Drive shaft conundrum

[tony-muscle]

So I am going from a C6 to a TKO600. I will need a shaft about 3" longer. The issue is that I am eventually planing to upgrade the rear axle's pumpkin to a lower ratio, Truetrack and 1350 pinion. Right now I have the stock 3.00 with 1310. Ideally, I would like to use the new transmission and 408 stroker for a while with my current setup before I upgrade the rear axle. I am undecided if I would want 3.50 or 3.70, so I would like to feel it with my current 3.00 before I make that decision :shootself: . That said I will need a drive shaft to work with my current setup, but I assume this shaft is not going to work with the 1350 setup after I upgrade. That said, what are my options? should I get a cheap drive shaft now to work with my current setup and then later upgrade the drive shaft to be 1350 all the way. Or can I make a drive shaft work with my current 1310 and later work with the upgraded 1350?  :chin: :chin:

PS: I won't be able to be too aggressive during the first 500 miles any ways to allow the transmission to break in so the 1310 u-joints should hold during that period. However, I won't drive too mild because I will also need to seat the piston rings.

 

[Bentworker]

Spicer/094/5-460X

Could have a nice shaft built with a 1350 yoke and use a conversion u-joint for now.

 

[johnwanzel]

Yep. I would invest in a good quality driveshaft (should be 51” for a tko600). I am buying mine from dynotech engineering. Not cheap but balanced to 8000 rpm and all the nascar guys are using them so that’s cool too. Use the conversion u joint until you make the swap then put in the 1350 joints. The non greasable u joints are stronger than the greasable ones.

 

[tony-muscle]

Yep. I would invest in a good quality driveshaft (should be 51” for a tko600). I am buying mine from dynotech engineering. Not cheap but balanced to 8000 rpm and all the nascar guys are using them so that’s cool too. Use the conversion u joint until you make the swap then put in the 1350 joints. The non greasable u joints are stronger than the greasable ones.

My question is if the drive shaft length would change after i change the center section of the rear axle. The rear pinion yoke is now 1310 but i will change to 1350 eventually.
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[Bentworker]

The answer to that question depends on what yoke you choose to use on your new Carrier.

I’d break out a measuring device and see.

https://www.strangeengineering.net/product/ford-9-28-spl-1350-strange-h-d.html/

The only distance that matters is the overall length of the yoke. How far it is from where the yoke touches the race of the outer pinion bearing to center of the yoke caps. Kinda hard to measure the one you have but you should b able to get in the ballpark.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I do not know about the drive shaft. I was at my friends shop couple days ago and he is changing his Ford 9" rear in his 500+ CI 66 pontiac GTO. He is pulling out a Moser Detroit Locker with 35 spline center. He is looking to sell just the guts would you be interested? You will not break the 35 spline with a 351.

On the subject of breaking in the rings on your engine. Once the engine has heated up one time the seating is done and only normal wear takes place. If all your clearances are right you run as hard as you want. When we built race engines the cam and rings were only break in and that was done in minutes. I would think the transmission mfg. would run them in on a dyno during production and would expect no break in there either. I would check with them.

David

 

[johnwanzel]

The size difference between the 1310,1330,-and 1350 joints are only a matter of approx 1/2” difference. I don’t think the change between the ujoints will have any impact on the shaft or the placement of the yoke in the trans.

 

[tony-muscle]

The answer to that question depends on what yoke you choose to use on your new Carrier.

I’d break out a measuring device and see.

https://www.strangeengineering.net/product/ford-9-28-spl-1350-strange-h-d.html/

The only distance that matters is the overall length of the yoke. How far it is from where the yoke touches the race of the outer pinion bearing to center of the yoke caps. Kinda hard to measure the one you have but you should b able to get in the ballpark.

Good idea. Since I am eventually planing on getting my rear end from Strange I can look at the dimensions of the 1350 compared to what i have now.
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[tony-muscle]

Does anyone know the dimensions of the stock 1310 pinion yoke? Right now I am 4,000 miles away from my car.

PS: 9" ford 3.00 gears

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[tony-muscle]

Update:

After measuring, my diff has the 5" yoke. The center section sold by Strange has the 4" yoke and they don't have an option with the 5" yoke. So I am left with the option of finding a center section with a 5" yoke, or replacing my current yoke from 5" to 4". Any ideas?

 

[tony-muscle]

Update:

After measuring, my diff has the 5" yoke. The center section sold by Strange has the 4" yoke and they don't have an option with the 5" yoke. So I am left with the option of finding a center section with a 5" yoke, or replacing my current yoke from 5" to 4". Any ideas?

Continuing with this issue. I decided to purchase the differential 1350 yoke from Strange. I will then remove the current yoke and install the Strange yoke. I will measure and order the driveshaft with 1350 u-joints to use in the mean time. Later, when I replace the center section with one from Strange the dimensions of the driveshaft should be the same. Unfortunately, this will cost me an additional yoke that I may be able to sell at a later time. 

My question now, to replace the yoke, you just remove the old one and tighten the new one, or do I have to do something more to keep the same pinion preload.

 

[TommyK]

Update:

After measuring, my diff has the 5" yoke. The center section sold by Strange has the 4" yoke and they don't have an option with the 5" yoke. So I am left with the option of finding a center section with a 5" yoke, or replacing my current yoke from 5" to 4". Any ideas?

Continuing with this issue. I decided to purchase the differential 1350 yoke from Strange. I will then remove the current yoke and install the Strange yoke. I will measure and order the driveshaft with 1350 u-joints to use in the mean time. Later, when I replace the center section with one from Strange the dimensions of the driveshaft should be the same. Unfortunately, this will cost me an additional yoke that I may be able to sell at a later time. 

My question now, to replace the yoke, you just remove the old one and tighten the new one, or do I have to do something more to keep the same pinion preload.

I have successfully R&R'd the yoke and seal without replacing the crush sleeve by simply re-torquing and checking the preload with an inch-pound torque wrench on a bench. (You can do it in the car if you pull the axles.) I believe there is actually a procedure in the FSM for doing this.

Unfortunately, I have also unsuccessfully done it. It's a crap shoot.

 

[tony-muscle]

Update:

After measuring, my diff has the 5" yoke. The center section sold by Strange has the 4" yoke and they don't have an option with the 5" yoke. So I am left with the option of finding a center section with a 5" yoke, or replacing my current yoke from 5" to 4". Any ideas?

Continuing with this issue. I decided to purchase the differential 1350 yoke from Strange. I will then remove the current yoke and install the Strange yoke. I will measure and order the driveshaft with 1350 u-joints to use in the mean time. Later, when I replace the center section with one from Strange the dimensions of the driveshaft should be the same. Unfortunately, this will cost me an additional yoke that I may be able to sell at a later time. 

My question now, to replace the yoke, you just remove the old one and tighten the new one, or do I have to do something more to keep the same pinion preload.

I have successfully R&R'd the yoke and seal without replacing the crush sleeve by simply re-torquing and checking the preload with an inch-pound torque wrench on a bench. (You can do it in the car if you pull the axles.) I believe there is actually a procedure in the FSM for doing this.

Unfortunately, I have also unsuccessfully done it. It's a crap shoot.

What happened when you were unsuccessful?

 

[Bentworker]

+1 on Tommy’s post

Really the only correct way to swap yokes on a crush sleeve setup is to do a before and after with an inch pound dial type or beam torque wrench.

You just measure the force it takes in inch pounds to rotate your pinion before you take it apart. R&R the yoke and seal (use sealant on the splines). Then just tighten the pinion nut with threadlocker in small increments until it takes an inch pound or two more force to turn the pinion than your start number.

If something goes wrong your pinion bearings will die a horrible death. That being said as long as you start with something that is in good condition and are deliberate you should have success.

Get yourself a 0-30 inch pound wrench unless you plan on working on big stuff like large 4x4 axles, then go 0-75

 

[TommyK]

Continuing with this issue. I decided to purchase the differential 1350 yoke from Strange. I will then remove the current yoke and install the Strange yoke. I will measure and order the driveshaft with 1350 u-joints to use in the mean time. Later, when I replace the center section with one from Strange the dimensions of the driveshaft should be the same. Unfortunately, this will cost me an additional yoke that I may be able to sell at a later time. 

My question now, to replace the yoke, you just remove the old one and tighten the new one, or do I have to do something more to keep the same pinion preload.

I have successfully R&R'd the yoke and seal without replacing the crush sleeve by simply re-torquing and checking the preload with an inch-pound torque wrench on a bench. (You can do it in the car if you pull the axles.) I believe there is actually a procedure in the FSM for doing this.

Unfortunately, I have also unsuccessfully done it. It's a crap shoot.

What happened when you were unsuccessful?

It whined due to improper preload.

 

[tony-muscle]

+1 on Tommy’s post

Really the only correct way to swap yokes on a crush sleeve setup is to do a before and after with an inch pound dial type or beam torque wrench.

You just measure the force it takes in inch pounds to rotate your pinion before you take it apart.  R&R the yoke and seal (use sealant on the splines). Then just tighten the pinion nut with threadlocker in small increments until it takes an inch pound or two more force to turn the pinion than your start number.

If something goes wrong your pinion bearings will die a horrible death.  That being said as long as you start with something that is in good condition and are deliberate you should have success.  

Get yourself a 0-30 inch pound wrench unless you plan on working on big stuff like large 4x4 axles, then go 0-75

Can I test the rotational torque of the pinion before and after with the axles in?

 

[Bentworker]

+1 on Tommy’s post

Really the only correct way to swap yokes on a crush sleeve setup is to do a before and after with an inch pound dial type or beam torque wrench.

You just measure the force it takes in inch pounds to rotate your pinion before you take it apart.  R&R the yoke and seal (use sealant on the splines). Then just tighten the pinion nut with threadlocker in small increments until it takes an inch pound or two more force to turn the pinion than your start number.

If something goes wrong your pinion bearings will die a horrible death.  That being said as long as you start with something that is in good condition and are deliberate you should have success.  

Get yourself a 0-30 inch pound wrench unless you plan on working on big stuff like large 4x4 axles, then go 0-75

Can I test the rotational torque of the pinion before and after with the axles in?

I wouldn't...

I'd pull the pinion support out and do the whole process on a work bench, then put the pinion support back in with the same shims it came out with and some fresh sealer.  Should be easy- no reason to pull the shafts.

 

[tony-muscle]

+1 on Tommy’s post

Really the only correct way to swap yokes on a crush sleeve setup is to do a before and after with an inch pound dial type or beam torque wrench.

You just measure the force it takes in inch pounds to rotate your pinion before you take it apart.  R&R the yoke and seal (use sealant on the splines). Then just tighten the pinion nut with threadlocker in small increments until it takes an inch pound or two more force to turn the pinion than your start number.

If something goes wrong your pinion bearings will die a horrible death.  That being said as long as you start with something that is in good condition and are deliberate you should have success.  

Get yourself a 0-30 inch pound wrench unless you plan on working on big stuff like large 4x4 axles, then go 0-75

Can I test the rotational torque of the pinion before and after with the axles in?

I wouldn't...

I'd pull the pinion support out and do the whole process on a work bench, then put the pinion support back in with the same shims it came out with and some fresh sealer.  Should be easy- no reason to pull the shafts.

Okay. I see. So the torque is to turn the pinion by itself and the bearing, not when it is engaged to the gear, right?

 

[Bentworker]

Yep. You got it.