New mufflers

[4Vforever]

On my 73 Q code vert I'm running Hooker Comp headers, 2 1/4 pipes H pipe and a pair of Summit brand Aero Chamber mufflers. No drone just a great real V8 sound and as the revs increase the sounds just keeps sounding better without being overly loud. I've had people ask what I'm using as the really like the sound. When I tell them they cant believe such a cheap and easy system sounds that good. I got onto these mufflers through a mate of mine when he needed some cheap mufflers on a car he bought in the US to drive around in. He ended up liking the sound so much they're still on the car today. They're a very well made piece and look just like the Hookers and quite a few people I know have been using them and are very happy with them    

These are the type we use, in fact my exhaust guy was so impressed with them and now uses them as well.     https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sum-630160/overview/

 NO DRONE!! Now That is very interesting and as you say cheap (ish). Nearly 40% on our Canadian dollar ups it a bit, but still worth considering.

Thanks for your input.

None what so ever, then again I've always designed my systems to eliminate drone. The biggest problem is people put too big of a pipe on for their application. Most people don't want to believe what size pipe will handle X amount of power. The bigger is better thought transfers over to pipe diameters way too often. The amount of times I've seen twin 2 1/2" systems on 350 even 400+ HP engines then complain about drone is laughable. I've even met people that don't even realise what drone is as they think that's how it's just meant to sound. Nothing better than having the top down on the vert and hearing that proper V8 sound and tap the pedal,and it just sounds like a V8 should. The old mufflers were some Turbo thing as that's all it had stamped on it and sounded fairly good, but the aero chambers are something better again. 

As for exchange rates it's something I know all too well about for the last 25 years and on top of that the shipping costs to Australia aren't cheap either. Not much we can do about it but to just grin and bear it and either buy what you want or don't. Or there's always buy the same parts here from our stores and pay at the very least 20% more than bringing it in. It's a no brainer to me

 

[Stanglover]

On my 73 Q code vert I'm running Hooker Comp headers, 2 1/4 pipes H pipe and a pair of Summit brand Aero Chamber mufflers. No drone just a great real V8 sound and as the revs increase the sounds just keeps sounding better without being overly loud. I've had people ask what I'm using as the really like the sound. When I tell them they cant believe such a cheap and easy system sounds that good. I got onto these mufflers through a mate of mine when he needed some cheap mufflers on a car he bought in the US to drive around in. He ended up liking the sound so much they're still on the car today. They're a very well made piece and look just like the Hookers and quite a few people I know have been using them and are very happy with them    

These are the type we use, in fact my exhaust guy was so impressed with them and now uses them as well.     https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sum-630160/overview/

 NO DRONE!! Now That is very interesting and as you say cheap (ish). Nearly 40% on our Canadian dollar ups it a bit, but still worth considering.

Thanks for your input.

None what so ever, then again I've always designed my systems to eliminate drone. The biggest problem is people put too big of a pipe on for their application. Most people don't want to believe what size pipe will handle X amount of power. The bigger is better thought transfers over to pipe diameters way too often. The amount of times I've seen twin 2 1/2" systems on 350 even 400+ HP engines then complain about drone is laughable. I've even met people that don't even realise what drone is as they think that's how it's just meant to sound. Nothing better than having the top down on the vert and hearing that proper V8 sound and tap the pedal,and it just sounds like a V8 should. The old mufflers were some Turbo thing as that's all it had stamped on it and sounded fairly good, but the aero chambers are something better again. 

As for exchange rates it's something I know all too well about for the last 25 years and on top of that the shipping costs to Australia aren't cheap either. Not much we can do about it but to just grin and bear it and either buy what you want or don't. Or there's always buy the same parts here from our stores and pay at the very least 20% more than bringing it in. It's a no brainer to me

 Ok my friend, sounds like a plan on those mufflers. I've been very impressed with your comments and opinions as you obviously know your stuff. It's good to know that there are people out there that care and give honest input. If we relied on what the vendors say about their products, sorry, but we'd all in trouble.

As for the exchange rates and shipping, I hear you brother, it hurts! For us in Canada, there are a few vendors, but we mostly have to rely on buying in the US. For me, I'm somewhat lucky as there is a NPD outlet only 1 1/2 hrs drive across the border.

Geoff.

 

[Silverback]

[No message]

 

[SR71 BLACKBIRD]

I've had good luck with these Borlas https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bor-40358 I based my decision on a dyno test I saw online where they also checked loudness in decibels. These were both quietest and most power/torque. Not by a wide margin, but I really like them in that they're very compact. I use them on my 460 powered '79 Ranchero, and I have another set in the box to go on my '72 Mustang. Also recommend band clamps for ease of disassembly. Still makes a good mellow sound that doesn't irritate the neighbors.

 

[73pony]

I've had good luck with these Borlas https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bor-40358 I based my decision on a dyno test I saw online where they also checked loudness in decibels. These were both quietest and most power/torque. Not by a wide margin, but I really like them in that they're very compact. I use them on my 460 powered '79 Ranchero, and I have another set in the box to go on my '72 Mustang. Also recommend band clamps for ease of disassembly. Still makes a good mellow sound that doesn't irritate the neighbors.

Yeah. I got tired of my neighbors complaining about my car so I am moving. Drives me nuts as it isn't that loud. They all complain that they can hear me start it up in the morning if I decided to take it to work. Moving out of town on a couple of acres with no close neighbors to complain. Can't wait. Closing on new place July 10!

 

[will e]

We had a harley guy. He liked to drink and then fire up the bike at 11pm and just idle/rev it in his garage. He was a neighborhood favorite.

Our next door neighbor has an older ford diesel. He will start it up and let it idel for like 10 minutes before leaving. It's kind of annoying.

I suppose some of my neighbors don't like the Mustang. Fortunatly I normally drive it after most people are up and before they go to bed. I know it's not too loud because some of the neighbor kids on their bikes don't hear me coming. Which is hard to believe.

 

[Fabrice]

I've opted for custom stainless steal exhaust. There is a company near my home, that makes them on demand with you. Not only you pick the size, the flow, the finish

but they also let you pick the decibels

All I know is I have these on the 73 and let them do my wife's MNI. They shine as if I've bolted on them yesterday. All fittings being stainless steel as well, if I need

do something and remove them, all goes as butter, stays brand new.

Cost wise, they were for me cheaper than if I would order in the states due to transport/taxes.

I will also never need new ones. I've already had like 3 sets in the 30 years I own this baby before I went stainless.

Rest of line is in duraluminum, some corrosion free mix of 2 metals. It will be there too long time after I'm gone.

I'm sure there are similar companies in USA.

One funny thing I regret not buy back then is the little electric switch device they promote that allows you to swap tubes for sound reasons.

 

[Stanglover]

I have Flowmaster 40's on my 351 4V and they sound great, get lots of good comments. Downside is droning at 2500 rpm that goes away at 3000. This is common on these cars, but my exhaust specialist claims that the Flowmaster's are the main cause. He recommends Dynomax saying they are about the same sound, but without the drone. I've not heard a set of them so I can't say for sure. Maybe he just wants to sell me a set as that is what he sells! I have to replace my old exhaust soon, so if anyone can confirm, I'm all ears.

Geoff.

What you can get away with vs what makes the best power is very different.  For that matter, on the street people can't really tell a 10hp or more change and react more to a sound change.  That's why flowmaster's sell, they make your car sound more like a race car, and even though they might hurt performance in many cases they sound better so people feel like they made their cars faster.

Putting a smaller diameter pipe on an exhaust increases velocity and lowers tuning frequency (If you're interested look up Helmholtz tuning), so typically a smaller pipe that is the same length will sound lower and will have less objectionable qualities at partial throttle (less droning, gurgling...), that doesn't mean that it's better matched to the engine or that the engine doesn't need more flow, it's just taking advantage of helmholtz tuning and increasing exhaust velocity at light load(forcing exhaust to flow straight through, turbulance/funny flow is what causes droaning and other weird noises), and likely killing performance at heavy loads/wot.  If you want a perfect example of this, if you want a great sounding exhaust on a v8 (especially trucks) you Y the pipes together into a single 2-1/4" pipe, put a glasspack in that and then split it off into 2 tailpipes with some nice chrome tips.  It will sound deep, powerful and still mellow and not annoying inside (trucks tend to have a boxy cabin without a lot of sound deadening making droning and other maladies worse).  2" or 2-1/4" duals sound great on most musclecars with any loud performance mufflers, and if it was built since the late 80's probably flow less than the stock exhaust and measurably hurt performance.  

The solution for most people if they care about performance is to size the pipes accordingly and then use a straight through style muffler (my choice tends to be the dynomax ultra flow welded, but hooker max flow, magnaflow, borla... all have stuff that works).  With larger exhausts this sometimes means living with a loud exhaust, but there are tricks to tame that down without hurting performance.  If you're looking for a more classic muscle car sound then look at a turbo muffler like the dynomax super turbo (they have "hemi" mufflers that have larger flow tubes inside and have almost the flow of a straight through muffler).  One of the best sounding mufflers out there that still has good flow and a design that tends to eliminate most droning/popping... is the Hooker Aerochamber, I've never seen one installed that didn't sound great.

 Mark, that's good info there. Gets a bit confusing, but like always, I'll figure out what's best for my car and budget.

 I worked with Helmholtz resonators when prototyping automotive air induction systems, so I have a good understanding of their effect.

I'll make sure to bookmark this for reference later. I now have another issue pending that needs money before the exhaust, which is still in usable albeit droning condition.

I really appreciate all the great comments and suggestions made. Thanks to you all.

Geoff

 

[Silverback]

 Mark, that's good info there. Gets a bit confusing, but like always, I'll figure out what's best for my car and budget.

 I worked with Helmholtz resonators when prototyping automotive air induction systems, so I have a good understanding of their effect.

I'll make sure to bookmark this for reference later. I now have another issue pending that needs money before the exhaust, which is still in usable albeit droning condition.

I really appreciate all the great comments and suggestions made. Thanks to you all.

Geoff

Geoff, Helmholtz equations apply to all sorts of tuning situations in cars, but in this case it's a simple "if you want to make it sound lower you need to make the pipe longer or smaller in diameter.  There is Helmholtz tuning in the case of header primaries and collectors, but typically a crossover in a dual exhaust or a good muffler is the end of the power tuning and anything after that is just trying to get it to sound like you want.

Take a look at modern sports/muscle cars for good examples.  Very few of them (really very few even not all that modern ones, going back to the 90's) gain anything from a "performance exhaust" at anything close to stock power levels (you'll see like <5hp change and sometimes losses on a dyno).  They are tuned to sound like the manufacturer wants them to sound (ford mustangs have a distinct "mustang" sound going back to the 80's/early 90's 5.0, even with different engines under the hood), meet sound restrictions and not restrict power.  If you want an extreme example of this, I had a '97 WS6 Trans Am that with some minor mods and a lot of N2O would run mid 11's @117 mph.  I had the stock exhaust rigged up with a flange so I could just unscrew 3 bolts and drop the whole thing off the car, and at that speed/power level, I could not document any change between full factory exhaust (even manifolds and cats) and open exhaust.

 

[Mister 4x4]

I'm pretty happy with the Pypes Street Pro mufflers that came with my Pypes 2.5" stainless X-pipe system, behind a set of Hooker Comp ceramic-coated headers.



That was during the first firing of the engine after getting it all back in the car.  The system has settled in a bit and sounds a bit deeper and meatier.  I have a new camera coming - I'll try and get some better video.

 

[Stanglover]

 Mark, that's good info there. Gets a bit confusing, but like always, I'll figure out what's best for my car and budget.

 I worked with Helmholtz resonators when prototyping automotive air induction systems, so I have a good understanding of their effect.

I'll make sure to bookmark this for reference later. I now have another issue pending that needs money before the exhaust, which is still in usable albeit droning condition.

I really appreciate all the great comments and suggestions made. Thanks to you all.

Geoff

Geoff, Helmholtz equations apply to all sorts of tuning situations in cars, but in this case it's a simple "if you want to make it sound lower you need to make the pipe longer or smaller in diameter.  There is Helmholtz tuning in the case of header primaries and collectors, but typically a crossover in a dual exhaust or a good muffler is the end of the power tuning and anything after that is just trying to get it to sound like you want.

Take a look at modern sports/muscle cars for good examples.  Very few of them (really very few even not all that modern ones, going back to the 90's) gain anything from a "performance exhaust" at anything close to stock power levels (you'll see like <5hp change and sometimes losses on a dyno).  They are tuned to sound like the manufacturer wants them to sound (ford mustangs have a distinct "mustang" sound going back to the 80's/early 90's 5.0, even with different engines under the hood), meet sound restrictions and not restrict power.  If you want an extreme example of this, I had a '97 WS6 Trans Am that with some minor mods and a lot of N2O would run mid 11's @117 mph.  I had the stock exhaust rigged up with a flange so I could just unscrew 3 bolts and drop the whole thing off the car, and at that speed/power level, I could not document any change between full factory exhaust (even manifolds and cats) and open exhaust.

 Very interesting reply Mark. Clearly you are very knowledgeable on the subject and your comments are indeed useful. However, as I see it, I will need to evaluate my sound and power levels based on all the information offered. First, I have to redo my rear springs so the exhaust has to wait. The piggy bank isn't as fat as it once was!!

On another subject, I notice you list an 83 crossfire TA. I'll PM you on that as it may have an air cleaner that I built at a prototype level. I have only ever seen one other car with that on it.

 

[Pegleg]

I've opted for custom stainless steal exhaust. There is a company near my home, that makes them on demand with you. Not only you pick the size, the flow, the finish

but they also let you pick the decibels

All I know is I have these on the 73 and let them do my wife's MNI. They shine as if I've bolted on them yesterday. All fittings being stainless steel as well, if I need

do something and remove them, all goes as butter, stays brand new.

Cost wise, they were for me cheaper than if I would order in the states due to transport/taxes.

I will also never need new ones. I've already had like 3 sets in the 30 years I own this baby before I went stainless.

Rest of line is in duraluminum, some corrosion free mix of 2 metals. It will be there too long time after I'm gone.

I'm sure there are similar companies in USA.

One funny thing I regret not buy back then is the little electric switch device they promote that allows you to swap tubes for sound reasons.

We have companies in UK make bespoke chrome exhaust systems. One of the best is called the cherry bomb. You tell them what you want from a exhaust and they will make it to your spec. Heres one of the best in the U.K. If you look through the gallery theres a fastback having a fit along with some more American cars http://www.custom-chrome.co.uk/Cars.html

 

[Stanglover]

While everything that has been discussed on this subject, has been very much in line with John J's question, I feel I owe him an apology as I feel my own needs have overshadowed his. I hope that John gets what he needs from all the posts and muffler ideas presented. We have not heard from John J since he posted the thread, so I hope he is reading and figuring out his answer.

Geoff.

 

[Silverback]

I'm pretty happy with the Pypes Street Pro mufflers that came with my Pypes 2.5" stainless X-pipe system, behind a set of Hooker Comp ceramic-coated headers.

I'm interested at what you have for the crossfire setup.  That is my old username on a bunch of the f-body groups.  I no longer have that car but have my crossfire setup that I'm saving for just the right project.  I'd love to get an '82 corvette with it on it... as much as people hated that setup I think that there is some real charm in it when you understand it and get it working correctly.

 

[piper62j]

Borla on my 02 Boss F150.. Very deep at idle and low cruise, but a beast when I kick in the super charger..

 

[Stanglover]

I'm interested at what you have for the crossfire setup.  That is my old username on a bunch of the f-body groups.  I no longer have that car but have my crossfire setup that I'm saving for just the right project.  I'd love to get an '82 corvette with it on it... as much as people hated that setup I think that there is some real charm in it when you understand it and get it working correctly.

 Mark, a PM coming your way, but not sure if I can attach pictures, If not we'll have go to private email.

Geoff.

 

[John J]

While everything that has been discussed on this subject, has been very much in line with John J's question, I feel I owe him an apology as I feel my own needs have overshadowed his. I hope that John gets what he needs from all the posts and muffler ideas presented. We have not heard from John J since he posted the thread, so I hope he is reading and figuring out his answer.

Geoff.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have not made a decision yet. Once I have them installed I will post some video of the results.

John J

 

[Stanglover]

While everything that has been discussed on this subject, has been very much in line with John J's question, I feel I owe him an apology as I feel my own needs have overshadowed his. I hope that John gets what he needs from all the posts and muffler ideas presented. We have not heard from John J since he posted the thread, so I hope he is reading and figuring out his answer.

Geoff.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have not made a decision yet. Once I have them installed I will post some video of the results.

John J

Good to hear from you John. Sounds like a plan. Gets confusing and interesting at the same time, doesn't it!