F-ing HOA issue!

72mokk1 said:

Most cities have code enforcement, my son thought he would park some "project" cars at my house and I told him "does this look like a dead car parking lot?" IMO, HOA's have too much power when they can fine you for the color of your front door.

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All perspective. Cities have codes but much red tape to get though. If anyone was smart they would look at the HOA bylaws before moving in. I'm about property value and don't want big rigs, unmowwed yards and horrible colors in the neighborhood. But I also would n0ot move to a place that had draconian laws. That's why we all get to pick were we live!

jep1701 said:

All perspective. Cities have codes but much red tape to get though. If anyone was smart they would look at the HOA bylaws before moving in. I'm about property value and don't want big rigs, unmowwed yards and horrible colors in the neighborhood. But I also would n0ot move to a place that had draconian laws. That's why we all get to pick were we live!

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Here all you have to do is call code enforcement, my neighbor called on me for a house in the back yard that was here when I bought the place and yes it is permitted. We drove around the neighborhood checking out other houses, how well they were kept, before buying. If half the street were junk car parking we would have passed on this one. What do you get for your HOA fees besides Karens that walk the neighborhood making sure your grass is not taller than the allotted length or a 69 Mustang parked on the street?

In an answer to your question, depending on the particular HOA, many HOA's have lots of landscaped areas all around the neighborhood, and most have landscaped and lighted entrances, sometimes gated. Many HOA's have actual parks placed amongst the housing, and lots of trees, bike paths and walking paths etc. Dues collected pay for the mowing and landscaping of all of these areas, labor costs for Holiday decorating of the entrances, maintaining public areas and community pools. In my HOA, we are one of the few areas, that have a creek running behind our backyard which separates our property from the property behind us , the HOA funds keeping that creek clear and cleaned out. I'm not defending all of the HOA's, just answering the question. Buying here was a no-brainer as the huge willow trees, huge shady lawn and babbling brook creek were definitely tie-breakers, my backyard is heaven. Now, I've got mucho dinero tied up in my dragboats, and I need to run them occasionally. Before I did so, I asked the officers if it would be a problem, they discouraged me to do so. I get it, that's why I inquired, but I still run 'em. I just take one to work with me and run it up there. I work at The Blower Shop so we all understand supercharged engine volume. When I first moved in, I re-painted my house, didn't ask for an approval from the officers, just used common sense ( which is not so common today I suppose) and chose a color both my wife and I liked, but not some color you'd see on a beach house in Mexico. It's not cow-towing to the by-laws, I'm of my own mind, but I'm not trying to act like some snowflake either. I can work with it, while working around it.

Well, thank you for SO MUCH support and amazing responses with great ideas and advice. I really appreciate this group for the creativity and analytical support. I of course started this journey by seeking out the “rules”. At first, they couldn’t even be produced, but the HOA inspector provided the obscure document he referred to. It clearly states “Degratiated Paint” in almost a footnote format. Not sure if it is even a word or spelled correctly. Funny part is—I work for PPG Automotive Refinish, and have worked in Automotive collision and paint for over 40 years. So I am my own expert on paint refinishing. I have documented the photos I took, and plan to do a second tour to capture new pictures and confirm existing.

I called the former owner as he lives a block and a half away to see if there were prior HOA issues. There actually were, but it was a missing license plate and cardboard under the car they were upset about. I asked the HOA inspector why this was ‘suddenly an issue’—his reply, oh this isn’t sudden, i have observed this car for months. And it is a nice classic car, but it has paint issues. I can help you with an appeal if you would like. *He would not admit or acknowledge that a neighbor (aka the witch that lives too the North of me) complained, but almost everyone I have spoken with believes this has to be driven by a complaint. She is the only one that would complain…

On another note, I have found a car cover company that can create the “POS Car Cover”. I am in talks with them. It is pricey, but it would be fun.

Moving—Not realistic. Nice suggestion but think about pulling up all your stuff and finding a new home. Some day I will, but not right now.

Fight or Cover? That is my dilemma.

I'd challenge the HOA on the grounds that "degratiated" isn't even a word. Make then go through the hoops of correcting their bylaws and get back to you. We all know it's probably supposed to be "degraded", but "supposed to mean" won't fly in the legal world.

Degraded is also a matter of perspective. What about if the theme of your build is degraded or patina paint? It is degraded for some but the "right" finish for others. With all subjective terminology there should be more details so since there aren't it should be appealable.

OMG, I see the guy who send the letter. A Mike Johnson like dude with his new Tesla on the driveway that he can barely afford !

You can play the game as your cover idea suggests, but being the weird guy in my street (you know, the guy making grinding noises every weekend, shaking up the neighbourhood every time he starts his car), I know from experience, that best way to deal with that, is actually to go talk to them.
This person, likely investing his own time and love being the president director in chief super important dude of the block has simply judged you!
You are now ranked in his mind as the black sheep that will make the properties value drop crazy!

I think you should throw a "street owners" barbecue and make sure you go personally invite this person. I know from experience that this pays off and saves you loads of annoyances and irritation in the future. It is amazing how once people know each other how things change.

Oh and, no matter what, I would do nothing about the car. It is parked on own property and USA is a free country no?

First let me say I am not a lawyer nor currently in an HOA covered neighborhood. I can tell you from my past experience that an HOA needs to be a legal entity in the state of TN to enforce any covenants. It may be worth your time to research if the HOA is a legal entity in your state. If not, the neighborhood has no ability to enforce the covenant and it can only be done by an individual or group of individuals that will bare the legal expense. Furthermore, I would expect that the wording of the covenants if they are "degratiated" are not legally defendable by the HOA as it does not provide a standard by which the law can define paint condition. It needs needs to be clearly understandable by the "common person" to be able to be enforced. These may be a couple of options to consider. I do think they car is very acceptable and does not pose a pariah to the neighborhood.

I vote beater car cover AND a beater car block party. Love the car! Clearly they have no clue what an eye sore is… No way no how could I ever put up with an HOA.

@Spike Morelli well stated....I began typing up a reply to this question, the other day, and got sidetracked....glad I didn't...you said it well.

The HOA I belong to (and for at least another month, am on the board) has an appeals process. Homeowners can request to plead their case to the board....that's what I'd suggest (assuming your HOA has one, too)...show them pictures of your car, let them know it's licensed and registered....I know that matters a lot in our HOA. Let them know that "denigrated" a subjective term and you don't think your paint fits that description. I'd like to think they are reasonable and will reconsider your case.

basstrix said:

@Spike Morelli well stated....I began typing up a reply to this question, the other day, and got sidetracked....glad I didn't...you said it well.

The HOA I belong to (and for at least another month, am on the board) has an appeals process. Homeowners can request to plead their case to the board....that's what I'd suggest (assuming your HOA has one, too)...show them pictures of your car, let them know it's licensed and registered....I know that matters a lot in our HOA. Let them know that "denigrated" a subjective term and you don't think your paint fits that description. I'd like to think they are reasonable and will reconsider your case.

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I hate HOAs as much as anyone could ever imagine. I live in a rural area north of Columbus Ohio which is the fastest growing county in Ohio and I had a heated exchange of words at a zoning meeting with a neighbor. She and some others on my road have moved in farm country from a HOA environment and has just caused me personally over $100K loss to my farm property. I have divided off a lot to keep my grass airstrip which went before a zoning commission for approval. She has convinced the commission that I didn't deserve a variance so I had to keep 8 acres of the original farm which could have been sold with the farm. Since that January 2024 meeting she has her house listed for sale and I am stuck with 8 acres extra that I will now have to maintain. Her closing statement was "This rural area needs a good HOA to protect her property from the airplane traffic". At 76 years old we original owners in the area are being forced out of our dream of a lifetime. A sign indicating an airstrip was here long before any houses were on this road. The money that I am losing is not pocket change in any housing area in America. I was originally planning to sell the farm to keep it as a farm but now have decided to offer it to a developer for houses as the transients was wanting a large house in a farming community for coziness.

Sorry to hear, Bill.

I had a buddy - Curtis - who bought a home in an HOA. Before even looking at houses, he told the real estate agent "NO HOA!" Put in offer, gets accepted, and first he hears of HOA was at closing. Luckily, his lawyer grabbed the paperwork, and said he needed to review before it was signed. About three or 4 years later, he went to the town, got a permit and put up a tower - I'm sorry - "Antenna support structure"
When he hears from the HOA, it is, and oh by the way, you forgot to sign up. His lawyer told them to go soak their heads.
Turns out, only legal recourse they had was against the person who sold him the property. And when they went to sue, they told the neighbors there was a special assessment over $2K - they told the board no, and HOA went out of business.
Not that it applies - you would have to have all agree to dissolve, and my bet is won't happen.
Make nice with neighbors - more flies with honey type of thing.

69 Rustang said:

Do you know where we can get a custom car cover? Read on…We received a letter from our HOA about my son’s ‘69 Mustang Coupe. It is a running, licensed, insured, regularly driven, and often complimented/purchase offered vehicle. The HOA claims it is an eyesore. “The paint is severely degratiated”. They insist we cover it or garage it. Well—the garage is full, and covering it every day and uncovering it is a pain. So no. We were discussing this tonight and the idea of a custom car cover came up—here goes:
1) car cover with the outside of the cover printed with the image of a really crappy looking car. Like a 82 Chevy Citation, with faded, chipped, missing paint, moldings missing, rust through. A different color fender and door. Broken glass…etc! License plate that has letters F U HOA… Does anyone make something like that? We love this idea!
2) fully clear car cover. I can buy plastic and we can use that, but something more durable and permanent would be better. That way they still have to look at it, but the car is covered.
3) our long term goal is to use a clear coat on the outside to preserve the patina. it will look better, not sure it will satisfy the SS, I mean HOA, but it will protect the car’s patina a bit longer.
The sad part of this—within the HOA’s own parking lot I took pictures of 2 cars with severe paint issues. I then drove 4 blocks and took pictures of 12 more cars. If I have to do it, there are a lot of others that they are going to have to fight too. I think I may have a legal fight ahead—but I really want the “crappy looking car cover”. Anyone know of such a thing?

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Yep I had a few loose cannons going around eyeballing everybody else's properties for defects. They were covenant Nazis. I do not live in a HOA, however, we have a neighborhood association ran by a few zealots. I got on their Johansen acres site and let them have it. I pointed out the people who were taking walks and going around crying about everybody else's properties. I also referenced the others who had to change, pay expenses and rearrange their properties to please them. At the end of my little rant, I told them they have succeeded in pitting the neighborhood against each other instead of being a community who could be joining forces to eliminate crime. I also called them a bunch of backstabbing hypocrites for going behind people's backs by calling the city instead of facing them and complaining directly to the owners. I ended with I own this house outright, If I continue to receive complaints, I will sell my house to ANTIFA or convert it to a drug rehab. I haven't received any more complaints.

Lots of ranting and raving going on here. Clearly none of us like HOAs. I would never live in a neighborhood that has an HOA. My parents did, and it was a nightmare in so many ways.

If I was in the OP's unfortunate situation, here's what I would do:

1. Obtain a written copy of the latest HOA rules, regulations, and by-laws, and then read them carefully and completely, making note of any possible enforceable violations, if any.
2. Obtain a written copy of the jurisdictional (city, county, state) covenants and restrictions on the property, and then read them carefully and completely, making note of any possible enforceable violations, if any.
3. Turn all of the above paperwork over to my attorney and have him read them over carefully to see if the car is truly in violation.
4. If the attorney finds no clear, enforceable violation, I would have the attorney draft a letter to the HOA stating this to be the case and further pointing out that the car in question is inspected, licensed, and insured in accordance with state law.
5. If the attorney does find a clear, enforceable violation, then I would deal with it as necessary. Most HOAs have a review process through which a variance can be requested. I would visit, in person, all of the neighbors who have line-of-sight visibility to the place where the car is parked, and ask them if they have any complaint about the car's cosmetic condition. Make note of all of their names, addresses, and responses, and present that information at the HOA review. It's possible that even one "I don't approve" from a neighbor might be enough to make the HOA drop the hammer on you, but if all the neighbors who can see the car are okay with it, then you may have some leverage with the HOA. Worst case, you'll end up buying and using a car cover. Not the end of the world.

Best of luck to you. Let's hope that cooler heads prevail.

72conv said:

Lots of ranting and raving going on here. Clearly none of us like HOAs. I would never live in a neighborhood that has an HOA. My parents did, and it was a nightmare in so many ways.

If I was in the OP's unfortunate situation, here's what I would do:

1. Obtain a written copy of the latest HOA rules, regulations, and by-laws, and then read them carefully and completely, making note of any possible enforceable violations, if any.
2. Obtain a written copy of the jurisdictional (city, county, state) covenants and restrictions on the property, and then read them carefully and completely, making note of any possible enforceable violations, if any.
3. Turn all of the above paperwork over to my attorney and have him read them over carefully to see if the car is truly in violation.
4. If the attorney finds no clear, enforceable violation, I would have the attorney draft a letter to the HOA stating this to be the case and further pointing out that the car in question is inspected, licensed, and insured in accordance with state law.
5. If the attorney does find a clear, enforceable violation, then I would deal with it as necessary. Most HOAs have a review process through which a variance can be requested. I would visit, in person, all of the neighbors who have line-of-sight visibility to the place where the car is parked, and ask them if they have any complaint about the car's cosmetic condition. Make note of all of their names, addresses, and responses, and present that information at the HOA review. It's possible that even one "I don't approve" from a neighbor might be enough to make the HOA drop the hammer on you, but if all the neighbors who can see the car are okay with it, then you may have some leverage with the HOA. Worst case, you'll end up buying and using a car cover. Not the end of the world.

Best of luck to you. Let's hope that cooler heads prevail.

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One of my neighbors went before the zoning commission a week after I did was told by the commission that he was required to tear down the new 3 months old garage he had built. It is a 5 stall all metal building that is a very nice addion to the property. He has so far spent as much money in legal fees as the building has cost. He has bought another house about 10 miles away to escape the morons in my area and is more conducive to raising his kids and keeping his collection of expensive cars. The people from towns should stay where they belong with their infamous HOAs.

#57. The HOAs can be a pita. But in my case I live by the rules and knew that going in. I've lived in both non HOA and HOA. Given that we don't have acreage to conceal things that folks might do to their property I find this safer way of protecting my asset. Yes, a HOA can suck but I chose it. Next time I probably won't!

HOAs can get put of hand, but the flipside is that without them (or decent county ordinances) everyone is on an honor system to be a good considerate neighbor. So, while most people are, there is always the guy who is not.

I have a new neighbor building a new house. I have 3.5 acres and he has about 8-12. Trees are on the edges of both our properties. His was farmed until a year or two ago. Nice big flat open field. As long as he respects setbacks, he can pretty much build anywhere he wants. So he picked the spot as close to my house as he could get. About 300'. The back of his house is in front of and to the right of mine. Between us there is woods about 150' deep. He has cleared his side up to the property line, about half that distance.
I get to look at the back of his house, especially in the winter.
But hey, it's his property, he doesn't need my permission.

So last fall they had a party. Hadn't started on his house yet, just had the barn/shed/rv garage. Big fireworks display. Like the kind a subdivision or municipality would have, not what you buy at the fireworks stand. No more than 500' from my house.
And then there were the 6 or 8 fireballs and conclusive blasts that shook my house and everything in it.

Last Monday night, 8-ish, was 30 -50 rounds from an assault rifle (apparently has a very quick finger). Neighbors and two roads around him. Don't know where or what he was using for target practice, but I am the only one that is uphill (marginally) from him.

The new neighbor hasn't bothered to introduce himself yet.

detritusmaximus said:

HOAs can get put of hand, but the flipside is that without them (or decent county ordinances) everyone is on an honor system to be a good considerate neighbor. So, while most people are, there is always the guy who is not.

I have a new neighbor building a new house. I have 3.5 acres and he has about 8-12. Trees are on the edges of both our properties. His was farmed until a year or two ago. Nice big flat open field. As long as he respects setbacks, he can pretty much build anywhere he wants. So he picked the spot as close to my house as he could get. About 300'. The back of his house is in front of and to the right of mine. Between us there is woods about 150' deep. He has cleared his side up to the property line, about half that distance.
I get to look at the back of his house, especially in the winter.
But hey, it's his property, he doesn't need my permission.

So last fall they had a party. Hadn't started on his house yet, just had the barn/shed/rv garage. Big fireworks display. Like the kind a subdivision or municipality would have, not what you buy at the fireworks stand. No more than 500' from my house.
And then there were the 6 or 8 fireballs and conclusive blasts that shook my house and everything in it.

Last Monday night, 8-ish, was 30 -50 rounds from an assault rifle (apparently has a very quick finger). Neighbors and two roads around him. Don't know where or what he was using for target practice, but I am the only one that is uphill (marginally) from him.

The new neighbor hasn't bothered to introduce himself yet.

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I'd say he ALREADY made quite the introduction!!!