trans upgrade

[not2old]

Been away so long that I was on, I'm sure someone has posted econo way for best trans upgrades. My FMX has no engagement so most likely the pump. Is it best to pull and OH or replace with C-4 if direct bolt up. Will be working on my back whichever way I go. AOD seems like too much work. Can any trans shop do FMX OH that will last

Alan L

 

[Don65Stang]

The AOD may be easier than you think. The AOD design is based on the FMX. I plan to go this route when I upgrade my C6 cars (later). What rear gear are you running, 2.75?

http://www.becontrols.com/techguide_2.htm

Performance Guide


Section 2: AOD/AODE/4R70W Fundamentals


An Introduction to These Popular Transmissions

 


The Automatic OverDrive (AOD) transmission was introduced in 1980 as an answer to demands for higher fuel economy, lower vehicle emissions, and improved vehicle driveability. The AOD was a new transmission design into which various design features of existing Ford automatic transmissions were incorporated. The AOD was one of the first transmissions of its type in the automotive industry and also one of the simplest by design.

 


The AOD gear train design was based on the gear train of the FMX/Cruise-O-Matic transmission which (in one form or another) has been part of Ford's automatic transmission history for decades. This gear train incorporates a compound (six-pinion) planetary gear unit utilizing one planetary carrier with a set of short and long pinions rather than two or three single planet carriers. This design was probably used because of the minimal changes needed to "add" overdrive to it. In fact, the FMX, AOD, and AOD-E/4R70W are the only modern Ford transmissions which share the compound planetary design.

 


The reasons for using an AOD (or AOD-E), instead of a C-4 or C-6 transmission in your performance vehicle are obvious. The primary advantage of using an AOD is the potential for fuel efficiency with no resultant sacrifice in performance thanks to the 2/3-1 overdrive ratio which made the AOD a clear choice for Ford Motor Company, as well as its customers. For example, even a steep 3.73-1 rear axle ratio becomes a 2.49-1 ratio during fourth gear cruise (3.73 x 2/3 = 2.49), allowing about 1000 less engine RPM at highway speeds. Not only does the AOD provide a better cruising ratio than a three-speed automatic, but it also serves to further increase efficiency by by-passing the torque converter in fourth (and partially in third) gear through the direct input shaft. This is a precursor to the A4LD, E4OD, and AOD-E/4R70W transmissions which use a converter clutch to perform the same function under EEC control (providing much better performance).

 


The AOD-E/4R70W is the latest and best Ford performance transmission, and in our opinion, represents the foreseeable future of performance rear-wheel-drive automatic transmission technology. The beauty of the AOD-E/4R70W is that it retains all of the AOD's good features while improving the weak points (some of which can be improved in an AOD by using AOD-E parts). The AOD-E incorporates an enlarged two-inch-wide overdrive band, thereby eliminating an obvious weak link as well as providing some of the previously mentioned upgrade parts for the AOD. Another feature that is greatly improved from the AOD is the "lockup" or torque converter bypass system. Instead of the weaker concentric input shaft system of the AOD, the AOD-E/4R70W uses an actual clutch in the converter to provide lockup under EEC control rather than the fixed "60% lockup" in third and "full lockup" in fourth gear system of the AOD. The stronger input shaft and greater flexibility of this system are further enhanced by the fact that the converter clutch may actually be partially applied or "slipped" under electrical PWM (pulse-width-modulation) control from the EEC PCM. Unfortunately, the lockup system from the AOD-E cannot be transferred to your existing AOD, but vendors such as Precision Industries and Art Carr Transmissions provide high quality input shafts and torque converters that can either strengthen the inner (most likely to snap) input shaft or eliminate the AOD's "lockup" feature altogether (as in the case of Art Carr's solid input shaft, which bears a strong resemblance to the factory AOD-E input shaft). Finally, the 4R70W (AOD-EW) wide-ratio gear-set can be transplanted into any AOD or standard-ratio AOD-E application for greater first and second gear pulling power.

 

[73MustangCoupe]

Swapping in an AOD may be less expensive that overhauling an FMX, depending on the parts needing to be replaced. Some parts for the FMX are getting really hard to find and the shop charges for the time to track parts down, so.... Plus you'll get better fuel economy with the AOD and have a trans that can be serviced well into the future. Just a couple of thoughts, and worth what you paid for them.

 

[clevelandcoupe]

Not To Old,

I have a couple of C-6's & flex plate laying in the garage that I will not be using. One was a very low mileage take out from a rolled over truck and other was originally in my 7.3 H code. They are yours for free, if you could arrange P/U. I am in NW Jersey.

Let me know.

Thanks, Jay

 

[Don65Stang]

Alan,

The reason I asked about rear gear ratio is because if it is a 2.75 or even a 3.00:1 then I absolutely would NOT swap in an AOD or 4R70W but would go with a C4 or C6. Reason is because your rpms would be fairly low in 4th gear on the highway, too low actually in the 1600 to 1800 range with the overdrive gears.

If you have 3.25 or lower gears (larger numerically) then the overdrive gear would be most beneficial. I posted a spreadsheet about this at this thread:

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-trans-gear-vs-rear-gear-vs-rpm-vs-mph

 

[CZ-75]

I agree with Don. I just put in an AOD. My car has 3.25 rear end, and I would not go any lower. I'm right at 2,000 RPMs in OD at 70 MPH.

I will soon have a 3.89 rear end, which should be on the agressive side, but still acceptable highway RPMs

 

[wwhite72]

Had my FMX rebuilt with a shift kit and a kickin high stall converter. Probably would have been cheaper in the long run to do an AOD, which in my opinion is superior to an AODE swap only because there's no electrics involved. And the options for "built" AOD's are very interesting. There are a few guys doing performance on AOD's because with a few improvements they are very simple and very reliable performance trani's. the FMX loves to be shifted manually. Are stronger than the C4 and since the AOD is based on it you can get a tough trani that will perform well. I was surprised to learn that the FMX was designed originally as a trans that wanted to be shifted manually and hold high rpm for performance driving, and also start off in second if you had 4:11 gears. The AOD is the same but with the OD and now you can get bullet proof setup. Why introduce the electrics to a proven simple design?

 

[Tubo]

.......and now you can get bullet proof setup. Why introduce the electrics to a proven simple design?

As someone who has had an AOD, and Has a 65 2+2 w/4R70W and 73 Vert w/4R70W, I can reply to your question, from experience.

4R70W is the final iteration of the AOD family, with a wide ratio gear set, has all the AOD's faults/weaknesses FIXED. The "Bullet proof" AOD uses 4R70W internals,( and still doesn't have one piece output shaft & full lock up clutch converter) A reliable AOD trans alone will cost for $1500-$3000. Ask CZ-75 who spent bout $2500 (if not more) for his install. On top of which you still must mess with the problematic TV valve.

I have done both of my 4R70W installs for less than $1300 each. I'm talking everything to tail lights down the highway. Though the electric controls might seem complex, in actuality they aren't, and do add extra features unavailable on AOD. Like multiple programs, could be grocery getter and Full race. Or anything inbetween. Another feature available is, manual sellect & hold shift, like the new Mustangs.

AOD oldest design with many weaknesses, 4R70W stronger in everyway, better converter output & lock up, more versatile AND CHEAPER.

IMHO AOD is not the better choice. Cos been there done that.

Not being an internet smartass, just strong conviction.

Best

Tubo

 

[CZ-75]

My AOD was right about $2,500 installed, with 4R70W internals, a beefed up output shaft and a lockup converter.

I'm very happy with it.

It did take me a while to get the TV cable adjusted theway I like it.

Forgot to mention that the valve body is custom built, and is user adjustable

 

[Qcode351mach]

.......and now you can get bullet proof setup. Why introduce the electrics to a proven simple design?

As someone who has had an AOD, and Has a 65 2+2 w/4R70W and 73 Vert w/4R70W, I can reply to your question, from experience.

4R70W is the final iteration of the AOD family, with a wide ratio gear set, has all the AOD's faults/weaknesses FIXED. The "Bullet proof" AOD uses 4R70W internals,( and still doesn't have one piece output shaft & full lock up clutch converter) A reliable AOD trans alone will cost for $1500-$3000. Ask CZ-75 who spent bout $2500 (if not more) for his install. On top of which you still must mess with the problematic TV valve.

I have done both of my 4R70W installs for less than $1300 each. I'm talking everything to tail lights down the highway. Though the electric controls might seem complex, in actuality they aren't, and do add extra features unavailable on AOD. Like multiple programs, could be grocery getter and Full race. Or anything inbetween. Another feature available is, manual sellect & hold shift, like the new Mustangs.

AOD oldest design with many weaknesses, 4R70W stronger in everyway, better converter output & lock up, more versatile AND CHEAPER.

IMHO AOD is not the better choice. Cos been there done that.

Not being an internet smartass, just strong conviction.

Best

Tubo

Tubo could you post up the parts required.. sources for a $1300.00 4r70w mated to a 351w 408 stroker..I'm ready to pull the trigger but everything I'm seeing is at least $2500.00 all in. Thanks !

 

[wwhite72]

If you say the electrics are not a problem then i will have to defer to your experience. But please note i did say that the performance trani guys are offering aftermarket improved internals as CZ mantioned. I wasnt referring to the stock units. Had i known then what i know now i would not have put even the small amount of money in the FMX that i did. Thouh the new TC was worth the $300 bucks. IF i had a car with no trans i would want a version of the T56 manual only because i here a lo of them punk car theives cant drive a stick now. HA!

 

[not2old]

Running 2.75 gears so AOD my not be good fit, so C4 may be best choice.

What cars and years can I find bolt in units

Alan L

 

[Tubo]

... IF i had a car with no trans i would want a version of the T56 manual only because i here a lo of them punk car theives cant drive a stick now. HA!

HA!! Best reason I've heard for using a manual tranny. I love it!!

Tubo

 

[Tubo]

Tubo could you post up the parts required.. sources for a $1300.00 4r70w mated to a 351w 408 stroker..I'm ready to pull the trigger but everything I'm seeing is at least $2500.00 all in. Thanks !

Short version;

99-04 Mustang V-6 4R70W (Windsor bellhousing pattern)

Baumann US Shift controler & Shift kit

Add TPS to Carb linkage (easy fab)

Modify a 94-99 Mustang cable shifter(easy though fiddly)

Modify C4-C6 Trans mount, or Aftermarket AOD unit

4R70W is 2" longer than a C4, Plan Drive Shaft accordingly. My 73 has a stock 65 DS

Use a T-5 type Yoke

http://www.becontrols.com/ Read all the AOD and AODE/4R70W tech

Long version; Send me an email addy for a write up I've done or

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-up-grading-to-a-aode-4r70w

I'm always available to answer specific questions, like Shifter mod or TPS mount fab

Tubo

Added comment.

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/index.html

For a real strong unit go to a local tranny rebuilder. Have one done with Alto Red clutch discs +1, and use the Baumann ReCal Pro recalibration kit. Those mods, + trans cooler should be good to bout 650HP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Qcode351mach]

Tubo could you post up the parts required.. sources for a $1300.00 4r70w mated to a 351w 408 stroker..I'm ready to pull the trigger but everything I'm seeing is at least $2500.00 all in. Thanks !

Short version;

99-04 Mustang V-6 4R70W (Windsor bellhousing pattern)

Baumann US Shift controler & Shift kit

Add TPS to Carb linkage (easy fab)

Modify a 94-99 Mustang cable shifter(easy though fiddly)

Modify C4-C6 Trans mount, or Aftermarket AOD unit

4R70W is 2" longer than a C4, Plan Drive Shaft accordingly. My 73 has a stock 65 DS

Use a T-5 type Yoke

http://www.becontrols.com/ Read all the AOD and AODE/4R70W tech

Long version; Send me an email addy for a write up I've done or

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-up-grading-to-a-aode-4r70w

I'm always available to answer specific questions, like Shifter mod or TPS mount fab

Tubo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Appreciate it ! already read all the baumann stuff..just Leary of buying a junkyard tranny so looking for a source on rebuilt or new 4r70w

 

[Tubo]

Appreciate it ! already read all the baumann stuff..just Leary of buying a junkyard tranny so looking for a source on rebuilt or new 4r70w

Yeah I understand out being properly cautious. I bought a craigslist unit that was supposed to be rebuilt. It SHOULD have been rebuilt cos it was BURNT out.

I had a builder do one for me, specified 2000 Mustang V-6 base, Exploder V-8 clutches +1, with Alto Red discs, and the Baumann ReCalPro shift kit. I bought the ReCalPro, he sold me the completed trans for $650-No core charge. Been nothing but happy with it.

I do know to stay away from PATC Performance Transmissions, a Google of their rep will show why.

Tubo

 

[Qcode351mach]

Appreciate it ! already read all the baumann stuff..just Leary of buying a junkyard tranny so looking for a source on rebuilt or new 4r70w

Yeah I understand out being properly cautious. I bought a craigslist unit that was supposed to be rebuilt. It SHOULD have been rebuilt cos it was BURNT out.

I had a builder do one for me, specified 2000 Mustang V-6 base, Exploder V-8 clutches +1, with Alto Red discs, and the Baumann ReCalPro shift kit. I bought the ReCalPro, he sold me the completed trans for $650-No core charge. Been nothing but happy with it.

I do know to stay away from PATC Performance Transmissions, a Google of their rep will show why.

Tubo

Exactly.. I'm going to check around local at some of the tranny shops see what they have can do.. Thanks again !

 

[Qcode351mach]

So I've been searching around trying to do this swap for $1300.00 I just don't see it happening for that money..Just the stuff I need from Baumann comes to $1069.94 Thats the controller..tps..harness..valve body..& some misc. odds & ends..Found a great tranny shop he needs 400.00 just to get me a tranny to rebuild..Then his labor & parts..& he's not sure what his end will be till he opens up the tranny..I think you got real lucky doing the swaps for 1300.00 as I said by the time all is said & done I'm looking $2500.00 going to make one more call to monster transmission see what they get for 4r70w rebuilt.