the way up to the top..If not then it's 180 degrees out & one more rotation of the crank should bring the piston all the way up. I would turn it a full 360 after you think it's correct just to confirm. Thats the same procedure your going to use to install the dizzy..You need to make sure the rotor is on the #1 plug wire & ends up staying there or very close when you drop the dizzy in. So you get tdc on the #1 piston..rotor on the #1 wire drop in the dizzy..I would get the intake on first before dropping in the dizzy..I will post in a few how to set the valve lash..You need to confirm that the new pushrods are in fact correct..Don't take it for granted

 

[73vertproject]

Hey, Scott. Yep, I applied engine assembly lube to the bottom of the lifters, and to both ends of the rods after I squirted oil through them. Also applied EAL to the cups of the rockers. Probably overkill, but don't want any wear before the oil gets flowing.

Ya, it looks like the HB is 180 degrees off. Is that a problem? I'll get the HB tape as soon as I can, but in the meantime, can I just mark TDC on the HB, or should I remove the HB and rotate it 180* and reinstall it?

How do I confirm that the pushrods are correct?

Doc

 

[Qcode351mach]

Hey, Scott. Yep, I applied engine assembly lube to the bottom of the lifters, and to both ends of the rods after I squirted oil through them. Also applied EAL to the cups of the rockers. Probably overkill, but don't want any wear before the oil gets flowing.

Ya, it looks like the HB is 180 degrees off. Is that a problem? I'll get the HB tape as soon as I can, but in the meantime, can I just mark TDC on the HB, or should I remove the HB and rotate it 180* and reinstall it?

How do I confirm that the pushrods are correct?

Doc

Doc I don't think the HB is off it only goes on the crank 1 way..There should be a key way that locates it. You don't rotate the HB if it's not lining up you rotate the entire crank with the hb on it & the pointer should be in the center of the groove on the hb in your pic it's still not there.

setting valve lash will tell you if the pushrods are ok

http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/comp-cams-how-valve-lash-adjustment-2076.html

 

[Mustruck]

Hey, Scott. Yep, I applied engine assembly lube to the bottom of the lifters, and to both ends of the rods after I squirted oil through them. Also applied EAL to the cups of the rockers. Probably overkill, but don't want any wear before the oil gets flowing.

Ya, it looks like the HB is 180 degrees off. Is that a problem? I'll get the HB tape as soon as I can, but in the meantime, can I just mark TDC on the HB, or should I remove the HB and rotate it 180* and reinstall it?

How do I confirm that the pushrods are correct?

4 stroke engine. valve opening and closing as the engine is turned through. exhaust open and closed, Intake open and closed. turn untill # 1 piston is at top dead center. If the timeing chain is correctly installed , the timing mark will line up . The 4 strokes are: Intake, compression,power, exhaust.

Doc

Doc I don't think the HB is off it only goes on the crank 1 way..There should be a key way that locates it. You don't rotate the HB if it's not lining up you rotate the entire crank with the hb on it & the pointer should be in the center of the groove on the hb in your pic it's still not there.

setting valve lash will tell you if the pushrods are ok

http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/comp-cams-how-valve-lash-adjustment-2076.html

I screwed up and got the valve sequinc e in the middle of the other post.

 

[73mach1]

sounds like your on the exhaust stroke to me.put your dowell rod back in and turn the motor backwards untill it goes down and back up again, that should be tdc and the marks should line up on your balancer.Scott is right the balancer only goes on one way so it should be pretty close.

 

[Mister 4x4]

A silver Sharpie will get your timing mark on the balancer visible for the time being.

I had to adjust the lash on my roller rockers, and had an old 1972 Chilton's manual at the shop to tell me the order. At TDC; adjust #1 intake and exhaust + 2 others, then rotate 180, and adjust four of the other rockers. Then rotate 270 from that and hit 4 more, then another 180 and hit the last 4. I'll hafta look that up tomorrow and write it down if you like.

Basically though, the non-roller rockers are zero-lash units, so finding TDC of each cylinder (rotate the crank 90 degrees should bring up the next cylinder to TDC in firing order, repeat for each cylinder), and torque 'em to 20 ft-lbs. Then you're done.

Hope that helps, and someone more engine savvy please let me know if my '90 degrees per cylinder' idea is wrong. I don't want to give bad information.

Good luck, Doc. Can't wait to see it all back together and hear about how much better it runs!

 

[73vertproject]

Thanks, everyone, for your help. I'll be back with my next questions as soon as I get the valve lash adjusted correctly tomorrow morning.

I'll let you know how things go.

Doc

 

[mach71351c]

OK, a old timer buddy of mine wanted to give me a Christmas present, and decided to put the engine back in the 'vert for me while I was at work (he's installed many other small body 'stang motors), which was a wonderful gift. After a lot of swearing and creativity, he got it in with some help from another friend and finally me when I got home. Yay!

I got the headers attached (and then took the right one off and back on to get the starter in) and some other miscellaneous progress until I got the the powertrain. I had installed a new cam, which came with new lifters, etc. and I also bought new pushrods, and was finally able to install a set of like-new rockers sent as a gift from Coilwire (Jim). I hand-tightened the rockers, so this is where I'm at: +1. This would be a good time to paint the engine bay.

In order to torque the rocker arms to the correct torque, I need to ensure that each of the cylinders is at top dead center when I torque them, right? During the rebuild, I also installed a new used harmonic balancer (also courtesy of Coilwire), but didn't pay attention to the location of the pistons, I don't think. So this is what it looks like. There are no numbers readable on the HB:

So, what is the best way to proceed from here? I gotta get the rockers torqued and install the intake, dizzy, etc. but I'm stuck. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've got the Haynes book, but it doesn't help much with this situation.

Doc

You know now would be the time to paint the engine compartment

First off did you apply break in lube to the bottoms of the lifters ?

The Hb can only go on one way The mark you see is the tdc mark..Align that with the pointer & check to make sure the #1 piston is all the way up to the top..If not then it's 180 degrees out & one more rotation of the crank should bring the piston all the way up. I would turn it a full 360 after you think it's correct just to confirm. Thats the same procedure your going to use to install the dizzy..You need to make sure the rotor is on the #1 plug wire & ends up staying there or very close when you drop the dizzy in. So you get tdc on the #1 piston..rotor on the #1 wire drop in the dizzy..I would get the intake on first before dropping in the dizzy..I will post in a few how to set the valve lash..You need to confirm that the new pushrods are in fact correct..Don't take it for granted

 

[sm3570]

Good progress Doc, can't wait for the finished product!!!

 

[NoLimitssjca]

I wish elves would stop by to work on my ride while I was gone.

 

[c9zx]

OK, a old timer buddy of mine wanted to give me a Christmas present, and decided to put the engine back in the 'vert for me while I was at work (he's installed many other small body 'stang motors), which was a wonderful gift. After a lot of swearing and creativity, he got it in with some help from another friend and finally me when I got home. Yay!

I got the headers attached (and then took the right one off and back on to get the starter in) and some other miscellaneous progress until I got the the powertrain. I had installed a new cam, which came with new lifters, etc. and I also bought new pushrods, and was finally able to install a set of like-new rockers sent as a gift from Coilwire (Jim). I hand-tightened the rockers, so this is where I'm at:

In order to torque the rocker arms to the correct torque, I need to ensure that each of the cylinders is at top dead center when I torque them, right? During the rebuild, I also installed a new used harmonic balancer (also courtesy of Coilwire), but didn't pay attention to the location of the pistons, I don't think. So this is what it looks like. There are no numbers readable on the HB:

So, what is the best way to proceed from here? I gotta get the rockers torqued and install the intake, dizzy, etc. but I'm stuck. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've got the Haynes book, but it doesn't help much with this situation.

Doc

Doc, As others have said you were on exhaust stroke rather than compression stroke. It is better to move from cylinder to cylinder following the firing order to bolt down the non-adjustable rocker arms. You should check for proper lifter preload. It varies based on the manufacturer, typically .020-.040. Check with the comp people. This is from comp cams. Look at setting pre-load with non-adjustable valve train. http://www.compcams.com/v002/Pages/405/lifter-tech-faq.aspx#HydraulicLifterPreLoadNonAdjustableValveTrain I hope the push rods are the right length. Keep us posted. Chuck

 

[73vertproject]

Again, everyone, thanks for the help. I couldn't scratch my head enough to figure out what was going on, so I had another engine builder come over to give me a hand. Turns out, my builder must have put it together as if it were a chebby (which is what they usually build) - with #1 cylinder in the front on the DRIVER's side, not in front on the PASSENGER side. That would explain the timing mark being EXACTLY 180* off. We pulled the HB and looked at the old cam and timing gears, and that's the best explanation we could come up with for everything to be exactly 180* off. Of course, we can still just place the timing mark 180* opposite of where it should be on the HB, but I'm going to talk to the original builder and get his opinion. He was pretty nice (but slow) during the build - now I want to see what he says and go from there.

Probably have to pull the water pump and timing chain cover and reset the cam, it looks like. I'll let you know how much, if any, satisfaction I can get from the builder. Wish me luck.

Doc

 

[NoLimitssjca]

Hey Doc, At least you figured out what happened. Hope you get it all straightened out.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Those Chevy guys, I swear. My friend Gonzo has a blue 68 Camaro RS/SS that he pulled the original 327 years ago to refresh. Well, he finally got around to pulling out the substitute 350 (which was still running strong, BTW), and rebuilt the 327. Over Christmas, Jim and I helped him get the 327 back into its rightful place. Went to fire it up, and guess what: 180* off. Same guys (Gonzo and his friend James - a self-proclaimed Chevy guy) were working on the 396 in his other [white] '68 RS/SS, and James kept stuffing the dizzy in 180* off because he was looking at the engine diagram upside down.

It sounds to me like the Chevy guys are just bass-ackwards?

 

[73vertproject]

LOL, Eric! I guess that's one way to describe 180* off.

Doc

 

[machman_73]

I just wanted to mention that I've had 2 of these original HB's outer sleeve slip which moves the timing marks to a different location. It can really mess you up. I went with a new solid (I think)HB from summit. For checking the HB for slippage it looks like maybe the crank slot is in the straight up position for the timing mark to be on the pointer. Can anybody confirm this.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TCI-870007/?rtype=10