Aussie Clevo info

[Luke]

Good Stuff Chuck thanks for the link. SCE heads and Manifold's or great parts

No worries Lars, that exhuast system should be a real good thing and make some really great noise from it. I'm Just blown away with the amount of Cleveland stuff that has come out in the last 10 years. Before that we were pretty limited to what was around for them, like I remember the guy I was working for back 12 years ago, he got a pair of Robert Yeates signature series CNC'd heads and there was not much change out of $10000. Now days you can buy a set of CHI heads that will outflow and have way better air speed and velocity for less than half the price. Still back then it was still great beating the Chevy guys, with their aftermarket parts (heads, blocks, cranks etc) with factory Cleveland stuff.

I was about 17 and I remember looking at my Chev heads just after a bit of a port job and looking at the stock 4V on the bench and thinking f#ck they got some big holes in those ford heads lol

 

[4Vforever]

Yeah Luke I was about the same age, just a young dumb apprentice and this guy comes into the shop with these heads with monster ports. I knew they were ford by the look of the chamber, I asked the guy if they were some kind of racing head or something. The guy looks at me weird and says, no mate stock 4V's off my GT. Couldn't believe the size of the ports in these things. I said to my boss, how awesome these heads looked, he said yeah they look impressive, but then told me about their problems of the huge ports and how guys back in the day would "neck" down the ports in order make them work better and increase velocity. They definitely made an impression on me because after that because I looked at the Cleveland engine in a whole different light.


Good article there Chuck, thanks for putting it up. I remember hearing and reading about Tod Buttermore at least 5 years ago doing these blocks. Quite a few guys here in Australia were extremely keen for these and I think a few put their money where the mouth is too, but apparently there were problems with them and the last I heard (a couple of years ago) he was still working out the bugs. It looks like he's got it sorted out now and good on him if he has. As for the Scott Cook stuff, very well made and a great product. When I was working for that guy years ago that use to and still does run some very fast Cleveland stuff, he was given a couple of pair of some of the very first CHI heads made. The numbers he got out of them back then were incredible and I remember him saying to me back then, how great these things were and for the price it would make people think twice about clevo's. He was absolutely correct, because the amount of tuff Cleveland's, both on the street and strip is amazing. I suppose that's the thing here in Australia, a lot of people have been building, racing and developing Clevelands for a long time. A few guys that started out doing them for Ford Aus for their racing program are still playing around with them today, some 44 years + later.

 

[DK73]

Hi 4Vforever yes there is a lot now on the market[emoji6] Which is a good thing that it's now possible! Yes I hope that the engine is going to sound bad as[emoji9][emoji41] Regards Lars DK73

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Regards DK73

 

[c9zx]

My introduction to Cleveland heads came from rebuilding my Boss 302 in late 1972. I was amazed at the valve and port size. My god would that car fly on the big end. I sold it due to a non-USA posting. Since then I've done some more B2s and several 351Cs. I'm still impressed with the flow numbers of the stock 4V iron heads. Are there better aftermarket heads, yes, but not at the price point that the stockers can be built for. And the stockers don't require special intake and exhaust fitment. I'm starting on a set of stockers and got the untouched flow numbers yesterday, 281/172 cfm @ .600. We'll see where we go from there. Chuck

 

[DK73]

Hi Chuck yes you are right on whit the iron heads[emoji6] why I don't have them was because of the fact that the were not possible to rebuild them. So wee bought the CHI 4V which has the best of both sides of the 2V and 4V Heads. That whas as a better looking whit the Mach 1 system a perfekt Match[WINKING FACE]Regards Lars DK73

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Regards DK73

 

[4Vforever]

Absolutely agree 100% about standard cast iron cleveland heads, be it 2V or 4V. The 2V heads have been made to produce some awesome power too, but the main problem with the 2V's is the short side on the intake side can run very thin and have seen a few that have hit water jackets in that area. Remember the old "trick" of putting 4V valves in 2V heads, the biggest problem in doing that is the cross sectional area is not adequate for the application, a valve size of 2.07 works best for the intake. Meanwhile the exhaust port is quite good on a 2V head and just requires a bit of work on the short side radius and using a 4V valve, but apparently the 2V size works quite fine. As for the 4V, they are just the best stock small block head ever made. As for open or closed chamber, well that depends on what you're actually wanting from the engine. A closed chamber you can make a pretty good shape from them that will work quite well and that's the big advantage they have over opens.As they guy I worked for once said to me, if cast iron welding wasn't so expensive, he'd like to weld up a set of 2V valved open chamber 4V's and shape the chambers to exactly how he wanted too, use a 2.08-2.1 intake valve and the 4V exhaust valve and with the intake floors raised with the alloy tongues and port plates in the exhaust port and with his port work. He reckoned they would be the best factory cast iron heads ever. Both 4V open or closed chamber can both be made to make some pretty decent power. I have built some pretty decent engines using either type of head and that was back then (been out of the game for over 10 years) on different types of fuels, be it pump, C16 or methanol. But if I was looking to make from open chambered 4V's, well give me the 73-74 small valve ones any day of the week. I only built one real performance engine with those small valve 4V heads, that were done up by said guy and all I can say is, that engine shut quite a few of the doubters up. Makes good power and torque, idles well, great street manners and never had any detonation issues and it's still going strong after all these years (12-13) of normal driving, light to light runs, a few Powercruise's and a bit of quarter mile action. When I caught up with him a little while ago, he still thanks me for talking him into keeping his heads and not going out to get a set of closed chambers. The engine has about 40 000kms/25 000 miles on it and has been trouble free (the engine itself) in all that time. And people still knock these heads.

 

[Luke]

Absolutely agree 100% about standard cast iron cleveland heads, be it 2V or 4V. The 2V heads have been made to produce some awesome power too, but the main problem with the 2V's is the short side on the intake side can run very thin and have seen a few that have hit water jackets in that area. Remember the old "trick" of putting 4V valves in 2V heads, the biggest problem in doing that is the cross sectional area is not adequate for the application, a valve size of 2.07 works best for the intake. Meanwhile the exhaust port is quite good on a 2V head and just requires a bit of work on the short side radius and using a 4V valve, but apparently the 2V size works quite fine. As for the 4V, they are just the best stock small block head ever made. As for open or closed chamber, well that depends on what you're actually wanting from the engine. A closed chamber you can make a pretty good shape from them that will work quite well and that's the big advantage they have over opens.As they guy I worked for once said to me, if cast iron welding wasn't so expensive, he'd like to weld up a set of 2V valved open chamber 4V's and shape the chambers to exactly how he wanted too, use a 2.08-2.1 intake valve and the 4V exhaust valve and with the intake floors raised with the alloy tongues and port plates in the exhaust port and with his port work. He reckoned they would be the best factory cast iron heads ever. Both 4V open or closed chamber can both be made to make some pretty decent power. I have built some pretty decent engines using either type of head and that was back then (been out of the game for over 10 years) on different types of fuels, be it pump, C16 or methanol. But if I was looking to make from open chambered 4V's, well give me the 73-74 small valve ones any day of the week. I only built one real performance engine with those small valve 4V heads, that were done up by said guy and all I can say is, that engine shut quite a few of the doubters up. Makes good power and torque, idles well, great street manners and never had any detonation issues and it's still going strong after all these years (12-13) of normal driving, light to light runs, a few Powercruise's and a bit of quarter mile action. When I caught up with him a little while ago, he still thanks me for talking him into keeping his heads and not going out to get a set of closed chambers. The engine has about 40 000kms/25 000 miles on it and has been trouble free (the engine itself) in all that time. And people still knock these heads.

Jason I think you have just made a sound argument for practical knowledge,experience and correct application for purpose Vs ingrained ********. Of course the open chamber heads wont work like the closed in race applications, But 99% don't run REAL race engines on the street. If you are honest with your intent then you will get the desired outcome, you would know all this better than me mate because it was your living. Good info Jason

 

[4Vforever]

Exactly right Luke, the amount of people who read BS in books like street machine and some of these so called "performance" mags, then come down to your shop and tell you how this and that is going to work in their engine, because they read it in the latest whatever mag they just read is mind boggling. Then you get the guys whose "mates" tell them they should be using this part or whatever other BS they come up with, then you ask whose their mate and what he does, they just usually end up being another know all know F all that reads these mags too. Usually the best things people come in with are cams that they are told to use in their engine. I mean we're talking cams with like 250-260 deg at .050 over .600 thou lift with ridiculous overlap on their 9.00:1 comp engines, then these tosses tell you that I don't know what I'm on about when you try telling them that cam won't work in their engine and why. Another good one is flow numbers off the bench, they're told their heads will flow 600hp or something stupid and apparently that's how much power it's going to make. You ask the dumb arses for the flow figures and they just tell you 600 and trying to explain what you want the figures for and they just look at you just as dumb and still say 600. Man I'm deadly serious, I could write a book (or 10) on the amount of dumb arses and stupid crap and the know it all F wits I've dealt with over the years I was in the trade, then you'd see exactly why I had enough of it. I never had a problem explaining something or helping someone that would listen to you or have an interest in what you were telling them, but as for the F wits and that includes some that I worked with, they're the main reason I walked away from the game. Anyhow that's enough for now as just thinking of these d**kheads is giving me the $h!t$.

 

[Luke]

Hehe it's easier say I don't know and then have somebody give you the good oil point you in the right direction and learn something. Then piss off the bloke your asking to build it. Years ago I used to hang about my mates engine shop and try to learn enough for my purpose. I would be buggering around on the bench out the back with my own gear. You had to laught at all the "I want a 12 second car that gets 19mpg and I don't want to have to touch it or tune it more than once a year lol that was when a 12 second street was evil. I seen him spend a lot of time with genuine people that knew what they wanted to achieve and how the car was going to be used and had realistic goals but no real idea how to achieve it.

I alway thought it was cool when they ended up going fast with factory iron especially some of the killer 308 combos or with the GTs the only non stock items where internals,a carb pipes sump and balancer. Not wild cars but very usable stout streeters they might not of run low ETs but you had to mind your manners around them on the street

 

[4Vforever]

Hahaha the old, I want a 11-12 sec street car but don't want it to use much more fuel crowd, they're nearly as funny as the my 202 does 12's in my LJ Torana and is pretty good on fuel crowd. You look under the bonnet of these "rockets" and be a Cain 2 barrel intake with a 350 holley, a set of extractors and sound of a mild cam in it, this was a period in the early to mid 90's and every time I'd hear this BS, I'd just shake my head and laugh. If anyone wanted to listen and learn I never had a problem with teaching them, but if they were *********, well that's how I'd treat them in return. But yeah using factory stuff and running good times is the best. Did it in my 308/331 stroker, old red heads and all, high 11's in a HJ Kingswood, but a lot of work and mucking about to get it there. But the best combos we use to do back in those days was a standard stroke 351, 2V Cleveland. Basically a stock balanced bottom end with ARP bolts in the rods and a set of TRW forged Pistons, with a cam we used to get ground based upon a Isky Z50 solid flat tappet, 2V closed chamber heads with 4V intake valves cut down to 2.12 and stock sized 4V exhaust valves, with the heads ported and chambers done to the way we did them back then (I'd laugh now if I saw heads like that now) springs to suit, a set of YT rollers, a Weiand X-cellerator intake with a little bit of radius work done, set of Pacemaker extractors, a reworked Holley 750-850 dp and a regraphed ford electronic dizzy with MSD 6A. With a crappy old (compared to today's) 5000 rpm convertor and a 9 inch with a set of 4.11's, these things would run mid 11's in full body Falcons, with a best time of 11.2 (if memory serves) It makes laugh today that such a simple engine like that ran the times they did, but I definitely wouldn't want to drive one on the street, especially with a toploader behind it.

 

[c9zx]

Short but good true story about the uninformed. A friend owned a speed shop. A customer wanted a bigger cam for his Oldsmobile. So Mike picks a cam and orders it. It arrives and the customer picks it up. The customer returns the next day very agitated. Mike asks "What is wrong?". The customer replies that "the new cam is no bigger than the old one". He then places both cams on the counter and says 'Look, I'll prove it to you." The customer then produced a tape measure and measured the length of the two cams and triumphantly exclaims "see I told you so". Mike couldn't respond for awhile because he was laughing so hard.

Chuck

 

[4Vforever]

Short but good true story about the uninformed. A friend owned a speed shop. A customer wanted a bigger cam for his Oldsmobile. So Mike picks a cam and orders it. It arrives and the customer picks it up. The customer returns the next day very agitated. Mike asks "What is wrong?". The customer replies that "the new cam is no bigger than the old one". He then places both cams on the counter and says 'Look, I'll prove it to you." The customer then produced a tape measure and measured the length of the two cams and triumphantly exclaims "see I told you so". Mike couldn't respond for awhile because he was laughing so hard.

Chuck

That's a cracker, never heard that one before (and I have heard some beauties) I would have been exactly like your friend and absolutely cracked up laughing too. As for the bigger cam issue,your friend should have hit him over the head with each one (with the lobe hitting his head) then said to the idiot, can you tell now, notice that the lobes are on this cam than that one. Some people?

 

[Luke]

Short but good true story about the uninformed. A friend owned a speed shop. A customer wanted a bigger cam for his Oldsmobile. So Mike picks a cam and orders it. It arrives and the customer picks it up. The customer returns the next day very agitated. Mike asks "What is wrong?". The customer replies that "the new cam is no bigger than the old one". He then places both cams on the counter and says 'Look, I'll prove it to you." The customer then produced a tape measure and measured the length of the two cams and triumphantly exclaims "see I told you so". Mike couldn't respond for awhile because he was laughing so hard.

Chuck

That is funny as hell great one Chuck

 

[DK73]

Haha that's so fony Chuck [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES][WINKING FACE]

Regards DK73