Best replacement fuel tank??
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I just got one from Don at OMS (Ohio Mustang Supply).
Go for the better tank - not the cheapest IMHO. Still comparable in price. And Don has helped me too many times for me to not buy from him. Always honest with me.
Ray
Go for the better tank - not the cheapest IMHO. Still comparable in price. And Don has helped me too many times for me to not buy from him. Always honest with me.
Ray
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Mesozoic
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FYI, you do not need an in-tank pump for a reliable EFI setup. You can simply add a return line to the tank and use an external high pressure pump, such as a Walbro GSL392, a 255 liter/hr pump commonly used for this sort of thing. These pumps do not run hot and do not require submersion in the tank either.
I suggest you check Robbmac in Nevada for their pumps for the 351c....they have pickups with returns also. Best you can get for the Cleveland
GonHuntin
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Thanks for the info…….I have read about Walbro pumps but have heard that there can be fuel starvation issues when running external pumps???
In your opinion, would an in tank pump be a better option if cost is not a consideration??
Since we are starting with a new tank, it's not really a big deal to cut the top, install internal baffles and weld in a plate to mount an in tank pump.
Mesozoic
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Personally, I've never encountered any fuel starvation myself, but that is largely a function of how well the pickup tube inside the tank is kept submerged in fuel. While many stock vehicles come with in-tank pumps and I believe the reasoning for this is in reduction of pump noise, possibly pump cooling, and reduced cost (no need to spend much time designing baffles and sumps), the effectiveness of in-tank vs inline is a long standing debate.
All things considered, it's far more convenient to be able to service the pump and attached filters without having to remove the tank. Wiring is also simpler when the pump is external. I've been running an inline high pressure Walbro for years and drive like a maniac. Very reliable setup with the Walbro.
Here's a few shots of how I setup the external inline pump on my '71. Note that the tank is sumped and that is where the inlet and outlet for the main pump feed and return are plumbed. The pump is mounted in front of the tank using 1/8" aluminum brackets. There is a gentleman on Pirate4x4.com named "carslut" that manufactures nice Walbro pump brackets (seen here). Also note that the pump is iso-mounted using rubber isolators.
All things considered, it's far more convenient to be able to service the pump and attached filters without having to remove the tank. Wiring is also simpler when the pump is external. I've been running an inline high pressure Walbro for years and drive like a maniac. Very reliable setup with the Walbro.
Here's a few shots of how I setup the external inline pump on my '71. Note that the tank is sumped and that is where the inlet and outlet for the main pump feed and return are plumbed. The pump is mounted in front of the tank using 1/8" aluminum brackets. There is a gentleman on Pirate4x4.com named "carslut" that manufactures nice Walbro pump brackets (seen here). Also note that the pump is iso-mounted using rubber isolators.
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The manufacturer of my efi system recommends the return line vice PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) systems. Using return style systems with external pumps don't encounter the vapor lock/fuel starvation issues you are describing.
For the 73 I used the vapor rtn line for the fuel return. It avoided the gas tank modifications that's needed for an in tank pump. All I had to do was to add the fuel regulator for the fuel line return to the tank. I guess its comes down to how much performance mods you are going to make to the motor. Just my thoughts here.
-jbojo
The manufacturer of my efi system recommends the return line vice PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) systems. Using return style systems with external pumps don't encounter the vapor lock/fuel starvation issues you are describing.
For the 73 I used the vapor rtn line for the fuel return. It avoided the gas tank modifications that's needed for an in tank pump. All I had to do was to add the fuel regulator for the fuel line return to the tank. I guess its comes down to how much performance mods you are going to make to the motor. Just my thoughts here.
-jbojo
Mesozoic
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I think the vapor return line on the '71 might be too small diameter to function well with a high volume pump like a Walbro GSL392 (255 liter/hr). Another very simple way to add a return line is to modify the stock sending unit to accomodate a return port. The return line is low pressure, so no specialized tubing or fittings are required. The stock sending unit has ample area on the mounting plate to accomodate a 3/8 " or even 1/2" line if required.
Regarding PWM pumps, that's a much newer control that started appearing in vehicles mid-2000s. The ECM controls the fuel pump using PWM, but requires a fuel flow sensor and usually a vapor pressure sensor as well. The benefit of running a PWM controlled pump is that you simply do not need a return line! However, the ECM has to support PWM pump control and that's not very common in aftermarket systems yet. Vapor lock is not an issue with EFI since the line pressure is maintained between 30-60 psi, depending on other factors.
Regarding PWM pumps, that's a much newer control that started appearing in vehicles mid-2000s. The ECM controls the fuel pump using PWM, but requires a fuel flow sensor and usually a vapor pressure sensor as well. The benefit of running a PWM controlled pump is that you simply do not need a return line! However, the ECM has to support PWM pump control and that's not very common in aftermarket systems yet. Vapor lock is not an issue with EFI since the line pressure is maintained between 30-60 psi, depending on other factors.
Mesozoic really hit the nail on the head on think. Nice setup by the way. I like the reverse sump design it looks good and over comes the front sump fuel wash annoyance. The only fuel starvation issues I have seen with external pumps are when the tank didn't have a proper sump like his. Most of the new external electric fuel pumps I have seen are not made to be fed from the top of the tank. Best way to describe it if I understand it correctly is they are designed to be a pusher(gravity fed) not a puller pump. Alot can be said about how easy it is to maintain an external setup also.
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You are missing the fact that with an internal pump, a failure with a tank full of gas is a PITA to address whereas with an external pump it is very easy to replace or repair
What he said.
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What started as a thread about replacement gas tanks has turned into a (very good and informative) thread about Electronic Fuel Injection in relation to gas tanks.
Ray
Ray
GonHuntin
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I realize I'm new here and you folks don't know my mechanical abilities……and, not to make light of your comments…...but I've never found draining a fuel tank to be all that difficult…..worst part is finding something to put the fuel in. I have pulled tanks to replace pumps before, yes, it can be a PITA, but it's really not that tough. Last one was an S10 Blazer and the worst part was reaching in far enough to disconnect the hoses. Having already removed the tank from this vehicle, I just don't see this being a big problem?
Of course, having an in tank pump fail on a road trip is another matter entirely……been there, done that, wrote the check!! :s
Thanks for the input.
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Mesozoic
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At least there are options, whether you want to run an in-tank or an external, but from my experience it's simply easier to run an external and it also makes changing/servicing parts a bit less of a hassle. Of course, if you want the clean look of an in-tank pump, by all means, do it!
I think this comment points out one of the wonderful things about these cars and all the options available is that we really are able to make personal choices on these things that aren't limited because there's only parts available to do it "one way" I also think it's important for us all to remember that they are PERSONAL choices, each with pros and cons in either direction.
This has been a really good thread! I learned a lot from reading it and plan to keep it in the knowledge storehouse for the day I finally go EFI (Which will happen sometime after I either retire or win the lottery, neither is likely to happen soon)
