Need help, front end clunk

[RIBS]

I have a clunk in the front end I can’t get rid of. It’s sort of a pop noice when steering through a repeatable just off center left. It also sometimes pops on accell/de Accel.

Car is 302 convertible with PS. Might be a 73 steering column. With the exception of torsion bar(front frame link) center link, pitman arm, steering gearbox, the entire front end has been replaced….

I have gone through and tightened everything. twice. shocks spring mounts, upper, lower control arms, anti roll bar, spindle mounts, tie rods, idler, center link, etc…

I had or have some problem with the driver torsion bar..the link from the LCA to front frame member. It seems to not want to tighten up correctly…threads are clean…can’t get rubber bushings to compress as tight as passenger side…I determined the inner sleeve seemed to be too long, so I cut a half inch off, sill not tight. Today I cut another 1/4 inch off, I don’t think I pinched it yet, but I am as tight As I can go with 24 inch breaker bar…

thoughts? Tips?

 

[Sheriff41]

It sounds like you've narrowed it down to the problem. The strut rod bushing nut should tighten against the internal sleeve on the bushings, not compress the bushing, though the bushing may compress some until the nut tightens against the sleeve. The torque range for the strut rod nut is 60-80 ft-lb. Are you certain you paired the bushings so you had one front and one rear bushing? You may want to replace the strut rod bushing with a new one since you've modified the sleeve.

 

[RIBS]

It sounds like you've narrowed it down to the problem. The strut rod bushing nut should tighten against the internal sleeve on the bushings, not compress the bushing, though the bushing may compress some until the nut tightens against the sleeve. The torque range for the strut rod nut is 60-80 ft-lb. Are you certain you paired the bushings so you had one front and one rear bushing? You may want to replace the strut rod bushing with a new one since you've modified the sleeve.

I am sure the parts are correct, the bushings, sleeves are new and matched the old….….it just seems like the sleeve was too long. when I Tightened against the sleeve it left uncompressed rubber bushings, and loose metal rings, and clunking, and unstable steering…The passenger side is much tighter, compressed rubber, and no noise. The only sensible thing to me is to shorten the sleeve to get some compression of the parts….

 

[mrgmhale]

I recently purchased a piece of equipment you may find useful. It is a Chassis Ear from SteelMan. I am not near my laptop, using iPhone. Otherwise I could shoot you the link. Use google to find it. I actually have two kits. One had 6 metal spring loaded clamps to clip onto various parts locations and a selector ton listen to one clamp At a time to see if you can pick up the noise or vibration. The pickup clamp can be on the passenger cabin, under dash, under hood or in trunk, or anywhere along the underside. The one kit uses wire cables to carry the sounds. The other kit has 4 wireless transmitters (up to two more transmitters can be added).

Where are you located? WH. I just looked at your profile. Atlanta area. Too far for us to get together. If you were in our area I was going to seeing we could get together to use one of the chassis ear kits.

Gil

 

[Ron Tanzi]

I am sure the parts are correct, the bushings, sleeves are new and matched the old….….it just seems like the sleeve was too long. when I Tightened against the sleeve it left uncompressed rubber bushings, and loose metal rings, and clunking, and unstable steering…The passenger side is much tighter, compressed rubber, and no noise. The only sensible thing to me is to shorten the sleeve to get some compression of the parts….

The strut rod length is used to adjust the caster angle there should be a jam nut on the strut rod backing up the big washer and inner bushing and the outer nut should be a locking style nut. Shortening the rod increases caster angle to the positive. You should get an alignment when you get everything in order. Positive caster (I run 2 degrees positive) gives you good steering wheel centering and good straight line stability.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

The strut rod length is used to adjust the caster angle there should be a jam nut on the strut rod backing up the big washer and inner bushing and the outer nut should be a locking style nut. Shortening the rod increases caster angle to the positive. You should get an alignment when you get everything in order. Positive caster (I run 2 degrees positive) gives you good steering wheel centering and good straight line stability.

I also wanted to mention that I used a Moog strut rod bushing kit but this was at least 20 years ago. I had no issues installing it.

 

[steves73]

I had that problem once and it was a wheel bearing. I was always afraid of tightening it too much causing wear or heat, so I didn't tighten it enough. Maybe find the correct torque and check them. If you have a torque measuring wrench already, it's easy do.

 

[RIBS]

The strut rod length is used to adjust the caster angle there should be a jam nut on the strut rod backing up the big washer and inner bushing and the outer nut should be a locking style nut. Shortening the rod increases caster angle to the positive. You should get an alignment when you get everything in order. Positive caster (I run 2 degrees positive) gives you good steering wheel centering and good straight line stability.

Yeah it has front and rear nuts on the bar…I had the car aligned by a shop 3 months ago…they did not do a great job….and I know pulling that unit tighter by compressing from the front will change alignment….frustrating part was I replaced everything, let it settle for 6 moths, and told the shop I needed the entire front end checked and torqued, and aligned, that everything was installed but not necessary tightened to specs….they skipped all that…I just found everything was medium tight as I left it for them…after tightening everything up, I still have one clunk, but it seems the car is more stable, and better connected….

i have another shop highly recommended to take it to….

 

[Cleveland Crush]

RIBS, I suggest always getting a before and after alignment printout. Keeps the shop upfront with you and its a very useful reference document also.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

Yeah it has front and rear nuts on the bar…I had the car aligned by a shop 3 months ago…they did not do a great job….and I know pulling that unit tighter by compressing from the front will change alignment….frustrating part was I replaced everything, let it settle for 6 moths, and told the shop I needed the entire front end checked and torqued, and aligned, that everything was installed but not necessary tightened to specs….they skipped all that…I just found everything was medium tight as I left it for them…after tightening everything up, I still have one clunk, but it seems the car is more stable, and better connected….

i have another shop highly recommended to take it to….

Most shops these days only know the "set the toe and go" method of alignments. That sucks they did a shitty job. I did alignments for a long time and knew all the methods (including shimming control arms to adjust camber and caster was always a PIA) and to be honest most modern cars IE: cars made in the last 25 years especially those with front wheel drive have a provision for just toe adjustments and that is it. A lot of alignment guys have no clue how to deal with cars like ours. To make things worse there are a lot of really bad mechanics "working" out there. I am glad you have a good shop you may be able to rely on. Good luck to you and keep us posted.

Ron

 

[mrgmhale]

I am back at the laptop. The link for the Chassis Ear line of products is:
https://steelmantools.com/products/wireless-chassisear-2-diagnostic-device-kit

As mentioned above, I got both are nice, but the wireless kit is easier to work with. I am now beginning to connect the various leads and management console to some digital oscilloscopes so I can "see" the various sounds and vibrations visually on a scope. Interest area to explore, but not at all needed as the audo output from the pickups and controller sound output are more than enough to pinpoint sound and vibration sources.

if you anywhere near the Rochester, NY area let me know and perhaps we can put my Chassis Ear units on you car to see what is going on. If you are at all interested in the Chassis ear go to youtube,com and check out how some folks have been using them. It takes the guess work out of diagnosing sounds and vibrations.

 

[mrgmhale]

I had that problem once and it was a wheel bearing. I was always afraid of tightening it too much causing wear or heat, so I didn't tighten it enough. Maybe find the correct torque and check them. If you have a torque measuring wrench already,

 

[Nam Vet]

Most shops these days only know the "set the toe and go" method of alignments. That sucks they did a shitty job. I did alignments for a long time and knew all the methods (including shimming control arms to adjust camber and caster was always a PIA) and to be honest most modern cars IE: cars made in the last 25 years especially those with front wheel drive have a provision for just toe adjustments and that is it. A lot of alignment guys have no clue how to deal with cars like ours. To make things worse there are a lot of really bad mechanics "working" out there. I am glad you have a good shop you may be able to rely on. Good luck to you and keep us posted.

Ron

You are spot on Ron.. We knew all the settings on these cars at my shop and never had a comeback.. Like you said, todays so called mechanics set the toe and go baloney. Take your money and leave you with poor steering. It's difficult to find a reputable shop that can perform the alignment properly..

 

[mrgmhale]

Ee: how to tighten the wheel bearing, I slowly turn the drum or rotor while tightening the retaining bit until it is finger tight. Then I back off the bit until I can get the castle not cover enough to insert the retaining nut cotter pin. That leaves the nut very slightly loose, but not loose enough to cause a sloppy bearing noise.

I have a snippet from a Ford shop manual on my laptop, and a video showing how it is done. Once back at the laptop I will provide the link and snippet from the manual.

 

[mrgmhale]

Ee: how to tighten the wheel bearing, I slowly turn the drum or rotor while tightening the retaining bit until it is finger tight. Then I back off the bit until I can get the castle not cover enough to insert the retaining nut cotter pin. That leaves the nut very slightly loose, but not loose enough to cause a sloppy bearing noise.

I have a snippet from a Ford shop manual on my laptop, and a video showing how it is done. Once back at the laptop I will provide the link and snippet from the manual.

The following video covers packing and replacing a wheel bearing. But at 12:20 mm:ss into the video I show how to adjust the bearing retaining nut.

https://youtu.be/z_RwCz21LT4

The attached file contains the Ford Shop Manual directions on tightening the wheel bearing retaining nut (it is displayed in the video link above as well).

 

[69 Rustang]

Jack the car up, put it on stands. Have someone grab one of the wheels top and bottom and slowly pull in/out top/bottom. Watch ever joint there is for a bit as they continue to shake the wheel top/bottom. Then do the other wheel same way. Be sure to do fore/aft to check steering linkage too. A few years back I thought I had a ball joint issue. I bought new lower control arms, then my teenage son was finally interested in helping me work on the car for the first time—we jacked it up to replace the LCA’s and I noticed something. I had my son do the shake test and the lower ball joint nuts on both sides were loose! I pulled the cotter pins, tightened them up, re-pinned them, then test drove the car. No more clunk. We put about 500 miles on it and checked again, no issues. My lesson—diagnose before credit card. Anybody need a pair of lower control arms?