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How did you tackle the holes below the door/fender ?
1972 Mustang Coupe 302
- Thread starter Paul Schmidt
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Agreed. Anxious to get back and finish it next weekend to see if it solves my running issues. Can't imagine it won't. If not, the only other thing I can think of would be a vacuum issue. But we'll see.
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It probably will, but the carb may need to be cleaned if any debris from the tank and old fuel got that far, hopefully it didn't get that far. The fact that it was running, even poorly, is a good sign for the carb, I think.
Sunday update 11/17. Did all the new fuel lines, did all new hoses, got the new gas tank in, filled her about half a tank with new gas, sending unit seemed to be fine....but no major change in terms of running. You can see for yourself she is still speening up slowing down....seems to be struggling. Granted I did't run her for very long and I am going to take her out for a spin...maybe she just needs some run time.
I'm kinda at a quandary at this point. Not sure what else to check seeming everything is practically new on the car. Only thing I can think of is vaccum. And I'm not overly familiar with how these vaccum systems are set up. I'm not sure if I have a hose off somewhere or what. Not sure if I need to redo the plugs...any recs are appreciated.
Litte frustrated considering the amount of work it took to redo that whole fuel system.
I'm kinda at a quandary at this point. Not sure what else to check seeming everything is practically new on the car. Only thing I can think of is vaccum. And I'm not overly familiar with how these vaccum systems are set up. I'm not sure if I have a hose off somewhere or what. Not sure if I need to redo the plugs...any recs are appreciated.
Litte frustrated considering the amount of work it took to redo that whole fuel system.
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I'd take it for a drive and see what it drives like. Sounds like it's missing a bit. Under driving load will add more insight. You're getting there!
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Update 11/18.
Most likely am going to call in my mechanic at this point to see what's up. Took her for a drive for about 45 minutes..no change....ran rough...again choking to almost a stall when you come to a light, runs and has power when you're on the gas...but otherwise struggles when coasting, slowing down and coming to a stop...and I am out of ideas. The only thing I just thought of is maybe there is a hose disconnected or some kind of vaccum issue that's not correct, so I took the following video for suggestions. I may not be seeing something blatantly obvious in my set up or connections that I either have missed, or just not familiar with. In fact this may be one of those moments where someone goes "dude has no idea what he's doing"
As you'll see in the video, this is my setup. I've got your standard oil breather running to the manifold, I have the carb vaccum running to the pump.I have the fuel line and fuel filter running to the carb from the pump. I have a PCV breather on the other valve, which is where the old elbow ran a hose to the cleaner before I swapped it out for an aftermarket...but in the back where the vaccum tree is, I have one hose that's capped and another just unattached. And that unattached hose was never attached to the old carb when I started either. Am I missing a crucial connection or airflow/vaccum issue? I am out of ideas at this point.
- PBR
Most likely am going to call in my mechanic at this point to see what's up. Took her for a drive for about 45 minutes..no change....ran rough...again choking to almost a stall when you come to a light, runs and has power when you're on the gas...but otherwise struggles when coasting, slowing down and coming to a stop...and I am out of ideas. The only thing I just thought of is maybe there is a hose disconnected or some kind of vaccum issue that's not correct, so I took the following video for suggestions. I may not be seeing something blatantly obvious in my set up or connections that I either have missed, or just not familiar with. In fact this may be one of those moments where someone goes "dude has no idea what he's doing"
As you'll see in the video, this is my setup. I've got your standard oil breather running to the manifold, I have the carb vaccum running to the pump.I have the fuel line and fuel filter running to the carb from the pump. I have a PCV breather on the other valve, which is where the old elbow ran a hose to the cleaner before I swapped it out for an aftermarket...but in the back where the vaccum tree is, I have one hose that's capped and another just unattached. And that unattached hose was never attached to the old carb when I started either. Am I missing a crucial connection or airflow/vaccum issue? I am out of ideas at this point.
- PBR
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If that open vacuum hose is pulling vacuum it needs to be plugged off. Also, is the engine warm in this video? If so, the choke is closed tight and that will cause problems. Even if the engine is cold you may want to back that choke off a bit so it's not shut tight.
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The engine was not warm, as I didn't run it today or prior to taking the video. I'll back it off and see if that makes a difference. I will also check if that open hose is pulling vacuum.
On a separate note, trying to make space for all the refurbished pieces...now my patio looks like Pauls Hot Part Lot. lol.
Latest update...
Happy with the body work progress, which is what I turned to tackling after the "grill incident that shall not be named"...and fairly happy where I came out on this. It needs some sanding and some clean up, but at least now I don't have gaping holes in the car for the first time, which is a plus.
Running issue is still present. Took her out for a stroll this morning...she starts great...runs great while gassing her...slow down to a stop light and have to switch her into neutral or she chokes out. She's also still doing that inconsistent idle with "blurts" coming out of the exhaust...and when it does that, I'm getting puffs of white smoke. (head gasket issue?). As long as you're cruising, she's still a beast. Gotta figure it out...and as I said before, I might have to take her in at this point, as my troubleshooting over the past couple weeks, and additional work on the fuel system seems to have made no/little difference.
Anyway, just thought I'd update you on how she's looking this morning. Certainly nice to see it starting to not look like it was in a gun battle. A little "before and current" attached.
- PBR
Happy with the body work progress, which is what I turned to tackling after the "grill incident that shall not be named"...and fairly happy where I came out on this. It needs some sanding and some clean up, but at least now I don't have gaping holes in the car for the first time, which is a plus.
Running issue is still present. Took her out for a stroll this morning...she starts great...runs great while gassing her...slow down to a stop light and have to switch her into neutral or she chokes out. She's also still doing that inconsistent idle with "blurts" coming out of the exhaust...and when it does that, I'm getting puffs of white smoke. (head gasket issue?). As long as you're cruising, she's still a beast. Gotta figure it out...and as I said before, I might have to take her in at this point, as my troubleshooting over the past couple weeks, and additional work on the fuel system seems to have made no/little difference.
Anyway, just thought I'd update you on how she's looking this morning. Certainly nice to see it starting to not look like it was in a gun battle. A little "before and current" attached.
- PBR
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If you think it's a head gasket issue check for minor water leaks. Also take peek into the radiator. You may see some oil film. Check for a milky looking oil also. I'd also check the plugs. Just some ideas.
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PBR: run a compression and leakdown test. You will better zero in on what's going on with your engine. Both tests are simple and provide valuable insight.
Morning all -
Side note and not directly progress related, but thought a review of this may help some others. As many of you know I have been tackling the bodywork on the coupe and the process of sanding her down to clean metal has been a work in progress. With about 3/4 of the car done, I saw the Eastwood Contour SCT tool on their site, watched the videos, called Eastwood to ask about whether or not this thing operated as efficiently as shown and decided to purchase to finish off the rest of the car. So that being said, here's a little review if any of you are considering it.
Overall - I guess it's ok for some moderate work. It was about $115 with shipping and came with one barrel. I had asked them on the phone whether or not one barrel would last that long, or if additional barrels would be a good idea. He mentioned that most people can do an entire car with one barrel, so I opted to not get more than what came with the unit. Not the case. My barrel lasted long enough to do one rear quarter panel of the car, which was a little disappointing. Took me about an hour and half to get down to bare metal with it. Upon reflection, I got the whole driver side of the car done in two hours with a DA and 120 grit pads. Additionally, I ended up going back on the areas done with my sander to clean up what I was left with from the SCT.
When not using it, the barrel tends to cool down and "melt" sort of...into whatever shape you last ran it across. For intance when sanding the contour edges of the back tail end, I came out the next morning to find that the barrel material has deformed into that same contour shape. Also disappointing.
On a flat surface and in small sections, it does easily take off the paint and any remaining filler down to bare metal and conditions its nicely (no etching or circular markings) but it my no means does it as easily or as quickly as they present it to do. I think this is a great tool to have in the garage for some small area panel work, or some flat panel surfaces, but not for use on an entire car. I found it to be pretty tedious once I was into the work and the barrel was being used, as the more usage it got, letting the barrel do the work as they suggest, was not doing the job without adding quite a bit of pressure.
Long story short, the DA sander was faster, more effective and easier to manage contours than this tool. Overall I'm ok with having it in the garage, but in hindsight, I would not ig given the chance, spend the money over sticking with my sander again.
Just passing along some info for you that might be considering it.
- PBR
Side note and not directly progress related, but thought a review of this may help some others. As many of you know I have been tackling the bodywork on the coupe and the process of sanding her down to clean metal has been a work in progress. With about 3/4 of the car done, I saw the Eastwood Contour SCT tool on their site, watched the videos, called Eastwood to ask about whether or not this thing operated as efficiently as shown and decided to purchase to finish off the rest of the car. So that being said, here's a little review if any of you are considering it.
Overall - I guess it's ok for some moderate work. It was about $115 with shipping and came with one barrel. I had asked them on the phone whether or not one barrel would last that long, or if additional barrels would be a good idea. He mentioned that most people can do an entire car with one barrel, so I opted to not get more than what came with the unit. Not the case. My barrel lasted long enough to do one rear quarter panel of the car, which was a little disappointing. Took me about an hour and half to get down to bare metal with it. Upon reflection, I got the whole driver side of the car done in two hours with a DA and 120 grit pads. Additionally, I ended up going back on the areas done with my sander to clean up what I was left with from the SCT.
When not using it, the barrel tends to cool down and "melt" sort of...into whatever shape you last ran it across. For intance when sanding the contour edges of the back tail end, I came out the next morning to find that the barrel material has deformed into that same contour shape. Also disappointing.
On a flat surface and in small sections, it does easily take off the paint and any remaining filler down to bare metal and conditions its nicely (no etching or circular markings) but it my no means does it as easily or as quickly as they present it to do. I think this is a great tool to have in the garage for some small area panel work, or some flat panel surfaces, but not for use on an entire car. I found it to be pretty tedious once I was into the work and the barrel was being used, as the more usage it got, letting the barrel do the work as they suggest, was not doing the job without adding quite a bit of pressure.
Long story short, the DA sander was faster, more effective and easier to manage contours than this tool. Overall I'm ok with having it in the garage, but in hindsight, I would not ig given the chance, spend the money over sticking with my sander again.
Just passing along some info for you that might be considering it.
- PBR
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Going to do this asap. Been digging into the research on this over the past couple days...specifically because I now am thinking I have a head gasket issue. There are no visible leaks of any coolant or fluids...however I am finding that I am checking off the boxes on many of the symptoms. I ran through an initial check list below:
Overheating: No
Rough / inconsistent idle: Yes.
Bubbling coolant: Checking that today. Going to do the old trick of taking off the radiator cap, then starting her to see if there is any bubbling.
Coolant loss: None visible.
Loss of Power: Not while driving. Only when stopping and slowing.
Blue exhaust: No.
Sweet smell: no, but there is an odor...slightly remenicent of burning rubber.
White smoke from exhaust: Yes. Although not consistent..only when it "blurts" out of tailpipe when misfiring.
Milky Oil: TBD
Cylinder Misfire: Small but yes.
Startup misfire with white exhaust smoke: Yes.
When I shut the car off, I have noticed a sound coming from the radiator, coolant reservoir...almost like a "blurb, blurb" sound similar to something refilling and air bubbles are escaping. Not sure how else to describe it. But thats a new sound over the past week or two since the issue started.
Going to check the coolant bubbling issue and oil condition today. More to come, but this is the new "area of focus" on the current running issue since these checked boxes seem to all fit. Can't imagine what else it could be. More to come.
- PBR
Pile of parts yearning to be installed in my office. Will eventually have a spread of interior pieces with some fresh paint like this myself soon enough.
Just a note for all you to have a great thanksgiving. Hope your holiday is enjoyable and thanks for all the great advice support and guidance you all continue to throw my way on the car. This forum has saved my ass quite a few times since joining. Great group of people here.
Speaking of which, my intent was to spend the weekend tinkering away on it with my pops who's visiting this weekend, but alas, when I went out to see if I had any bubbling in the coolant yesterday...she now won't start at all. She cranks fine, has power, but won't start. It's gone from ****** running to not running at all out of the blue. So that being said, I'm back to square one now and have my mechanic coming on Wednesday to see if we can figure it out. Something is up...whether its a head gasket issue or something else...its definitely become a larger problem. I immediately panicked and thought I may have installed the fuel line wrong, but then recalled I had her out driving after the install without issue. I mean she ran rough like she has been, but she ran and drove. Wasn't until yesterday morning that suddenly she just won't start.
When I look at the inventory of issues addressed, I'm out of ideas
New carb
New plugs
New distributor and rotor
New wires
New starter
New fuel filter
New fuel line
New fuel
New fuel tank
New oil and oil filter
New fuel pump
New battery
New selonoid
New ignition coil
Point is, I'm out of ideas at this point, especially since it went back to not starting at all. So I have a pro coming next week to give her the once over. We shall see where that nets out. It's frustrating to not have it running, especially after I had her dialed in for awhile. Now it's back to just sitting there....f'ing irritating.
Anyway, enjoy the feasts and the holiday gang. I'll update ya'll next week when I know the deal.
Speaking of which, my intent was to spend the weekend tinkering away on it with my pops who's visiting this weekend, but alas, when I went out to see if I had any bubbling in the coolant yesterday...she now won't start at all. She cranks fine, has power, but won't start. It's gone from ****** running to not running at all out of the blue. So that being said, I'm back to square one now and have my mechanic coming on Wednesday to see if we can figure it out. Something is up...whether its a head gasket issue or something else...its definitely become a larger problem. I immediately panicked and thought I may have installed the fuel line wrong, but then recalled I had her out driving after the install without issue. I mean she ran rough like she has been, but she ran and drove. Wasn't until yesterday morning that suddenly she just won't start.
When I look at the inventory of issues addressed, I'm out of ideas
New carb
New plugs
New distributor and rotor
New wires
New starter
New fuel filter
New fuel line
New fuel
New fuel tank
New oil and oil filter
New fuel pump
New battery
New selonoid
New ignition coil
Point is, I'm out of ideas at this point, especially since it went back to not starting at all. So I have a pro coming next week to give her the once over. We shall see where that nets out. It's frustrating to not have it running, especially after I had her dialed in for awhile. Now it's back to just sitting there....f'ing irritating.
Anyway, enjoy the feasts and the holiday gang. I'll update ya'll next week when I know the deal.
Hope you all had a great thanksgiving. I have a question / theory that I came across yesterday and because neither myself, nor my pops (who came to visit for the holiday) are carburetor experts, he suggested I throw it out to you guys.
Him and I went out to tinker with the car and possibly continue the diagnosis of why she suddenly won't start, but cranks. We checked all connections and everything, did a top to bottom, and then tried giving her a start so he could see what was going on. So, I got in the car, tried starting her and she just cranked. He went under the hood and adjusted the flange on the carb and she started...roughly...but started....I rev'd her a couple times and then when he let go, she choked out. Now...that does say that the carb certainly seems to be in need of an adjustment..which could be causing the issue, however, he is the main thing we came across.
I'm aware that when you are holding the carb open and rev'ing her, you're going to get spurts of gas. However, when he was holding it open, and I rev'd her...he said gas was "flowing out and over" from the carb...like a lot of gas. overflowing up and out with each rev. Not a spurt, but alot. So we went back in and found some videos on carb adjustment and float adjustment to regulate fuel flow. It seems pretty technical, but I can probably figure it out with the proper spec sheets.
Now here's the theory that we came up with, but again, we may be way off base and I'd like your thoughts.
When I put the new carb in, I didn't do any adjustments...she ran fine. However as I ran her longer over the months, I know those old fuel lines, filter and tank were probably full of crap and clogged. She started running rough. It was getting fuel, but not cleanly or in the right amounts. Now that I have all clear and clean fuel lines, along with clean fuel and fuel filter, is it possible that the clear fuel flow is pushing too much gas into the carb and flooding it causing it to choke out? Hence the overflow of fuel? If thats the case then I assume, based on the videos I watched that I would need to not only adjust the carb settings, but I would also have to open an adjust the float inside to ensure that its not allowing too much fuel in?
That's our theory. Does that seem realistic and we're onto something? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? It seems like it makes sense...the car was running rough and stalling because of clogged lines and the carb was just managing to make it work enough to run. Now that there are no blockages and it has a clear path, its getting a pure flow and too much fuel is coming through to the carb causing it to flood and choke out.
Now again, this all may still be a moot point and it could be a head gasket. I was not able to do the compression test because I can't get her to start and stay running. So I am now backtracking to the carb as a starting point. At the end of the day, she is getting gas. She has spark. She has power. After all of the things I've done on her, I can only think of carb settings and head gasket as being the remaining culprits.
Anyway, pops and I wanted to see if anyone had thoughts on our hypothesis. I don't know much about carbs and or adjusting them, but I'm doing the research.
-PBR
Him and I went out to tinker with the car and possibly continue the diagnosis of why she suddenly won't start, but cranks. We checked all connections and everything, did a top to bottom, and then tried giving her a start so he could see what was going on. So, I got in the car, tried starting her and she just cranked. He went under the hood and adjusted the flange on the carb and she started...roughly...but started....I rev'd her a couple times and then when he let go, she choked out. Now...that does say that the carb certainly seems to be in need of an adjustment..which could be causing the issue, however, he is the main thing we came across.
I'm aware that when you are holding the carb open and rev'ing her, you're going to get spurts of gas. However, when he was holding it open, and I rev'd her...he said gas was "flowing out and over" from the carb...like a lot of gas. overflowing up and out with each rev. Not a spurt, but alot. So we went back in and found some videos on carb adjustment and float adjustment to regulate fuel flow. It seems pretty technical, but I can probably figure it out with the proper spec sheets.
Now here's the theory that we came up with, but again, we may be way off base and I'd like your thoughts.
When I put the new carb in, I didn't do any adjustments...she ran fine. However as I ran her longer over the months, I know those old fuel lines, filter and tank were probably full of crap and clogged. She started running rough. It was getting fuel, but not cleanly or in the right amounts. Now that I have all clear and clean fuel lines, along with clean fuel and fuel filter, is it possible that the clear fuel flow is pushing too much gas into the carb and flooding it causing it to choke out? Hence the overflow of fuel? If thats the case then I assume, based on the videos I watched that I would need to not only adjust the carb settings, but I would also have to open an adjust the float inside to ensure that its not allowing too much fuel in?
That's our theory. Does that seem realistic and we're onto something? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? It seems like it makes sense...the car was running rough and stalling because of clogged lines and the carb was just managing to make it work enough to run. Now that there are no blockages and it has a clear path, its getting a pure flow and too much fuel is coming through to the carb causing it to flood and choke out.
Now again, this all may still be a moot point and it could be a head gasket. I was not able to do the compression test because I can't get her to start and stay running. So I am now backtracking to the carb as a starting point. At the end of the day, she is getting gas. She has spark. She has power. After all of the things I've done on her, I can only think of carb settings and head gasket as being the remaining culprits.
Anyway, pops and I wanted to see if anyone had thoughts on our hypothesis. I don't know much about carbs and or adjusting them, but I'm doing the research.
-PBR
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When you said "he held the flange open", do you mean the choke? If you manually open the choke plate that will allow the maximum amount of air in and might have compensated for the extra fuel being dumped into the carb. That would explain why it started and ran when he did that. All of the junk in the fuel lines should have been caught by the filter but if some got past it could be holding the needle and seat open causing the carb to flood. I would start by trying to flush that all out and see how she starts and runs from there. After that I would adjust the mixture as necessary, you won't be able to get a good setting if there is debris hanging something up in there.
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PBR you may want to look inside the fuel bowl to see if it has any trash in the bowl. As previously stated by tpj71mach the trash could have gotten inside the fuel bowl to cause idle and starting and running issues.
tkelley72
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I had a similar problem with my car (except for the excess fuel issue) after sitting for an extended period of time without driving it. It would idle with the choke engaged but would stall the minute the choke came off or I put it in gear. I spent weeks messing around with float adjustments, idle adjustments, and replacing the needle and seats. None fixed the problem. After several recommendations that I should do a rebuild, and with the guidance of some members I did just that. What I found upon disassembly is still unexplained. All of the air/fuel passages in the primary metering block were clogged up with a "graphite" looking powdery substance that no one that I have spoken to has seen in the past. I still don't know what it was? However, I cleaned everything out with carb cleaner, blew it out with compressed air and reassembled with new gaskets, made the necessary carb adjustments and the problem went away. I've included photo's of what was in mine. How that stuff got in there and didn't clog up the filter is anyone's guess. I had never done a rebuild before but it really isn't that difficult. Just take lots of photo's before and during disassembly if you decide to take that path. Good luck.
