Windage tray

[RacerX]

I was told by an engine builder/friend who runs a reputable machine shop, that if you replace the Ford main bearing bolts with studs, you have to align bore the block? Can any of you experienced guys confirm this?

I've heard that you need to do that when you replace rod bolts with ARP hardware, to cut and hone the rod caps, but not with mains when you add studs because of the metal thickness.

 

[tony-muscle]

I have been communicating with Kevin from Ishihara-Johnson Scrapers. He has been very helpful and indicated that he can make an scraper with an offset to account for the longer stroke for the same cost. I am leaning towards this alternative in lieu of the windage tray. I like the fact that this is cutting the oil cloud right at the crank so it should be more effective. Like everything there are pros and cons. The installation of the scrapers is very tricky and will take some patience. My oil pan has baffles to control the oil movement down by the sump so maybe I can weld on some meshes to separate the oil between sump and crank.

 

[basstrix]

I've heard that you need to do that when you replace rod bolts with ARP hardware, to cut and hone the rod caps, but not with mains when you add studs because of the metal thickness.

Yeah, the shop I worked for always reconditioned after rod bolt replacement. We mostly did OEM rebuilds....don't even recall any jobs where we replaced the main bolts....maybe because we didn't offer align boring and those jobs were sent elsewhere?

 

[tony-muscle]

So I placed an order for the scrapers and also the screen he sells so I will make my own windage tray attached to the oil pan instead of the mains. I will probably have some extra screen if someone is interested in sharing the cost.

 

[basstrix]

What is the gasket situation with the scrapers?

 

[tony-muscle]

What is the gasket situation with the scrapers?

That's where it gets trickier. You install the scraper first with gasket maker against the block. You need to adjust the scraper to fit within ~1 mm of the rod bolts as they rotate. You also have to allow an enough gap for axial movement of the crank and rods. There is enough play between the scraper holes and oil pan bolts to mess this alignment so you have to align it very well before letting the gasket maker to set. Once the gasket maker sets between the scraper and block you then proceed to install the oil pan to the block using gasket maker again and making sure you don't move the scraper. You also have to add enough gasket maker between the end oil seal channels and scraper. I am already prepared for it to take me at least two tries. Many people out there using these scrapers with great reviews so with patience it should be doable.

Here are the instructions attached.

 

[Don C]

That's where it gets trickier. You install the scraper first with gasket maker against the block. You need to adjust the scraper to fit within ~1 mm of the rod bolts as they rotate. You also have to allow an enough gap for axial movement of the crank and rods. There is enough play between the scraper holes and oil pan bolts to mess this alignment so you have to align it very well before letting the gasket maker to set. Once the gasket maker sets between the scraper and block you then proceed to install the oil pan to the block using gasket maker again and making sure you don't move the scraper. You also have to add enough gasket maker between the end oil seal channels and scraper. I am already prepared for it to take me at least two tries. Many people out there using these scrapers with great reviews so with patience it should be doable.

Here are the instructions attached.

Thank you for posting that, Tony. My oil pan has a scraper in the bottom of the oil pan that runs about a third of the length of it, so I am looking for something a little better.

 

[tony-muscle]

Just found a thread from last year where @MAD IRISHMAN worked with Ishihara-Johnson to develop the scrapers. Any feedback for us?
https://7173mustangs.com/threads/351c-crank-scrapers.42686/

 

[basstrix]

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to drill 2-3 holes in the scraper, then match drill the pan rail and countersink for flatheads? That wouldn't be feasible for an assembled block, but might work well on a fresh build?

 

[tony-muscle]

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to drill 2-3 holes in the scraper, then match drill the pan rail and countersink for flatheads? That wouldn't be feasible for an assembled block, but might work well on a fresh build?

I thought of something similar but drilling inside of the pan rail if the scraper extends inwards along where the mains are located. If this is the case you don't even need to countersink. This may be possible to do under the car. These holes should be small enough to not weaken the block, or not?

 

[Cleveland Crush]

I thought of something similar but drilling inside of the pan rail if the scraper extends inwards along where the mains are located. If this is the case you don't even need to countersink. This may be possible to do under the car. These holes should be small enough to not weaken the block, or not?

View attachment 85269

Zero problem with drill and tapping saddles where you indicated. Put a light chamfer on the drilled holes. Preferred fastener for this procedure is Allen button head 10-24 with Loctite. Tap for about 1/4"-3/8ths actual thread engagement (with scrapper installed).

 

[James Bond]

A long time ago (30 or more years), I had some buddies that raced sprint cars and they hand made oil scrapers like the what tony-muscle is showing and attached it just to the inside of the oil pan as you guys are thinking of doing. This was done on a stock Chevy 350 block. I cannot recall the fastener size, maybe a 12-32 button head at multiple locations with Loctite. Not sure of the clearance between your block and crossmember (right angled drill motor), but you should be able to drill and tap without removing the engine. Never did see any block failure because of these small holes and they were pushed to well over 500 HP.

 

[tony-muscle]

A long time ago (30 or more years), I had some buddies that raced sprint cars and they hand made oil scrapers like the what tony-muscle is showing and attached it just to the inside of the oil pan as you guys are thinking of doing. This was done on a stock Chevy 350 block. I cannot recall the fastener size, maybe a 12-32 button head at multiple locations with Loctite. Not sure of the clearance between your block and crossmember (right angled drill motor), but you should be able to drill and tap without removing the engine. Never did see any block failure because of these small holes and they were pushed to well over 500 HP.

I think with two holes it should be fine for the purpose of locating the scraper so I can work around the crossmember.