1996 460 vs 1972 460

[Luke]

As I know less than 0 about 460s appreciate some help.

On the floor of a local haulage firm is a 1996 model EFI 460 out of an f series and under the bench out the back is a 460 out of I am told a 72 tbird. If a bloke could grab one for beer money what one would be best and why. What should I be looking for codes etc.

Thanks in advance

 

[Kermit 460]

The older the better. The dove heads are a nice find , the newer ones are choked back in timing , intake and exhaust flow. I think 72 might be the last year for the good ones , if not even earlier . There's a few other members that"ve been playing with 460"s longer than me that would know for sure.

 

[TommyK]

72 was the only year that used an open chamber head design. They are the worst factory 460 head which is why they were one year only. Depending on the piston (flat top or dish) you can bolt on a pair of small chamber C8, C9 or D0VE heads or D3 large chamber heads and have a good platform for a street performance engine.

The 1996 EFI 460 heads have unique intake and exhaust port configurations which mean most aftermarket bolt on's don't match up. Again you can bolt on a set on small chamber or large chamber heads depending on desired compression ratio and have a good platform for a street performance engine.

If a big stoker crank is in the future I would opt for the 1996 engine which uses the D9 series block. These have longer cylinders which provide better support for the piston at the bottom of the stoke but this is not absolutely critical.

 

[cobra3073]

72 was the only year that used an open chamber head design. They are the worst factory 460 head which is why they were one year only. Depending on the piston (flat top or dish) you can bolt on a pair of small chamber C8, C9 or D0VE heads or D3 large chamber heads and have a good platform for a street performance engine.

The 1996 EFI 460 heads have unique intake and exhaust port configurations which mean most aftermarket bolt on's don't match up. Again you can bolt on a set on small chamber or large chamber heads depending on desired compression ratio and have a good platform for a street performance engine.

If a big stoker crank is in the future I would opt for the 1996 engine which uses the D9 series block. These have longer cylinders which provide better support for the piston at the bottom of the stoke but this is not absolutely critical.

What Tommy said!

Keep in mind that "better" really comes down to your intended usage. There is a LOT of after market support out there for the LIMA motors now.

...my $.02.

BT

 

[MotoArts]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one of the main difference between the D9 blocked EFI engines and the older ones are the cranks. And yes, the heads have different bolt patterns and ports.

One crank is (may be?) internally balanced, one is external.

I'm under the impression that they are not interchangeable, as in you must have the correct flywheel and balancer for the crank. May or may not be interchangeable in the blocks, too (as in EFI crank in old block won't work, etc.).

It's been a while since I read up on the differences. I have one of each engine. The old block is already built, and the D9 is a shortblock, but neither are here for me to look at and compare.

Cylinder/crank webbing in the D9 is the most substantial (thickest) of the production blocks.

 

[TommyK]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one of the main difference between the D9 blocked EFI engines and the older ones are the cranks. And yes, the heads have different bolt patterns and ports.

One crank is (may be?) internally balanced, one is external.

I'm under the impression that they are not interchangeable, as in you must have the correct flywheel and balancer for the crank. May or may not be interchangeable in the blocks, too (as in EFI crank in old block won't work, etc.).

It's been a while since I read up on the differences. I have one of each engine. The old block is already built, and the D9 is a shortblock, but neither are here for me to look at and compare.

Cylinder/crank webbing in the D9 is the most substantial (thickest) of the production blocks.

Pre 1979 = internal balance

1979 and up = external balance

A rotating assembly from a D9 Block will fit in an early block but an early (internally balanced) rotating assembly will not fit a D9 block without clearancing.

Actually the D9 blocks are considered thin wall castings. D0VE blocks are the most desirable with thicker main webs.

 

[Luke]

So in short neither engine is that good of a start if I was to consider keeping it. May just grap 1 and flip it for a few hundred bucks its worth an hours work

Lima engine ?? Like I said no knowledge of big ford engines started reading a bit about 428 429s for a mystery mercury hunt that I intend to follow up in about 2 weeks.

Thanks guys happy for you to take me to school on all thinks bbf

 

[cobra3073]

So in short neither engine is that good of a start if I was to consider keeping it. May just grap 1 and flip it for a few hundred bucks its worth an hours work

Lima engine ?? Like I said no knowledge of big ford engines started reading a bit about 428 429s for a mystery mercury hunt that I intend to follow up in about 2 weeks.

Thanks guys happy for you to take me to school on all thinks bbf

Yes Luke, Ford engines are often identified by "families."

The 428 (along with the 332, 352, 352HP, 360, 390, 390HP, 406, 410, 427, 428CJ and 428SCJ) are in the "FE" family.

The Ford 370, 429 and 460 motors are in the "385" family and are sometime referred to as "Lima" motors based on their having been built at Ford's Lima, Ohio plant.

It is like Clevelands falling into the "335" family.

Hope this helps.

BT

 

[MotoArts]

So in short neither engine is that good of a start if I was to consider keeping it. May just grap 1 and flip it for a few hundred bucks its worth an hours work

Quite the opposite... I'd grab 'em both if they're a killer package deal.

Depending on internal condition, I might flip the EFI and keep the early one if it were me. Maybe even keep the EFI heads for 2 fishing boat anchors...

 

[Luke]

Thanks Guys starting to learn something now. If and it's a very big if I grabbed the D9 block and had a target figure of around 600 ftlb of torque,don't need to be massive HP.what heads, manifold, carb what displacement stroker crank etc. wouldn't need to be a race combo just a reliable low maintenance budget (not cheap) torque monster. I know it's a how long is a piece of string question but I am interested in how easily achievable this would be.

Been in a 68 delta 88 coupe with a Joe Mondello built 455 it had a bit over 530ftlb and it was a hoot destroying tyres at will and black tracking past late models performance cars as you overtake at hi way speeds and 600 sounds like a good number to me

 

[hyena429]

A newer 460 block should be tuffer than older one.....The later 460 is considered by most to be a reliable, long-lasting, heavy-duty, and powerful engine for towing and hauling purposes, as well as a good starting point for engine builders building dragsters.

We ran into the same thing when tring to build a 750 hp 454 for my buds drag car...He had a classic 1972 chevy big block..And was told by all the engine builders too bad it was not a newer 454 block from 80's on up...We was like..wasnt they the lowest hp version with crappy heads? They said yup..But the blocks are much better webbed ..they learned alot about casting sence...they make them lighter and stronger....From what i know...All the newer blocks are tuffer than the old ones."for the most part".......I would use the newer block with aftermarket heads and ditch the EFI stuff.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2004/04/460Build/ Ford muscle building a budget build 460 from a 1996 block from a rv.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_1009_834hp_429_boss_ford_engine_build/ 834hp d9 block build

 

[kblackav8or]

Here is a good site on 385 series engines.

http://www.460ford.com/forum/

 

[VegasFastback]

So in short neither engine is that good of a start if I was to consider keeping it. May just grap 1 and flip it for a few hundred bucks its worth an hours work

Lima engine ?? Like I said no knowledge of big ford engines started reading a bit about 428 429s for a mystery mercury hunt that I intend to follow up in about 2 weeks.

Thanks guys happy for you to take me to school on all thinks bbf

Yes Luke, Ford engines are often identified by "families."

The 428 (along with the 332, 352, 352HP, 360, 390, 390HP, 406, 410, 427, 428CJ and 428SCJ) are in the "FE" family.

The Ford 370, 429 and 460 motors are in the "385" family and are sometime referred to as "Lima" motors based on their having been built at Ford's Lima, Ohio plant.

It is like Clevelands falling into the "335" family.

Hope this helps.

BT

One thing that confuses things is that the 335 and 385 engines are cousins. You can swap the distributor and timing cover between the 460 and cleveland.

 

[TommyK]

So in short neither engine is that good of a start if I was to consider keeping it. May just grap 1 and flip it for a few hundred bucks its worth an hours work

Lima engine ?? Like I said no knowledge of big ford engines started reading a bit about 428 429s for a mystery mercury hunt that I intend to follow up in about 2 weeks.

Thanks guys happy for you to take me to school on all thinks bbf

Yes Luke, Ford engines are often identified by "families."

The 428 (along with the 332, 352, 352HP, 360, 390, 390HP, 406, 410, 427, 428CJ and 428SCJ) are in the "FE" family.

The Ford 370, 429 and 460 motors are in the "385" family and are sometime referred to as "Lima" motors based on their having been built at Ford's Lima, Ohio plant.

It is like Clevelands falling into the "335" family.

Hope this helps.

BT

One thing that confuses things is that the 335 and 385 engines are cousins. You can swap the distributor and timing cover between the 460 and cleveland.

I agree on the distributor but the timing covers are different.