1972 Convertible resto mod

California 72 · Sep 27, 2024

tpj71mach said:
I used shorties on my 71 only because I had long tube headers on my 73 Mach 1 and they scraped on speed bumps a lot.
It still performed well on dyno, (about 430 HP / 450 torque) although to be honest we never did do a comparison with long tube headers to see how much power they rob.

By the way, sharp looking motor! Love that Ford Blue. What silver is that you used? Was contemplating painting the tranny and had thought of just all Ford Blue but that's a sharp look. As I've been scrubbing, soaking, burning and blasting the layers off, I've found Black, blue and even a little red. There's an old knock-knock joke hiding in there, but I'll refrain.

Sheriff41 said:
I'll get a picture of it for you this weekend.

Chuck, Thanks!

tpj71mach said:
I want to start out clarifying, I am not an expert, especially on Mustangs. It looks to me that your pipes head upwards to the manifolds like most exhaust front pipes. They appear to start to head up toward the manifold outlets right in front of the equalizer pipe. If you intend to use long tube headers you will want them to head straight forward to meet the header collector. If they are heading up, you may need to cut back to the H-pipe. IMO, if you are reusing the exhaust, I would cut as little as possible (or nothing at all) until you install the engine and trans with the headers and see how the angle is going to the collectors and cut what you have to cut then. Is the H pipe welded to the mufflers, or can you separate it from the mufflers and get it out from under the car so it's not in the way of the engine/trans install?

The goal is to keep things minimal in the cutting part since I would really like to avoid having it look like a crazed mechanic with a sawzall stepped in. I'm just crazed, my father was the mechanic. Which reminds me, that's what I forgot, sawzall blades. Dang it!

Finally finished errands, needed more wire brushes and some Acetone plus some other supplies to start painting parts. If we can get the weather to co-operate a little, it would help but I believe I can keep the humidity down in the garage by keeping the door down. Need to work on conditioning things over the winter. Even with all the insulation, it does get into the high 40's to low 50's when outside is in the 30's.

Time to get to work. Just a little behind on the day. Later and thanks again gang.

Steve McMahan · Sep 27, 2024

Just to respond to your question on the vapor recovery, I believe it’s one of those systems that work very well and there are only downsides in deleting it. As you said, not a daily driver, so more needed to vent the vapors since I suspect it will spend time garaged. Others more knowledgeable will chime in with their experiences. I say keep it.

California 72 · Sep 27, 2024

Thanks for the follow up. That’s a good point and after hearing it makes sense Could be a reason why you can actually get a few replacement parts. Can chalk it up to one good emission part that makes a difference.

California 72 · Sep 28, 2024

As explained in another topic and post, because I took a more maniacal, wreck-it-Ralph approach to cleaning the firewall, today is pull the column day. While I’m ripping that out, might as well pull the booster to avoid any one of a dozen ways I can muck that up too.

So, where to put all the parts that are in the front seats? Without being able to build a shed, that’s another “George Costanza” like issue that’s far tmi for this or any form of description so, it’s now, going to be a lesson similar to, what it takes to fit a Boss 429 in a ‘65 notch back. There’s an interesting idea. lol
Actually, I’m going to need to experiment on how much weight will a closed and latched convertible top will hold. So far, it’s a NACA hood, sport grille, bumper, side mouldings and a rusted fuel line.

California 72 · Sep 28, 2024

All in a days work. Have an opportunity to see, for myself, what condition the interior floor pans are in.

I’m definitely encouraged to approach the remaining interior when I get the motor bay sprayed. I’m really hoping this week.

At least that way, I can also spray the front wells too and start reassembling the suspension. It's the underside of the car that I'm concerned about cleaning as well as the rear suspension. There's at least an inch of mud caked on the undercarriage and that's even after a couple trips to the self-spray wash. I have a neat setup in the garage for our yard irrigation. I ran a remote hook-up for the end of season evac. When I get ready to use it I'll definitely be documenting it. It's a 1" feed so really good pressure without too much like with a pressure washer.

Now for some sorely needed organizing. The whole “Fixx" approach of “one thing leads to another” is very accurate but it’s important to rein things in when it turns into a baker’s dozen of other things. At some point I'm going to get lost in the work.

All that just because I got a little aggressive cleaning the firewall. In my defense, I had no idea the gasket on the firewall was a gasket to begin with given the name of the wall. Thought it was a plate but that’s what I think ford called a “better idea” during the ad campaign way back when. lol.

Edit: After looking at a couple other threads out there and given the detail and effort being provided to the front end, it's gonna be worth it to really detail the interior too with some of that gator skin or similar. If I want the car to last another 25 or more for the daughter and her family to enjoy, all that surface rust will need attention.
While I have the time, and as long as the body holds out, I can address everything with rust converter. Plus, I'm really thinking that it needs to go back to the Ivy Glow. It only makes sense since the jams will need attention it might as well be the original color.

bishoppeak · Sep 30, 2024

California 72 said:
View attachment 93476 View attachment 93477
View attachment 93478

All in a days work. Have an opportunity to see, for myself, what condition the interior floor pans are in.

I’m definitely encouraged to approach the remaining interior when I get the motor bay sprayed. I’m really hoping this week.

At least that way, I can also spray the front wells too and start reassembling the suspension. It's the underside of the car that I'm concerned about cleaning as well as the rear suspension. There's at least an inch of mud caked on the undercarriage and that's even after a couple trips to the self-spray wash. I have a neat setup in the garage for our yard irrigation. I ran a remote hook-up for the end of season evac. When I get ready to use it I'll definitely be documenting it. It's a 1" feed so really good pressure without too much like with a pressure washer.

Now for some sorely needed organizing. The whole “Fixx" approach of “one thing leads to another” is very accurate but it’s important to rein things in when it turns into a baker’s dozen of other things. At some point I'm going to get lost in the work.

View attachment 93479
All that just because I got a little aggressive cleaning the firewall. In my defense, I had no idea the gasket on the firewall was a gasket to begin with given the name of the wall. Thought it was a plate but that’s what I think ford called a “better idea” during the ad campaign way back when. lol.

Edit: After looking at a couple other threads out there and given the detail and effort being provided to the front end, it's gonna be worth it to really detail the interior too with some of that gator skin or similar. If I want the car to last another 25 or more for the daughter and her family to enjoy, all that surface rust will need attention.
While I have the time, and as long as the body holds out, I can address everything with rust converter. Plus, I'm really thinking that it needs to go back to the Ivy Glow. It only makes sense since the jams will need attention it might as well be the original color.

https://www.amazon.com/Undercarriag...3&psc=1&mcid=18c1c0362363317398a9f05f390232d8

California 72 · Oct 1, 2024

bishoppeak said:
https://www.amazon.com/Undercarriag...3&psc=1&mcid=18c1c0362363317398a9f05f390232d8

That's actually perfect, especially with its more targeted path. Me waiving a wand blindly under the car, no matter where it's sitting, is more difficult than it once was and since this will be performed in the garage, less chance of me losing control and taking out any sheetrock or tools. I can actually drape the rockers and firewall of car with the 6mil plastic and contain it all under the car.

While I probably won't hook up the pressure washer, need to rebuild the pump since it blew up this past spring when I cleaned the house and tried to use the PW media blaster attachment. I'm thinking the 1" waterline feed from the irrigation seasonal cleanout installed in the garage will provide enough power. Actually, it's been stubbed out for a line that would use a designated feed utilizing a pressure washer disconnect so that's easy enough finish. The plus to that is, it's metered for non-sanitary sewer usage so perfect for this situation.

Thanks, just placed the order. It'll be here Friday.

California 72 · Oct 1, 2024

Over the weekend, I posted some info after removing the steering column and booster. While performing this, I also an inventory of what might possibly be needed to add to the growing list of work. Among them were the dash, the wiring, the hydraulics for the top and the A/C system.

To approach the first item, the dash. I'll itemize the questions for everyone to respond to what they have or skip what they don't have info on.

With the dash being a modular-type assembly, at least that's what I surmised from the posts and topics, how difficult is it to remove?
Since I'm at the point where removing it might help to complete or provide easier access, is the wiring best addressed after the dash is pulled out?

The A/C system was supposedly replaced when I purchased the vehicle, but it wasn't functioning at the time due to a leak.

Is the system capable of being removed with the dash or does it need to be disassembled prior to that.
Being uncertain of the freon used, looking at things it's not a conversion so, what needs to be done to make it functional again?
If the components on the car are in fact new, what would the most likely freon be?
If not or their remanufactured, can the system be recharged, or does it need to be changed?
Is it worth it?

For the wiring, I invested a little time looking over what's available, read a couple topics here and also visited a couple other sites. One of the things I found was, it might be best to update the whole system since the car has reached that point of being dismantled. the Before following up on-line with what's available for the wiring, the idea of doing a complete update became a question.

After looking at American Auto Wire, the cost floored me given it was almost triple what my '66 F100 cost even thought that was 2016. I like the idea of an updated block with ATF fuses versus the SFE glass tube variety so that's an understood benefit. The question is, are there other wire systems ya'll have experienced, possibly more affordable as an option?

As fare as the top is concerned, once the front end is reassembled, that's probably when I'll be able to do that. In all actuality, it's probably the better reasoning to wait on the other stuff, until that point but, the firewall around the A/C condenser and heater core does need work and it's probably better to remove it to do the job correctly.

So, the dash itself would be next on the list and help understanding what I've asked above would be tremendously appreciated.

Thanks!!

tpj71mach · Oct 2, 2024

The heater and A/C box is mounted to the firewall behind the dash carrier and does not need to be removed to remove the whole dash carrier or just the instrument cluster or center pod, which ever you are planning to remove.

As far as your other A/C questions, if the A/C components have all been replaced then it would have been most likely charged with R134A freon. The A/C system in our cars was originally charged with R-12 freon that has not been manufactured for over 20 years. R-134A is the most likely freon that it would be charged with but a 134 charging station has different sized fittings than R12. If you are saying that it doesn't appear to have any conversion then being charged with 134 seems unlikely. Usually the fittings have adapters on them that thread on to the R12 sized charging valve and have R134A sized charging valves on them. If it does not have these adapters they couldn't have charged it with R134A as the charging stations wont fit the R12 charging valves. This would give me some suspicions about their claim to have recently replaced components.

The most important thing to know is that any freon is very dangerous and nothing to mess with. I would recommend taking it to a qualified shop and just have them hook up their charging station to see if there is a charge in the system. They can also then suck the system down to a vacuum to see if it can hold a vacuum. If it doesn't hold and it bleeds down then you know there is a leak. If it holds vacuum then they can charge the system with freon and if the compressor is good and the system is complete and functional the A/C will blow cold. If the system bleeds down at vacuum, then because there is a leak, they are obligated to evacuate the system to make sure there is no freon to escape into the atmosphere. This good for you, since once you are confident the system has been evacuated, you can open the lines without concern for your safety as there is no freon to leak out.

Your last question is up to you, only you can decide if it is worth it. I definitely think it is worth it, and plan to have the factory A/C hooked back up. I did a full restoration on my car that I am still in the midst of. When I had the heater / A/C box out I replaced the heater core and evaporator core so I would know that the evap core is new. Over the winter I plan to add the condenser, compressor and lines. I just got the car reassembled after painting it and am finally driving it for the first time this fall. I hope to reassemble the A/C system myself and have it professionally charged by next summer.

California 72 · Oct 2, 2024

It's been years since I did any of the A/C stuff other than the new me proof recharge cannister available from the local auto stores. That being said, once this is reassembled, the plan is directly to the repair shop is where it's headed for an alignment and the A/C service. As far as the validity of the replacement parts? I'm looking at it as if nothing was completed but, it does look like something was, because of the condition of the hose connections thru the firewall and the drain hose is also new. Albeit kinked and now fixed but that doesn't matter if I'm removing everything.

I'm thinking of taking the heater core, cooling evaporator and condenser to a core shop and have them checked. The radiator might still accompany them but I'm on the fence with that because I'd like to add a row or two and haven't invested any time in determining if a replacement radiator wouldn't be best. I could have this one cleaned checked and try and sell it or just hold on to things but the last thing we need to do is start refurbished used parts store under the house, Clean-Space or not, mostly because of ability to access in a few years but pending foundation work means everything already under there will need to be moved somewhere. Now, with all the added project details, I've got to get organized or this thing is never getting back together. It's literally like the car exploded in the small space of our garage and while I'm lucky enough to have one, I can do better.

Greatly appreciate the info and pic. If there are any additional pics that you might find relevant and would like to share, please do.

California 72 · Oct 3, 2024

Found a set of 4V stock exhaust manifolds here from 71TexasBoss and did buy them.
The whole engine rebuild remains in limbo because of current availability with the cam, in reality it’s been any cam I’ve found. Everything everywhere is OoS.

The info above would be enough for the limbo explanation but as fate would have it, as I was shifting things around yesterday, the original cam took a dive out of a box on an upper wall shelf and broke into pieces. I had wrapped it up well but the angle it hit with was enough to also take a chunk out of the concrete floor.

To top it off, the container I was soaking some things in a degreaser solution leaked into another box containing the lifters.

Considering this soak was used a few weeks before, the solution dried and the lifter rusted and a touch deeper than slight surface type. I probably could’ve polished it out but it doesn’t really matter any longer.

So, even the option of this ending up a minimal and just the new heads with a rotating assembly refresh, I’m down a cam and lifters.
So, as the stomach turns, I’m moving on to other options of work.

After mentioning the painting process hopefully commencing soon, had a couple questions.

Again, not a concourse car, I do like accuracy. So, what in the motor bay was painted another color, what was that color and what was the part.
I get the air cleaner assembly and the fuel vapor canister are Ford Blue but there’s the tower braces, top shock mount and a few other things. Also what was just natural and unpainted?

The other question would be, parts made up of components like spindles and assorted pieces, separately and after assembly or just one or the other?

Not looking to save time, just the better approach. Again, even though outdoors weather is not a concern, humidity will always be so any bare metal at a seam or connection point could be compromised.

Thanks again for any and all help.

tpj71mach · Oct 3, 2024

I'm sorry to hear about your cam and lifters. Maybe it is the universe telling you a new cam is the right way to go.

As far as I could determine when I was doing my engine compartment, the braces are supposed to be slop gray, I bought a couple aerosol cans from NPD to spray mine, they offer a lighter and darker slop gray. The upper shocks mounts were originally coated steel. I painted mine with Eastwood 2X Detail gray, to replicate this and seal them up. They also sell the detail gray in non-activator spray as well, probably not as durable of a finish, but you don't have to use the whole can the same day you activate it or have it cure in the can.. The outer shock braces were also slop gray as well as some of the headlight and hood latch support brackets. I tried to find out what should be what color before I actually laid down any paint. I chose these colors because they seemed to me to be the consensus on what the "correct" colors were. My car had been rattle canned all semi-gloss black and I media blasted everything to bare metal and then coated with black epoxy primer, so didn't have any indication what color the parts were originally.

I was told by a few members here that Ford liked to change it up and the slop gray could be lighter or darker depending on the day. This explains why NPD offers two shades of it, I guess. A guy I met at a car show that told me he restores Mustangs, said that he has seen the slop gray look almost green on some original cars he has seen. I attached some pics of the colors I used, I know the shocks and springs are supposed to be black, I was looking for some color separation and I painted the shocks Ford blue and added Motor Craft stickers and the springs gray to stand out more. All black looked a little like is was rattle-can all together to me, rather than they were painted as separate pieces and assembled afterwards.

tpj71mach · Oct 3, 2024

California 72 said:
By the way, sharp looking motor! Love that Ford Blue. What silver is that you used? Was contemplating painting the tranny and had thought of just all Ford Blue but that's a sharp look. As I've been scrubbing, soaking, burning and blasting the layers off, I've found Black, blue and even a little red. There's an old knock-knock joke hiding in there, but I'll refrain.

Chuck, Thanks!

The goal is to keep things minimal in the cutting part since I would really like to avoid having it look like a crazed mechanic with a sawzall stepped in. I'm just crazed, my father was the mechanic. Which reminds me, that's what I forgot, sawzall blades. Dang it!

Finally finished errands, needed more wire brushes and some Acetone plus some other supplies to start painting parts. If we can get the weather to co-operate a little, it would help but I believe I can keep the humidity down in the garage by keeping the door down. Need to work on conditioning things over the winter. Even with all the insulation, it does get into the high 40's to low 50's when outside is in the 30's.

Time to get to work. Just a little behind on the day. Later and thanks again gang.

I have had really good luck with Dupli-Color Ceramic Engine Enamel. I have used it on my drivetrain parts on all of my cars, it holds up well. The trans was painted cast coat aluminum and cast coat iron from that line of paints. Here is a link to their website showing all of the colors they offer.

https://www.duplicolor.com/product/engine-enamel-with-ceramic/

California 72 · Oct 3, 2024

tpj71mach said:
I have had really good luck with Dupli-Color Ceramic Engine Enamel. I have used it on my drivetrain parts on all of my cars, it holds up well. The trans was painted cast coat aluminum and cast coat iron from that line of paints. Here is a link to their website showing all of the colors they offer.

https://www.duplicolor.com/product/engine-enamel-with-ceramic/

Not familiar with that line, definitely worth looking into. Thanks

Was just checking Eastwood site for the detail, they also have a spray grey for cast iron. Are you happier with the Eastwood or Dupli-color paints?

tpj71mach · Oct 3, 2024

California 72 said:
Not familiar with that line, definitely worth looking into. Thanks

Was just checking Eastwood site for the detail, they also have a spray grey for cast iron. Are you happier with the Eastwood or Dupli-color paints?

I only use the Dupli-Color Ceramic on my engine and drivetrain parts because it withstands heat. I also like the color of the cast coat iron from dupli-color personally, it depends on what you prefer. The Slop Gray from NPD and the Detail gray from Eastwood have held up well also though.

California 72 · Oct 8, 2024

California 72 said:
View attachment 93423

So, after some investigation, I’ve found that the reason for the weld was the original version was damaged. The original version was the double grille support for the ‘71. A friend at the local club explained the single support didn’t appear immediately in the ‘72 production. My production date was summer ‘71 and delivery 19 September 1971.
The one interesting thing is also disheartening, the support was installed on my birthday in 1971 as far as the date stamp shows. That's actually pretty cool but, now the search of the double support starts. I may get that chance to try my hand at making a second sport lamp grille bracket if I can get one. So far, not looking so good. Well, prepared for reusing the Frankenstein piece if so. I never would have known the difference if I hadn't done any of the current work.

California 72 · Oct 9, 2024

Yesterday, was spent measuring taper on the Cleveland cylinders. Actually came up with a jig of sorts to stabilize the gauge. It ain’t pretty but it works.

I was moving along fairly well until i realized, I was measuring the wrong direction. I was going side to side and not front to back but then realized it depended on where I was standing and then my head exploded.

Good news is, before I called it quits the 4 that I remeasured were almost the same numbers so, there's no surprises.

Had planned on finishing the measure today so we can decide on whether this motor will require a new rotating assembly or not. Part of me would like to, since it's at the right stage to do it but then reality sets in and the budget is angry at me for thinking. Thinking, always gets me in trouble, can't figure it out.

Anyhow, the measure didn't get finished because I decided to continue cleaning parts with the paint ordered. The sooner I get them finished, the better. The flash rust is building into a more complete rust so, sealing them up is the best answer.

The water broom someone mentioned in a post arrived and so, I think I'll try and get that started in the middle section of the car, where the crud seems to be worst. Definitely going to be the right weather the next couple days. Nothing but sunshine and lower humidity.

California 72 · Oct 10, 2024

Another day's delay on things ordered so no real work. The discussion on the vinegar dip reminded me I had the spindles hanging-on for dear life over the tank since I temporarily forgot about them. The reply reminded me so, around 1630, rushed out to the garage, street clothes and all, to pull them and get them in the neutralizer soak. Really a messy thing to be fumbling thru.

Part of the discussion with the pros and cons to vinegar over Molasses or Evaporust, other than cost was the damage to the actual metal from the vinegar. I've actually been lucky with shorter times in the soak and damage hasn't been a concern however, I've started to soak things in a sink with HD degreaser and baking soda. The tank is sure getting saturated with rusty gunk, every time I put my arm in to pull parts, rust is attracted to my arm like electroplating.

Right now, the stock 2V exhaust manifolds are soaking so I can run a test on the VHT process. I'd rather not screw up on the 4V's I just purchased.

Otherwise, the only other challenge I'm faced with is the strut rods. Was removing the nuts so I could prep them for paint when it arrives, and everything was going great until the nut bound up in the middle of the thread. Evidently, there was a point in time where it had loosed, maybe after a bushing change by the previous owner, and the threads were flattened. Now, there's a new effort in trying to determine if I just find a replacement for the one that's damaged, split the nut and rethread with a cutter die, or replace both with an upgrade to adjustable but as I'm searching for them, I'm seeing they will probably be cost prohibitive.

California 72 · Oct 13, 2024

The rattle can express made a few delivers between Thursday and today. So far, Eastwood frame coating, some greys from Seymour, more VHT Chassis, Engine and Flame proof paints and primers and one lone can of Duplicolor Engine ceramic paint arrive, with 5 on order from another source since Eastwood had it on backorder. Did pick up a jug of After-blast too.
While at the blue big box today, thought I get a can of Rustoleum Rust converter spray for a couple areas that a spray works better than the brush on I already have.
For the calipers, with the car going back to Ivy Glow or a variation of that, decided on the VHT copper.
So, in the suspension forums, we talked about a seized nut on a strut rod that now needs replacing. I'm actually going with a pair to keep it all uniform up there but unfortunately, the idea to use adjustable has been officially nixed.

After more cleaning, with various motor parts, the timing cover plate is very badly pitted at the water pump mounts so that getting replaced. After measuring the taper on cylinders, we may be leaning to scrapping the refresh and just go full out with new pistons at whatever we needed starting at where we are now, 0.030 over. That would also include new rod and rings. I just can't shake this sinking feeling that if I don't, the motor will be back out as fast as it went in. I really and truly want this to be a one and done.

Today was also working on the underbody and what a job that is. I can say the body, mine, didn't really appreciate spending so much time on a creeper, especially since today was just compressed air to blow off the loose stuff and also clean out the frame rails to prep for coating. This week, we'll attempt media blasting the underside. I'm a little concerned about the drive shaft and the differential given how heavy the rust flaking is but there have been worse that cleaned up nicely.

Did get a better look at things too, apologies for the lack of a pic but there are two large holes, about 2" + or - that are in the floor running perpendicular to the tunnel on each side without any plugs. Should there be plugs there? Also found one area on the driver's side at the spot of an access plug where a previous owner decided it needed to be modified by a floor jack or maybe a lift pad at a garage. Given there are more than a handful of issues caused by randomly misplaced jack pads, I wish people would use just a bit more caution or even understanding where and where not to put the jack! I guess it really could be worse. It's just one more concern of how things were treated before we owned the car. Realistically, no one will ever be able to escape that process unless it's a pony that stays in the family from order day to handing the keys to a son or daughter, decades later.

Catch ya'll later

California 72 · Oct 21, 2024

The pic above is about the extent of my efforts last week. Media blasted the area you see in a free-blast format. The plastic covering the car was used as a tent with me under to blast. Not sure if free blast is the correct term but I just let the "runoff" fall to the floor.

It did about as best as you would expect with the dust landing on everything outside the "tent". It was also rather easy to scoop up the stuff on the floor for re-use. There was about a 10% loss of product, based on the level in the bucket when it returned but I'm sure it was more because of the product containing material blasted off the car included on the floor as well. I'm going to try using a couple rubber mats on the ground if I get back to things this week.

Also need to rethink the tent procedure and actually add an additional curtain around the perimeter wall, maybe suspended from the ceiling and in front of the shelving.

The pics below demonstrate where I finally had it with the cramped corner for working on things and decided to play 52 card pick-up with the contents of my garage. As I'm sorting thru things is the reason for the need to rethink the drapping of things. What a mess. Paint will require it so might as well get a heads start on the ideas.

Trying to keep things organized is a tough job when your car is in pieces and immovable. I finally reached the point my brain just melted down. I think it was when I walked into the engine stand for the 4th time on Friday. My legs and ankles found all 4 points with equal effort and maximum pain.

I'm still sorting thru things as of today, and since the sink can't be easily removed, it's almost a complete reorganization with only two side walls. Hopefully today I can wrap things up and get back to work.

1972 Convertible resto mod

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