What are my options?

[72fastback]

Big Block? A 460 will fit in there very easily. Could even be stroked to a 514:-/

 

[whitesoc]

http://www.pro-formanceunlimited.com/index.html

I like the crate engine idea myself......but I suffer from the condition of deep pockets and short arms lollerz

 

[cobra3073]

Mike,

You say one of the pistons was stamped .040 and then you ask the question (rhetorical?) as to why they would bore the block .020 and then add dome pistons.

Are the other other pistons stamped .040 also? You say or infer you have acquired other engine parts for this motor. What parts have you acquired? This could impact any advice as to what you need to do. Also curious as to where the crack is on the block.

Did you ever post up the casting numbers on the block and heads? I do not recall seeing them.

What are your ULTIMATE plans for your '71 Grande?

All of this information will assist in our making suggestions as to your options.

BT

Just posted a detailed reply with pictures and it got lost in cyberspace.

A synopsis. Never got the pictures of the casting # as we were too bummed out about the crack and that fell by the wayside. Only one of the pistons was stamped. Have not seen the crack but it is in the lower half of one cylinder. We thought about installing a sleeve, but only for a moment :s The rest of the engine is in prestine condition with excellent heads and no wear on the lifters. We installed a new water pump, oil pan and carb with the rest of the additions being mostly cosmetic. I have access to a garage with all the toys and a lift. My mechanic, from whom I bought the car, wants to buy it back some day so the car is in good hands. So it comes down to buying a short block or a block and using the existing parts. All expertise and facilities are free aside from the occassional bottle of wine, steak dinner and Sharks tickets So it is just the cost of the parts. I want to keep it as original as possible.

mike

Mike,

I would be concerned about only one of the pistons being stamped .040 and would measure the others to ensure they are what they "should" be. If originality (numbers matching) is your goal, there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with getting a sleeve (or sleeves) installed. A lot of the REALLY heavy hitters have run fully sleeved blocks with great results.

That having been said, I think that is a GREAT offer from Don (OMS) if you want to build it yourself and cannot find a 351C block locally. Keep in mind that even if you get a 2 bolt block, you can used the 4-bolted mains off of your "cracked" block.

It sounds as if you are in a "good place" labor-wise in building it yourself with the help of your Mechanic friend. Considering what you have said in the above post, I believe I would take a SERIOUS look at the sleeving option, AFTER I have made sure as to what I have as it relates to the block and heads. The casting numbers will assist you in that effort.

Hope this helps.

BT

 

[c9zx]

Maybe???? Craig's List [email protected] Chuck

 

[OMS]

Mike is the block numbers matching?

I forgot you have a 71 Grande M code 4 speed car

" A Mach 1 wearing a Grande suit"

If it's matching I would try and save it or at least save / store the block

Don

 

[marks73]

If the other cylinders have not been bored. And the rest of the block is as good as you describe. SLEEVE IT!!! There is nothing substandard about a sleeved cylinder, performance or any other reason. JMHO

 

[Mister 4x4]

Sometimes you have to get away from the big box stores and look around. found this one in about 2 minutes and if i had more time I have found a lot higher HP in the past for not much more money. Just did not save it.

http://www.precisionengine.com/rebuilt-engines/ford-crate-engines/mach1.html

I stand corrected. My engine's never been out of the car, so rebuilding was always my first choice.

 

[Tnfastbk]

Sometimes you have to get away from the big box stores and look around. found this one in about 2 minutes and if i had more time I have found a lot higher HP in the past for not much more money. Just did not save it.

http://www.precisionengine.com/rebuilt-engines/ford-crate-engines/mach1.html

I stand corrected. My engine's never been out of the car, so rebuilding was always my first choice.

LOL only reason I knew about them was after I had to mortgage my house to finish my motor, just for laughs started looking around and what I found really did not make me feel any better about the amount I spent.

 

[goodnigh]

Mike is the block numbers matching?

I forgot you have a 71 Grande M code 4 speed car

" A Mach 1 wearing a Grande suit"

If it's matching I would try and save it or at least save / store the block

Don

No, the numbers don't match so that does not matter. One of the heads is a D3 and the other a D1, don't know about the block yet. All other numbers on the heads are the same. What does the "AA" stamp at the end of the number mean?

mike

 

[marks73]

D1AE 6090-AA 71-74 2Vhead, D3ZE-AA 4V CJ head. Probably need to post the whole number.

 

[goodnigh]

Mike,

I would be concerned about only one of the pistons being stamped .040 and would measure the others to ensure they are what they "should" be. If originality (numbers matching) is your goal, there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with getting a sleeve (or sleeves) installed. A lot of the REALLY heavy hitters have run fully sleeved blocks with great results.

That having been said, I think that is a GREAT offer from Don (OMS) if you want to build it yourself and cannot find a 351C block locally. Keep in mind that even if you get a 2 bolt block, you can used the 4-bolted mains off of your "cracked" block.

It sounds as if you are in a "good place" labor-wise in building it yourself with the help of your Mechanic friend. Considering what you have said in the above post, I believe I would take a SERIOUS look at the sleeving option, AFTER I have made sure as to what I have as it relates to the block and heads. The casting numbers will assist you in that effort.

Hope this helps.

BT

It all helps. Due to the location of the crack I have been told a sleeve is not a good option. That was my mechanic's first choice. The crack is at the bottom third of cylinder four adjacent to cylinder three. As odd as it may seem, the cylinder with the crack is the one that has the piston stamped .040 :dodgy: Two machinists looked at the crack and said a sleeve was not a good option. You would likely damage cylinder three. Another issue is if the pistons are the same size and they used larger rings on cylinder four. Why did they only bore one cylinder if that is the case :s Since this is an open chamber head I like the idea of using the existing pop-up pistons. We can buy a new short block or use parts from the broken one on a simple block.

Despite having to walk to work (2 miles) I am having fun trying to figure this out

mike

 

[cobra3073]

Mike,

As previously stated by someone else, please keep in mind that boring .040 over is NOT normally a good thing for our Cleveland blocks. Keeping the .040 popup pistons will of course require punching the "donor" block to that same size which could be counter-productive.

I would say that a better decision might be to try and find a standard bore block and clean it up to the minimum bore size you need and order custom pistons for the desired compression ratio, utilizing the chamber volume on your open chamber heads. I believe you will come out "cheaper" in the long run.

I am honestly intrigued by what you actually have with that motor, what with all the (on the surface) mixed and matched parts. Quite frankly, if it was me, I would tear it all the way down and see what crankshaft, what camshaft and everything else that it has. It seems to me that someone has definitely been "into" that motor.

BT

 

[marks73]

Your mechanics are absolutely correct with where the crack is. I'd take cobra3073's advice and do a full tear down. Salvage what you can. And know for sure what you have when your done. Sounds like someone tried the cheap and dirty on that block. Hate it.

 

[Mister 4x4]

I stand corrected. My engine's never been out of the car, so rebuilding was always my first choice.

LOL only reason I knew about them was after I had to mortgage my house to finish my motor, just for laughs started looking around and what I found really did not make me feel any better about the amount I spent.

And a beautiful work of art your engine has become - it will most definitely bring home some car show trophies. Mine will be mildy resto-moded for a bit more oomph and some coolness factor when the hood's popped. After all the work I'm putting into it, I plan on driving the wheels off... then put some new ones back on and drive it some more.

 

[goodnigh]

Mike,

As previously stated by someone else, please keep in mind that boring .040 over is NOT normally a good thing for our Cleveland blocks. Keeping the .040 popup pistons will of course require punching the "donor" block to that same size which could be counter-productive.

I would say that a better decision might be to try and find a standard bore block and clean it up to the minimum bore size you need and order custom pistons for the desired compression ratio, utilizing the chamber volume on your open chamber heads. I believe you will come out "cheaper" in the long run.

I am honestly intrigued by what you actually have with that motor, what with all the (on the surface) mixed and matched parts. Quite frankly, if it was me, I would tear it all the way down and see what crankshaft, what camshaft and everything else that it has. It seems to me that someone has definitely been "into" that motor.

BT

The motor has been rebuilt for sure. Since the heads are from different years and there appears to be only one over bored cylinder, we think someone sucked a valve and scored the cylinder in question while also wrecking the head. The head labeled D3 on my '71 is above the broken cylinder. The story begins to come together. If they used a larger piston on cylinder four, how did they compensate for the weight imbalance? We also noticed the head gaskets were different between right and left. By that I mean of a different material. When we thought we only had a blown head gasket, we looked at three different gaskets and only one set fit properly although all three were made for a 351C 4V engine. We will for sure pull everything from the broken block. Whether we buy a short block or a simple block and use the parts we have remains to be seen.

mike

 

[73vertproject]

Please keep us posted. What a strange engine you have...

Doc

 

[goodnigh]

Please keep us posted. What a strange engine you have...

Doc

Been driving the car for five years and it ran like a demon Love this car. All of what I have seen helps explain why we had tune up "issues" in the past. The engine simply could not be coaxed into behaving like a stock Cleveland :dodgy: Could never get the timing below 10 or the vacuum above 15 no matter what we tried. Went through three carbs before settling on the current Holley 4150 at 670 CFM and the car loves it and could use a bigger one.

mike

 

[marks73]

I have never heard of someone putting in one oversized piston. I mean think about it. Obviously they would have had to bore it which is a total tear down. I don't know of an engine machinest that would try to find an oversized piston of the same weight as the other seven for balance. Had to be an economics issue that doomed the motors future but got them by at the time. I'm sure it will be sweet when your done though!

 

[droptop73]

It surely sounds like a mess. I agree with those above, find a good standard bore block and clean up the bores if necessary and build a new short-block. You can re-use your pistons if they are not more than .030" oversized. Inside the pistons should be some markings to steer you in the right direction need in finding a replacement for the one you need. Check the ring grooves to make sure they are not worn or damaged.

 

[cobra3073]

Mike,

As previously stated by someone else, please keep in mind that boring .040 over is NOT normally a good thing for our Cleveland blocks. Keeping the .040 popup pistons will of course require punching the "donor" block to that same size which could be counter-productive.

I would say that a better decision might be to try and find a standard bore block and clean it up to the minimum bore size you need and order custom pistons for the desired compression ratio, utilizing the chamber volume on your open chamber heads. I believe you will come out "cheaper" in the long run.

I am honestly intrigued by what you actually have with that motor, what with all the (on the surface) mixed and matched parts. Quite frankly, if it was me, I would tear it all the way down and see what crankshaft, what camshaft and everything else that it has. It seems to me that someone has definitely been "into" that motor.

BT

The motor has been rebuilt for sure. Since the heads are from different years and there appears to be only one over bored cylinder, we think someone sucked a valve and scored the cylinder in question while also wrecking the head. The head labeled D3 on my '71 is above the broken cylinder. The story begins to come together. If they used a larger piston on cylinder four, how did they compensate for the weight imbalance? We also noticed the head gaskets were different between right and left. By that I mean of a different material. When we thought we only had a blown head gasket, we looked at three different gaskets and only one set fit properly although all three were made for a 351C 4V engine. We will for sure pull everything from the broken block. Whether we buy a short block or a simple block and use the parts we have remains to be seen.

mike

[/quote

Yes, Mike I am EXTREMELY curious as to what else is inside that motor, particularly the other 7 pistons.

Considering how well you say your Mustang ran, I (like markmel stated or inferred) am wondering about how it was balanced, what with the one over sized piston.

This is a "head scratcher."

BT