What steps to paint over original paint??

[turtle5353]

Hey guys just wanted to pick your brains for some opinions and info. I am going to be painting a 71 Mach 1 with all original paint. Never been in an accident or re-sprayed. My question is how would you go about repainting it? I know opinions on this will vary from strip it to bare metal to scuff and shoot and everything in between. I do have some patch work to do on it and I maybe putting a new fender or two on, and a hood. So should I sand everything down with 80 or 180 and shoot whole car with an epoxy primer, do all the body work on top of that, shoot with high build 2k primer, block car and repeat as necessary, then sealer then base/clear?? What do you body guys recommend? What grits of paper?? How would you tackle this?? Is it even necessary to epoxy prime the good original paint if im not down to bare metal? I just don't want todays new products to have a bad reaction with the old paint. We are not going for a high end restoration show car. The owner knows that. I am shooting this in my garage with a homemade spray booth. The owner is going to drive this car ALOT! Any help and opinions will be great!! Thank you gentlemen!

 

[Mister 4x4]

That's a great question. I know blending in repaired areas can be tough - especially, if the color's not perfectly matched (to include the proper amount of fade due to age & sunburn, etc.). I agree that it might be better to re-shoot the whole thing - that way, you'll know for sure what you have all over the entire car.

I know I replaced the corner panels of my '80 Jeep CJ-7 before I bought the Mustang, and it turned out great. Even though I took a piece of the original panel to the paint shop for them to match it all up, it didn't come out 100% perfect, color-wise... and even then, in the sun you can tell where the new paint blended into the old mostly because the metal flake laid down differently. I used custom mixed rattle can paint-bombs & U-POL clear coat, and I love how the finish came out... but the "blend" is more noticeable than I would've liked. Oh well - it's a Jeep, after all.

I'll be interested to hear from the pros as well.

 

[turtle5353]

That's a great question. I know blending in repaired areas can be tough - especially, if the color's not perfectly matched (to include the proper amount of fade due to age & sunburn, etc.). I agree that it might be better to re-shoot the whole thing - that way, you'll know for sure what you have all over the entire car.

I know I replaced the corner panels of my '80 Jeep CJ-7 before I bought the Mustang, and it turned out great. Even though I took a piece of the original panel to the paint shop for them to match it all up, it didn't come out 100% perfect, color-wise... and even then, in the sun you can tell where the new paint blended into the old mostly because the metal flake laid down differently. I used custom mixed rattle can paint-bombs & U-POL clear coat, and I love how the finish came out... but the "blend" is more noticeable than I would've liked. Oh well - it's a Jeep, after all.

I'll be interested to hear from the pros as well.

Not doing any blending Eric. Gonna paint the whole car. But want to make sure the old paint don't react with any of the new materials. That's why I was thinking about shooting whole car with epoxy primer first, to seal it all in.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Yeah... I got that, and actually agreed with your plan to paint the whole car. :whistling: :shootself:

rofl

 

[Cobra2572]

Hey guys just wanted to pick your brains for some opinions and info. I am going to be painting a 71 Mach 1 with all original paint. Never been in an accident or re-sprayed. My question is how would you go about repainting it? I know opinions on this will vary from strip it to bare metal to scuff and shoot and everything in between. I do have some patch work to do on it and I maybe putting a new fender or two on, and a hood. So should I sand everything down with 80 or 180 and shoot whole car with an epoxy primer, do all the body work on top of that, shoot with high build 2k primer, block car and repeat as necessary, then sealer then base/clear?? What do you body guys recommend? What grits of paper?? How would you tackle this?? Is it even necessary to epoxy prime the good original paint if im not down to bare metal? I just don't want todays new products to have a bad reaction with the old paint. We are not going for a high end restoration show car. The owner knows that. I am shooting this in my garage with a homemade spray booth. The owner is going to drive this car ALOT! Any help and opinions will be great!! Thank you gentlemen!

I would do the body work. Make sure the primer is sanded well back off any unscuffed paint. I would then DA with 320 and use a good scuff pad to get into the corners and crevices that will require good adhesion to make sure the new paint sticks. These areas are usually the first to flake off. I would then use a good sealer to get the car into one color, then paint with base/clear. You could use single stage paint if you have a dirt free environment but base clear gives the best finish. If it is indeed factory paint I wouldn't expect any lifting or other adverse reaction. The sealer should help with any issues like that. Good luck.

Dave

 

[Jim and Jutta]

That car looks pretty darn nice to have it's original paint, not many of them left. Doesn't address your question but around here it would win more shows being a survivor than with new paint. I fully understand the owner wants what he wants, look like a very nice canvass. Looking forward to seeing the finished car.

 

[Qcode351mach]

I think the real answer would depend on budget and what your being paid for the job. That will dictate which process to use. As a example if your being paid lets say 5k for the entire job including materials there's no way you would want to strip the car to bare metal unless of course you want to work for free and donate your own money on top of it. So in order to answer the question we need to know what the materials allowance is and what the labor allowance is. Once those numbers are in place you can then figure out, tailor the best method that's fair to you and the owner.

 

[turtle5353]

I think the real answer would depend on budget and what your being paid for the job. That will dictate which process to use. As a example if your being paid lets say 5k for the entire job including materials there's no way you would want to strip the car to bare metal unless of course you want to work for free and donate your own money on top of it. So in order to answer the question we need to know what the materials allowance is and what the labor allowance is. Once those numbers are in place you can then figure out, tailor the best method that's fair to you and the owner.

Scott, right now I'm planning to budget approx $3,000 for materials. As far as labor I'm hoping to be able to put in 200-250 man hours on the project to make it worth my while. If I go a little over that I'm ok up to around 275 hrs. This includes replacing quarter panel, trunk pan, drop offs, tail light panel, body and paint work. Let me know what you think. I also plan on removing the doors, hood, and fenders to make sure I get everything painted right.

 

[mach71351c]

Hey Kevin, My paint job was 4k in materials and rite at 350 hrs. That's not counting the metal work. Just mud,blocking,painting,color sanding clearing twice,then polishing.

My brother and my buddy both have been working in production shops for 40 years and agreed that my original paint was fine to paint over. I think the over all statement was " Don't over think this body work crap" and ' It will be fine with quality product"

The original paint was sanded with 320 after the body work was done.

 

[Austin Vert]

Hi Kevin,

I will PM you.

Greg.

 

[Qcode351mach]

Hey Kevin, My paint job was 4k in materials and rite at 350 hrs. That's not counting the metal work. Just mud,blocking,painting,color sanding clearing twice,then polishing.

My brother and my buddy both have been working in production shops for 40 years and agreed that my original paint was fine to paint over. I think the over all statement was " Don't over think this body work crap" and ' It will be fine with quality product"

The original paint was sanded with 320 after the body work was done.

Thats a pretty good base line to give you a idea of what it takes. Your material budget should be ok and I think after all the metal work and mud work your border line on whats going to be left for paint. SO a production type job is what you need to do. No stripping down to bare metal.

Heres what I would do:

BEFORE ANY WORK BEGINS !! A complete wash down with dawn dish washing soap-- if possible also power wash entire car

Complete wash down after that with spi water borne wax and grease remover.

Metal work

Filler work

sand entire car scuff old paint with 220-320 on D.A.

prime entire car with high build 2k primer let sit for 2 weeks

guide coat block sand with 220 to start just for initial cut finish with 400 wet.

Though cleaning and de-grease

You can use spi epoxy as a sealer (follow directions to do so ) or what ever paint system your using should have a sealer.

Seal than paint.

 

[turtle5353]

Sounds good guys thanks for the input. I know I am going to go over my hours but im ok with that... I have all winter! Im glad im at least in the ballpark.

 

[turtle5353]

Hey Kevin, My paint job was 4k in materials and rite at 350 hrs. That's not counting the metal work. Just mud,blocking,painting,color sanding clearing twice,then polishing.

My brother and my buddy both have been working in production shops for 40 years and agreed that my original paint was fine to paint over. I think the over all statement was " Don't over think this body work crap" and ' It will be fine with quality product"

The original paint was sanded with 320 after the body work was done.

Looks good Mike! Did you spray the car with doors and fenders on? Looks like it from pics but just wanted to ask. I was worried about getting good coverage and adhesion by the door hinges. Really tough to get in there. I was planning on pulling the fenders and doors and shooting the back sides and jambs then reassembling it and shooting rest of car.

 

[Mister 4x4]

My observations only - I'm not claiming any kind of professional experience, of course (I visited the body shop that painted mine quite frequently and saw the different stages of disassembly, body work, reassembly, and painting).

You can pull the fenders, doors, hood, and trunk lid, and paint the hard-to-get areas, then reassemble prior to painting the main body. I've heard the term "jamming" used for that (spray the door jams and corresponding areas, etc.). When the car's all back together, then you're only shooting the 'outside' color with the 'jams and hard to get areas already done. I think this is more of a big deal when it comes to spraying metallic paints, so the flakes and particulate content lay down the same from panel to panel.

I'm sure you probably already knew this, and/or Greg probably covered that in his PM to you as well (he's pretty thorough).

 

[mach71351c]

Kevin, we blew the car apart and jammed it. Then reassembled.

 

[Austin Vert]

My observations only - I'm not claiming any kind of professional experience, of course (I visited the body shop that painted mine quite frequently and saw the different stages of disassembly, body work, reassembly, and painting).

You can pull the fenders, doors, hood, and trunk lid, and paint the hard-to-get areas, then reassemble prior to painting the main body. I've heard the term "jamming" used for that (spray the door jams and corresponding areas, etc.). When the car's all back together, then you're only shooting the 'outside' color with the 'jams and hard to get areas already done. I think this is more of a big deal when it comes to spraying metallic paints, so the flakes and particulate content lay down the same from panel to panel.

I'm sure you probably already knew this, and/or Greg probably covered that in his PM to you as well (he's pretty thorough).

Too much to cover on the typewriter Eric - i'll have to phone him.

Greg.