Anemic 351-C 2V

[barnett468]

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the comp xe268h cam is newer technology and will work well but you are limited by your head flow.

i would not put a 4v intake on 2v heads without epoxying the inside of the 4v runners to match the shape of the 2v ones . . you can use "splash zone" for this but its a major pain to do.

when trhe aure from the intake rans into the edge of the head port because it is smaller than the intake port it will sebd the air sideways which will further reduce/obstruct the air flow.

 

[KT-69]

Barnett.....I will go out to my garage and fetch my 4V intake on Thursday its like zero degrees here now and windy to cold to venture out. You could correct the mismatch is way to much. However if I remember correctly the 4V intake ports are smaller than the 4V head ports. The old steel OEM manifold ports flare out larger near the end to match the 4V port size. My thoughts were to fill the intake port flare and grind to match the rest of the intake port (removing the flare). That was my thought...I have never used splash zone or epoxy in the past. My concern with these fillers are what is the chance of a piece breaking off and getting down into the head and cylinder?

I have also been told that an Edelbrock 4V performer 4V intake is nearly an exact match to a 351-C 2V head port. As Edelbrock made both 2V and 4V intake ports smaller than the corresponding heads to increase flow velocity. Which totally defies how the 4V 351-C was designed.

Personally I like both port sizes close to same size.

The Blue Thunder intake had the large ports all the way from the carb plenum to the end of the intake ports to match the 4V head ports (no flare).

Also a cavity or small step in an intake promotes mixing that said to much and it becomes overly detrimental to the flow.

 

[Mister 4x4]

If you're wanting to maintain the factory Ram Air set-up, your options also are limited. Aside from being an Edelbrock fan, I chose the Performer carb & intake because they have the same height dimensions as the factory stuff. Add to that the Duraspark distributor, and the Ram Air air cleaner goes right back on with any kind of modification needed.

Hey, I love the 'no stripe' look on yours as well. I'm still on the fence with the hockey stripes - only because everybody seems to have them. Mine was originally a 'no stripe' car as well, but I sold the side moldings because the pieces from the fenders were missing (fenders were replaced/repaired, my guess).

Toss on some side pipes, add some aging to the picture, and throw in a skinny guy posin', and this could almost be the same picture.

 

[1-Mach-1]

I put the F 351 incarnation of the Edelbrock 2V to 4V intake on my 351C, way back in the olden times.

My 71 Mach-1 had headers on it when I bought the car, so I removed the old 2V carb and iron intake, then picked up the Edelbrock intake, and added a Holley carb, and a Ford dual point distributor I had on hand.

It woke up pretty good for the day, and is going again now after a long nap.

My mechanic added a modern electronic distributor, and a newer carb, and seemed to be impressed with what an old Cleveland can do after a long sleep.

New headers and pipes are in the works, now that all the mechanical things are redone.

 

[barnett468]

Barnett.....I will go out to my garage and fetch my 4V intake on Thursday its like zero degrees here now and windy to cold to venture out. You could correct the mismatch is way to much. However if I remember correctly the 4V intake ports are smaller than the 4V head ports. The old steel OEM manifold ports flare out larger near the end to match the 4V port size. My thoughts were to fill the intake port flare and grind to match the rest of the intake port (removing the flare). That was my thought...I have never used splash zone or epoxy in the past. My concern with these fillers are what is the chance of a piece breaking off and getting down into the head and cylinder?

I have also been told that an Edelbrock 4V performer 4V intake is nearly an exact match to a 351-C 2V head port. As Edelbrock made both 2V and 4V intake ports smaller than the corresponding heads to increase flow velocity. Which totally defies how the 4V 351-C was designed.

Personally I like both port sizes close to same size.

The Blue Thunder intake had the large ports all the way from the carb plenum to the end of the intake ports to match the 4V head ports (no flare).

Also a cavity or small step in an intake promotes mixing that said to much and it becomes overly detrimental to the flow.

not sure what you mean by a cavity but you can run a small intake port into a big head port but you should never run a big intake port into a small head port.

also that particular eddy intake should not be port msatched as it will adversely affect flow.

the port epoxy does not come off but i too have reservations about it and prefer not to use it unless there will be a significant benefit such as in this app, but hey, if some flakes off, at least its not metal, lol.

.

 

[KT-69]

Still to cold....maybe this weekend my garage is still like an ice box right now. Anyway Barnett your starting to convince me to let it go.... I'm leaning more now towards the Edelbrock and losing 30# up front. Now that it looks like I'll be keeping the 2V setup. Providing I can find one used reasonably cheap. I need to find the port specs for the 2V or 4V Edelbrock. I'll keep the 4V stock intake for when I upgrade to a 4V.

Definitely want to go with the ramair set-up it kind of defines the muscle car era.

Digging Mister 4x4 Stang that is just so traditional looking awesome job on maintaining the heritage and the look. I am with you on the hockey stripes I like them but they are very common. I always liked the 72 Stang lower body treatment best seemed slightly more understated.....simple yet effective Bullet like. I am definitely not so skinny looking nowadays.

 

[barnett468]

Still to cold....maybe this weekend my garage is still like an ice box right now. Anyway Barnett your starting to convince me to let it go.... I'm leaning more now towards the Edelbrock and losing 30# up front. Now that it looks like I'll be keeping the 2V setup. Providing I can find one used reasonably cheap. I need to find the port specs for the 2V or 4V Edelbrock. I'll keep the 4V stock intake for when I upgrade to a 4V.

Definitely want to go with the ramair set-up it kind of defines the muscle car era.

Digging Mister 4x4 Stang that is just so traditional looking awesome job on maintaining the heritage and the look. I am with you on the hockey stripes I like them but they are very common. I always liked the 72 Stang lower body treatment best seemed slightly more understated.....simple yet effective Bullet like. I am definitely not so skinny looking nowadays.

i would not run that xe268 cam with a 2v intake . . i would buy a 4v intake designed for 2v heads . . it will work fine.

.

 

[KT-69]

OK cost is $150 to deck my 2V OC heads. Going that route plan to go around .030" then use the .030" rocker shims. 3 angle valves, 4V rockers, lifters, ARP, something similar to Comp 268 cam (I hear to much bad cam break-in issues from Comp). Go with the CAM manufacture springs.

Goal is something around 9.5:1 compression. Might be to much for the Comp 268 grind so will look at a custom grind.

Performer intake 4V (port matched) or 2V performer with a 650 cfm 4V carb. Like to go spread bore have to check if the performer will support one? Otherwise keep searching for a manifold.

Any manifold advice?

 

[Mikes73]

An Edelbrock RPM airgap would probably work pretty well, I know mine does on my 2v cleveland. Oops, nevermind just read about you wanting to run ram air.

 

[Mister 4x4]

I think the difference in port sizes between the 2V and 4V is negligible, really - you're already "technically" changing over from 2V to 4V by installing an intake manifold that will support a 4bbl carb... the port sizes remain the only difference at that point.

Opening up the intake ports on the heads [to adapt to 4V intake] will increase intake flow, but unless you make appropriate adjustments to the exhaust ports, there might be something of a bottleneck now. I always thought the best rule of thumb was exhaust should bigger than intake.

For the sake of economy (which I believe was one of your concerns), I would go with the head work you described, sans intake port enlargement, get an Edelbrock Performer 2V intake and 600-650 carb(that set-up will support Ram Air), and then work out any ignition and exhaust issues you might have (all of that aside from the cam choice, of course).

The 4V set-up is a high-revver and makes lots of power. The 2V set-up properly equipped will start making torque lower in the power band than a similarly equipped 4V, and continue to make power - just not with as much top-end rpms (I believe 5700 is a good redline for the 2V). I'm not saying the 2V is a better or more powerful set-up than 4V, just different and can potentially delivery similar power when properly equipped.

I don't believe there's any reason to spend the money converting over to a 4V set-up for a street engine that's a daily driver with some spirited driving mixed in, when for somewhat less money (and not having to re-purchase some things: headers, intake, etc.), a 2V can deliver plenty of power, all-the-while still on pump gas.

Just my opinion.

 

[barnett468]

OK cost is $150 to deck my 2V OC heads. Going that route plan to go around .030" then use the .030" rocker shims. 3 angle valves, 4V rockers, lifters, ARP, something similar to Comp 268 cam (I hear to much bad cam break-in issues from Comp). Go with the CAM manufacture springs.

Goal is something around 9.5:1 compression. Might be to much for the Comp 268 grind so will look at a custom grind.

Performer intake 4V (port matched) or 2V performer with a 650 cfm 4V carb. Like to go spread bore have to check if the performer will support one? Otherwise keep searching for a manifold.

Any manifold advice?

$150.00 is a bleepin rip off for 15 or 20 minutes of actual work . . it should be $45.00 per head at the most and i live in the high rent district in so calif!

9.5 compression is absolutley not too much for the xe268 cam . . who in the world told you that?

you absolutely need a 4v intake to optimize the potential of that particular cam . . if it was an xe 256 than a 2v with a big carb would be fine.

the eddy 2v/4v intake is fine if you like it.

there are no problems with comp cams, the prob is with the break in technique . . people that have no idea how to break in a flat tappet cam PROPERLY that kill their cam wrongly blame the prob on the cam instead of their own inexperience and mistake.

comp probably sells 30 cams to every 1 that lunati or crane sells so obviously you would hear more problems with them simply by virtue of the fact that they have more cams out there.

i would not buy comp lifters though.

.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Honestly, with the friction reducing properties of roller cams (lifters, rockers, etc.), why would anybody want to go with flat tappets? It's all internal, and if roller will eliminate friction (and thus reduce temperature and free up a few ponies), I don't get the draw to sticking with flat tappets other than to maintain stock configuration.

And what's wrong with CompCams lifters, anyway?

(Not trying to pick a fight... just curious)

 

[barnett468]

Honestly, with the friction reducing properties of roller cams (lifters, rockers, etc.), why would anybody want to go with flat tappets? It's all internal, and if roller will eliminate friction (and thus reduce temperature and free up a few ponies), I don't get the draw to sticking with flat tappets other than to maintain stock configuration.

And what's wrong with CompCams lifters, anyway?

(Not trying to pick a fight... just curious)

ok, where do i start lol? . . first of all, i have been a comp cam dealer since nearly the first day they started business and have used a zillion of their cams and have only had one cam failure in 40 years which was clearly caused by using valvoline oil which had most of the zddp removed but they never stated so on the bottle so for the record i am not a comp hater in the least.

some of their standard lifter types often make a ticking noise . . this can occasionally be cured by setting the preload to only 3/8 of a turn like some limited travel lifters [morels are set to .005"].

lots of their lifters implode internally.

i quit selling their lifters because i would get yelled at of the things grenaded.

they sent me a set of solid lifters that looked like they were surfaced on a bench grinder . . i returned them and the others looked exactky the same so i bought cranes which had used before and of course they were like a mirror like finish and if course they never ever tick . . crane went out of biz but the nrew owner is selling left over inventory . . they made their own lifters and the new owners or someone now has the lifter mfg machines but they do not make any.

i installed a set of new basic comp rollers in a a concourse show engine and it had a huge lifter tick so i carefully took it apart, started it up sand the b;eepin lifter squirted oil 3 feet high...nice.

 

[KT-69]

Looks like a performer intake....however not many used on ebay so may have to rethink. Wanted to go 650 CFm Holley however all of those used on eBay are Gm spreadbore type which does not fit the performer intake. Lots of 600 cfm's square bores used for less than $65.

Comp Cams ....I have a comp cam in my 69 351-C with Chi-3V heads. I have not fired it up yet. Since I purchased it I have herd nothing but bad news with many washed cams on start-up. News is Comp is using made in China cams without any surface treatment to help the zddp form a protective layer. I am now very leary looking at other brands. Herd nothing but bad bad news on the comp lifters definitely sound like China made.

As for lifters the cost of the rollers just makes me cringe. Bring the cost down where it is more comparative and I would be on them. That said when it comes to 351-C 4V I like the old FORD factory flat tappet grinds best they had good wide power band. Ford knew how to make the 4V heads work start messing with it and you end up with a low end dog. I know what works for the 4V and do not want to mess with it. The 69 is my first time using 3V heads it is an experiment. For 2V completely different and I have no past experience this will my first.

 

[barnett468]

Comp Cams ....I have a comp cam in my 69 351-C with Chi-3V heads. I have not fired it up yet. Since I purchased it I have herd nothing but bad news with many washed cams on start-up. News is Comp is using made in China cams without any surface treatment to help the zddp form a protective layer. I am now very leary looking at other brands. Herd nothing but bad bad news on the comp lifters definitely sound like China made.

As for lifters the cost of the rollers just makes me cringe. Bring the cost down where it is more comparative and I would be on them. That said when it comes to 351-C 4V I like the old FORD factory flat tappet grinds best they had good wide power band. Ford knew how to make the 4V heads work start messing with it and you end up with a low end dog. I know what works for the 4V and do not want to mess with it. The 69 is my first time using 3V heads it is an experiment. For 2V completely different and I have no past experience this will my first.

some comp lifters are made in india not china.

comp does not get cam cores from china, last i knew they get them from one of the two places in the us that supply ALL the cores to most of the cam "companies" . . yup, most all of them come from just one of 2 places.

comp cams fail during break in primarily because they are broken in incorrectly, its that simple then the yahoo that broke it in incorrectly blames comp because it is easier.

you can buy good us made oem type roller lifters from elgin for only $112.

 

[KT-69]

Holley 80457 Carb 600 CFM vacuum secondaries with electric choke on its way along with an Edelbrock 4V performer intake both through Ebay for very low cost. Carb will need a clean and rebuild. Wanted a 650 but all on ebay were spreadbores. i will prot metach the Eldelbrock performer 4V to my 2V heads after the .030" shave. Now for new 2V valves and a cam kit.

Took the Stang out for drive finally a warm winter day to the local car wash. It is a rattle trap windows rattling at every bump in the road, pulls to the right, play in the steering, RH rear brake locks up and sequels if I try to stop quickly, entire car vibrates and jiggles. Can not imagine anyone actually driving around in such a piece of crap. Gave engine and under body a very good high pressure wash down. Ready to tear into it now. Shifter handle has play in it. When I get on it throttle response is good but it soon tops out and just makes noise a total dog. Got my work cut out to transform this turd into a true muscle car.

 

[jpaz]

I just got the Performer 4V intake & a Holley Street Avenger carb. I have to add a 1" spacer for the throttle linkage to clear one of the intake runners. I don't have ram air, so I'm not sure about clearance issues.

 

[KT-69]

I plan to use ram air that will be interesting to see how it all matches up. Like to run at least a 1" spacer also I suspect that may require some type of air cleaner modifications.

 

[jpaz]

I've seen a few cars with aftermarket intakes & carbs with the ram air units. I just don't know how they made it fit. I'm sure someone on this forum has done this. I also want to notch out the divider wall like they do on the Air Gap intakes. Hope you figure it out.

 

[Manu Mach1]

I try to add a 1" spacer, choosing the thin as possible air filter I could found, but no way, the hood touched the top cover air filter. I do not have ram air.

Hope this helps.