1973 Mach build -My way

[MustangMyWay]

Hello everyone.

I posted before in my introductory thread that I wanted to put a Coyote engine in my '73 to make a street rod with modern tech horsepower.

I've hit a snag. The dimensions between my shock towers are 29" at the top and 30" at its widest point. The Coyote is just over 29". I'm not going through the added expense and time to cut out my shock towers, weld in a Mustang II front suspension etc so I looked to older push rod engines.

I found an interesting one, a 5.8 liter Windsor that I am still researching what it is.

Here is a picture of my car that I bought without a drive train:



Here is a picture of the engine that I bought, don't let the intake fool you:




I live in Metro-Detroit.

I bought a mystery engine recently and I have been researching exactly what kind of engine it is. I found one that was advertised as a 351 maybe a Lightning engine. After some investigation I decided that it wasn't likely a Lightning but bought it anyway. More research revealed that it might be one of the rarest engine Ford produced -the 5.8 Cobra R.

The scant background that I have:

I bought it from a man who became recent friends with a widow who's husband worked for Rousch. She asked for help cleaning out the garage. He put the intake and water pump on the long block then painted it blue for sales presentation.

The supporting material:

F4TE 6015-AA-13 block cast date 4H8 (Aug 8, 1994)

RF-3TE 9K461 EA lower intake (GT40, Lightning, Cobra R)

Rousch did the exhaust for the 95 R

94-95 Cobra valve covers (were black)

Red motorcraft cobra wires dated 1994

flat tappets

block was light blue before he bombed it

GT-40 heads with Crane roller cams

unchanged 3.5" stroke

Conflicting material:

Block was cast six months before the R's were manufactured on Feb. 19, 1995 which seems long to me.

He said he measured about .3 lift on the push rod when Cobra R's had .47x unless they mean valve lift after the 1.7:1 roller rockers.

No accessories were bolted on but some junk brackets came with that were van/truck style not Cobra style.

One of my friends thinks it might not be a rebuild but an original survivor. inside the crank case there is zero sludge or varnish so it is brand new or newly rebuilt.

There is a good chance that the man was making his own Cobra R clone.

I don't have cam or piston specifics. I'd rather not take the heads off to find out. I can almost get a number off the inside of the piston skirt to research.

I would love to find a 5.8 upper even though the after market ones are reported to be superior. I need to track down Cobra brackets and accessories. I figured that I would keep my thermactor since it seems all there except the pump is seized. I'll also have to change the oil pan and pick up tube to a front sump version.

Here is the link to my Photobucket account:

http://s419.photobucket.com/user/TheWeltman/library/mystery%20engine ( Two of these pictures are of an actual 95 Cobra R owned by a friend. The two uninstalled pistons are not a part of this engine)

I'll let the pictures say the rest. Here is another from my Photobucket page:



My questions:

Is casting date plausible?

Are the came specs (.47x) measured at the cam or are they measured at the valve(after the 1.7:1 ratio roller rockers?

What other information is there that could help in verification?

Guy.

 

[mach71351c]

Sounds like a great engine for your project.

 

[Mikes73]

Sounds like that will be a cool car when finished, I would do that torque monster of an engine a favor and ditch the fram oil filter for a motorcraft unit.

 

[Totalled]

That's an old fram.. Pre "Sure grip" days.. probably from the 90's.

 

[73MustangCoupe]

The .47 is probably valve lift. As an example, the Edelbrock cam I put in my 408W on the intake has a lift of 0.358" at the cam and valve lift of 0.573" with standard 1.6 rockers. There are other cams with numbers similar to what you were finding, .3 and .47, probably being cam and valve lift, respectively.

Its interesting that it's a flat tappet cam, as all 5.8L blocks from 94 on were roller blocks. They can fit run flat tappet cams, but I don't understand why one would want to.

As far as it being original, are those marks on the piston rods? They could signal that it's been rebuilt. Also, are there other witness marks on the mains? What do the bearings look like? Has this motor ever run? Are the bearings brand new, or do they show a little wear on them.

The motor is not in the car, so you probably should pull the intake and valve covers and get a good look at the top end. The with a solid lifter in place, add a pushrod and a dial indicator, you can measure the cam lift for both intake and exhause. Since you've got it that far, pull one of cylinder heads and that will let you measure the bore and find out if it's standard or been bored.

Buying a motor, newly rebuilt or pulling at a junk yard is always a gamble, but it looks like you have a really good one. Now you just have to confirm what you have and verify it's assembled correctly.

 

[MustangMyWay]

I ordered my Marty report (deluxe $40 + door tag $30). They contacted me asking for my weights as they are not on the report but needed for the Door tag (I'm replacing my doors). I compared my numbers and the numbers of a car on eBay and noticed a constant curiosity. Both cars front and rear weights add up to 23 pounds more than the GVWR( mine- GVWR: 4407, Front: 2307, Rear: 2125; eBay sample- GVWR:4380, Front:2287, Rear: 2116).

What is the constant inconsistency?

 

[MustangMyWay]

I asked Marti this same question about the weights:

"On a similar note, why is the GVWR 23 pounds less that the sum of the front

and rear? I saw another door tag and although the number were different,

they were still off by 23."

The response:

"Mr. Drum,

Those weights were estimated weights based on design studies. They did not

actually weigh every vehicle. The differences would be due to rounding

errors."

This doesn't explain why the weights are both 23 pounds different. Are they all off by 23 or is it a coincidence?

 

[gears]

I'd buy a gasket kit and go through that motor before trying to install and run it. You'd be able to check the lifter valley for the threaded bosses for the roller cam (which that motor should have had IIRC) spider lifter bar retainer.

Better to do it now than yank it and go through it later.

 

[MustangMyWay]

I hear you man. I think that I will be getting a professional to go through it for me as I am not sure what I am looking for apart from the torque specifications that I could look up.

I still haven't gotten to pulling a head and looking up some numbers. I am putting a King Cobra engine in my wife's 77 Cobra to get her on the road first.

I did score a list of 1995 Cobra R specific parts list with diagrams and numbers with witch to reference, so when I get to it I'll have the information that I need.

I still want to find what Cobra R owners have for casting dates on their blocks. I suppose that none of them actually lay eyes on them though. The location is hard to get to.

 

[MustangMyWay]

It's been about eight months were I didn't have much to report. I did an engine transplant on my wife's Mustang and renovated a Vietnam gun truck for paintball, my other passion.

I did get some things done though.

My engine research led me to Tyler Wolf, the Curator for Rousch. He helped me get a better idea on the potential origins of my engine but nothing hard, largely because Ford doesn't put serial numbers on their engines to identify exactly. I'm told that Ford sent seven engines to Rousch for the 1995 R program. They all came with Cobra 5.0 upper intake manifolds on them which is what I have (despite these being 5.8's). All information resulting form the testing was to be destroyed and the seven engines were supposedly returned to Ford. I know a V.P. at Ford and he admits that many things get lost in such occurrences when I mentioned this to him. To get any further i'm going to have to get the name of the deceased who worked at Rousch.

I have blasted the underside and engine compartment by using a local company that will show up at your house and blast it with some what they call "dustless" liquid envorinmentally safe media. I've been spending two weeks getting the "sand" out of all of the cracks and my driveway and following up with POR 15.

During this process and researching improving the suspension, I have decided to go with a whole new Mustang II front rack and suspension from R&C motorsports.

http://rcmotorsportsinc.com/rc-107-adjustable-ride-height-coilover-conversion-package/

You seem to get the biggest bang for the buck and I'll be getting the Willwood brake upgrage. One of the members here has put one in but I haven't received a response from him. I should be ordering this tomorrow.

 

[sdstang]

Very cool,

 

[rottenralph]

Looks like a good project. Engine is pretty, hope it is a beast.

 

[Kit Sullivan]

Any Windsor-block is an easy-peasy fit in a 71-73 'stang...plenty-o-room!

If you didn't pay too much for that motor it may br a good choice. But any garden-variety 351 Windsor can be built to make 400+ easy, reliable and durable horsepower for a fairly modest budget.

The Coyote install would be a nightmare...the entire front suspension would need changing, shock towers removed and then a computer to run it would have to be sourced. I think there are stand-alone computers avsilable for that, but I might be wrong. ( I was once back in 1979).

Very expensive proposition. Unless you really want that "Wow!" factor when you pop that hood, any Windsor, Cleveland or Lima- block would be a much more economical choice with no appreciable loss in performace potential.

 

[MustangMyWay]

It has been a while since I have shown any progress but there has been some.

The Coyote install would be a nightmare...the entire front suspension would need changing, shock towers removed and then a computer to run it would have to be sourced.

I originally did not want to cut up the front suspension but I researched performance front suspension upgrades and the best bang for the buck seems to be Rod and Custom Motorsports' Mustang II front end kit that includes: 11" Wilwood brakes, QA1 adjustable coil over shocks, and a power steering rack.



I had the underside and engine compartment blasted late summer:






Mike, another member here, already installed one of these kits and he has been so kind as to give me some pointers.

This is my gutted front end:

 

[protouringstang73]

Very cool!

 

[mach71351c]

Nice job!

 

[Butch65]

Looking good!

Thanks for the sharing the contact info for the rack and pinion set up. We have that on the Phase 2 project list....

 

[MustangMyWay]

I haven't posted recently but progress is being made.

Here it is assembled:

The bay with the rack:

 

[MustangMyWay]

I was surprised and proud how the sheet metal under the rear seat and above the torque box turned out. As you may know, these are not reproduced. I tried to fit one from a '68 but it differs too much. I made a poster board template then fabricated with a brake and hammer.