351C IDLE SPEED PROBLEM, FMX CLUNK?

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"FMX's have a problem with the pressure valve sticking in the pump. It's due from lack of fluid changes. If all else is ok, you can drive it that way but it will need a rebuild soon."

The pressure regulator valve train in the FMX is located in the valve body. The best way to check for any malfunction in the pressure regulating system, is to perform a Control Pressure Check. Guessing about transmission problems won't help, here, or anywhere else. Good diagnostics coupled with logical testing will get you to the root of the problem.
 
Just heard the video, the clunk does sound loud. I would put the car up on jack stands, go under the car and listen to where the sound comes from.
 
It sounds like you may have your idle speed set too low. Try setting your idle speed at 625-650 rpm with the transmission in DRIVE and the AC turned off. Also, check you ignition timing and set it at 14°-16° BTDC with the vacuum hose(s) removed from the vacuum advance and plugged.

The clunk could be caused by broken motor mounts or transmission mount.
All my literature shows 351C at 6BTDC. Why did you say 14-16 ?
Thanks
 
Just signed in and saw last replies. Thnx all.
I've had my '67 for 42 yrs. Many other stangs and Fords in our family over the years.
Never heard a transmission engage like this one.
When I got my 72, I later found out it had sat outside for over 10 years.
I did a fluid change on the tranny, but I do suspect a problem.
I have a lift, so I'll get under the car and have my son help me check out the clunk from the bottom side.

The idle speed is still a bit of an issue. Again, i've not had any of my carbureted cars act like this.
The choke is seems to be set properly. Closed when cold overnite. As the car warms up, it opens up completely.
However, when it is cold, it idles at about 600. But when it's fully warm, and the temp gauge goes up to normal, (thermostat opens)
it idles at about 1000. Fast idle is not engaged.
Wasn't sure about all the previous comments about intake vacuum leak and how this manifests itself in idle RPM?



 
I wonder if you may have bad motor and/or transmission mounts; they may also result in this kind of noise.
 
Just signed in and saw last replies. Thnx all.
I've had my '67 for 42 yrs. Many other stangs and Fords in our family over the years.
Never heard a transmission engage like this one.
When I got my 72, I later found out it had sat outside for over 10 years.
I did a fluid change on the tranny, but I do suspect a problem.
I have a lift, so I'll get under the car and have my son help me check out the clunk from the bottom side.

The idle speed is still a bit of an issue. Again, i've not had any of my carbureted cars act like this.
The choke is seems to be set properly. Closed when cold overnite. As the car warms up, it opens up completely.
However, when it is cold, it idles at about 600. But when it's fully warm, and the temp gauge goes up to normal, (thermostat opens)
it idles at about 1000. Fast idle is not engaged.
Wasn't sure about all the previous comments about intake vacuum leak and how this manifests itself in idle RPM?
What part of California are you located? I ask this because Lynda and I are planning a visit to SoCal to see family and friends. If you are anywhere near where we will be I can bring some acoustical waveform equipment and see if we can track down the precise source of this klunking if it has not been found and corrected by the time we are in SoCal. I am planning to bring my equipment anyway, to do some work on a friend's 1971 Mach 1 in Woodland Hills.

Following are the general areas we plan to visit while in SoCal:
Woodland Hills (far west end of LA County)
Monrovia
San Bernardino
Palm Springs
Menifee
Maybe Victorville & Apple Valley

We plan to be in SoCal from 11/27/2023 - 12/11/2023. If you are located way outside of the above areas, and the klunking has not been resolved, I may be able to help with some of the acoustical diagnostic approaches I have been working on (but have not yet published). It does require some equipment, but I would be willing to work with you on providing the equipment you need on a loaner basis, unless you are able and willing to invest in the equipment I am using. Details later, if of interest to you.

You can email me at [email protected] if this is of interest to you.
 
All my literature shows 351C at 6BTDC. Why did you say 14-16 ?
Thanks
Just tried-and-true old school tuning on the 351C. The Boss 351s called for 16° and many tuners find that works well for slightly modified 351Cs, also. Setting your advance to 14°-16° will allow you to back off the Holley's idle set screw to where the butterflies close off the transfer slots and allow you to better tune the idle mixture. This should give you decent vacuum (depending on your cam's profile), better idle quality, and maybe a better vacuum signal to your transmission's vacuum modulator.
 
What part of California are you located? I ask this because Lynda and I are planning a visit to SoCal to see family and friends. If you are anywhere near where we will be I can bring some acoustical waveform equipment and see if we can track down the precise source of this klunking if it has not been found and corrected by the time we are in SoCal. I am planning to bring my equipment anyway, to do some work on a friend's 1971 Mach 1 in Woodland Hills.

Following are the general areas we plan to visit while in SoCal:
Woodland Hills (far west end of LA County)
Monrovia
San Bernardino
Palm Springs
Menifee
Maybe Victorville & Apple Valley

We plan to be in SoCal from 11/27/2023 - 12/11/2023. If you are located way outside of the above areas, and the klunking has not been resolved, I may be able to help with some of the acoustical diagnostic approaches I have been working on (but have not yet published). It does require some equipment, but I would be willing to work with you on providing the equipment you need on a loaner basis, unless you are able and willing to invest in the equipment I am using. Details later, if of interest to you.

You can email me at [email protected] if this is of interest to you.
Wow...that's a very nice offer!
However I am up in the east bay area.
I went to Porsche Rennsport 7 at Laguna Seca so I've kinda gotten away from the Mach for a bit...
I am about to research the "fast idle" settings. I'm not sure how this is supposed to work on this carb. Unfamiliar with ever
playing with the fast idle cam.
I'm wondering if: I'm supposed to have the fast idle engaged as the car warms up, then as the car warms, the heat activated choke then releases that "fast idle". This would explain my idle issue.
Thank you again..
 
Just tried-and-true old school tuning on the 351C. The Boss 351s called for 16° and many tuners find that works well for slightly modified 351Cs, also. Setting your advance to 14°-16° will allow you to back off the Holley's idle set screw to where the butterflies close off the transfer slots and allow you to better tune the idle mixture. This should give you decent vacuum (depending on your cam's profile), better idle quality, and maybe a better vacuum signal to your transmission's vacuum modulator.
Thanks.
I'll keep this in mind as I get back into this issue I'm trying to solve.
I need to research the "fast idle" settings on the carb, something I am unfamiliar with. This could explain my RPM difference between the engine being cold or warmed up..
Thanks much
 
Hi everyone,
This question is about idle speed...and tranny clunk.
I rebuilt the Holley 4 barrel 8 years ago. It has always acted like this, so not a new issue.
There is a major difference, 300-400 rpm, between idle in park and idle in gear.
When the engine is cool, idling at 600, putting it into gear will drop the idle to 200 and stall the engine.
So, i've always had the idle up to about 1,000 so when in gear, its about 600. This way it doesn't stall at stoplights.
When hot, it's racing along at 1,100.

Now i've always noticed that at this high RPM, when you shift out of Park, there is a very pronounced, almost violent, CLUNK in the Tranny as it engages Reverse, or again as you go to Drive.
It jerks the car so bad going into gear that the hood has closed itself when it was up.
When researching this "idle" issue today I ran across a thread from this website. A guy said his car did this and that the problem was the transmission.
He said the "clutch plates stuck or bind together" causing the idle speed difference.

This has me thinking in a different direction than a carburetor issue.
This car sat outside for over 10 years before I acquired it in 2015. Been driving it limited last 3 years.

Any thoughts? Do I have a transmission problem possibly?

If have a carbureted 302 with a C4 and a carbureted 460 with a C6. Neither act like this.

Thanks for any thoughts...
Your idle issue sounds like your PCV has failed open. Have you replaced it already? Also just make sure your vacuum to the tranny is at full pressure and not split off with anything else.
 
There are a few other things that will allow a powertrain to have a louder than usual "clunk" when going into gear. The high idle speed in Neutral/Park is going to contribute to the problem. There should be a drop in RPM when placing an idling engine into a forward or reverse gear. A 400 RPM drop sounds a little high to me. I am thinuing you may be running at too lean an idle air/fuel mixture. That may be caused by an intake manifold vacuum leak. There are a few different ways to test for a vacuum leak. One of those ways is to use a smoke test, which will help show exactly where any intake leaks are occurring. The one video I like is at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmV_HjeiuCc

If you find any intake manifold leaks, correct them before trying to adjust the idle speed and idle air fuel mixture settings. I have some videos I posted showing how to adjust the carburetor idle speed, and the fast idle speed when the choke is (partially) on. It does not sound like your idle speed has an issue beyond it being set to a fairly high speed in Neutral to help prevent stalling the engine when it is put into gear. But, after checking for and correcting any intake manifold problems getting the carb set up correctly is important. The carb I am showing in my videos listed below is a stock Autolite 2100 2v unit. Your carb will be set up in a different manner, but the concepts are the same. Set the high speed idle first, then the running idle (with the TPS if so equipped), then the base idle (with the TPS off if so equipped), and idle mixture screws. I also suggest you set the base ignition timing before dealing with the carb idle settings. I cover that in one or more of the videos in the links below.

https://youtu.be/mwLwwUtI1cE


The link below includes a rebuild of the carb before the adjustment. kip forward in the video to get to the adjustment section.

https://youtu.be/U-ETjhRqUwQ


After the carb is adjusted,, if you are still running at high RPM in Neutral the clunking will likely remain an issue. Here are some other areas you can check...

It was suggested above to check the engine mounts. That is not unreasonable, but I do not see engine mounts cause a problem util there is some power applied to the engine and the engine ends of rocking out of its settled position, at which point it will make a significant sound. But, if the rubber insulation of an engine mounts has been eroded away, it is possible any engine noise will be transmitted with a metal to metal contact. In that eventuality I would concur an engine mount that is failed could make a clunking sound more pronounced.

There is also a transmission tailshaft mount that could possibly contribute to a slunking sound. But, like the engine mounts, usually I see those causing problems on a heavy load, not at idle speeds. But, as with the engine mounts that is no reason to overlook it as a (partial) cause of a pronounced klunk.

If either U-Joint is seriously worn putting the tranny into to gear csn certainly cause a loud clunking ound. It is easy to check a U-Joint for excess wear to the point where a loud clunking sound is heard. If you do not know what to look for there are a lot of videos in YouTube on the subject. Just search in YouTube on, "check for bad u-joint" and a lot of videos pop up. I have not read or watched all of the videos, but I have come across many that are reasonable. For me, rather than tearing things apart to inspect the U-Joint, I would prefer to forst trying to rotate the driveshaft in different rotational directions when the wheels are on the ground to see if you get any excess movement with either U-Joint. If you see excess movement, or hear any noise from the U-Joint(s) it is time to replace the offending part. If you have a new U-Joint being installed, be sure to pack it with fresh grease so it is properly lubricated. If you are going to use the existing U-Joints I suggest lubricating them with fresh grease also to both provide proper lubrication, and to help soften any sound they may be contributing to the clunk you re hearing.

While trying to rotate the driveshaft back nd forth you my feel or hear domr clunking coming from the driveshaft front you where is slides onto the transmission output shaft. It is very unlinkly the toke and output shaft splines have worn to the point where you hear a clunk from there or see/feel/hear the impact of highly worn splines. But, you can help reduce or minimize any clunking when going into gear by unbolting the rear U-Joint from the rear axle pinion shaft, then sliding the front yoke out of the transmission, Then pack some wheel bearing great into the yoke and output shaft so when you reinstall the yoke the grease is spread out between the roke and output shaft, You may need to indsert and remove the yoke a few times to mke certin the grease is applied along the length of the yoke, and between all sliding spline points. When reassembling the driveshaft make certain the rear U-Joint retaining U-Bolts are properly tightened. There is no need to over-tighten the U-Bolt nuts.

Yet another area a clunk could be coming from is the rear axle pinion gear when it is slammed against the ring gear when going into gear. If the rear differential has enough wear to allow a clunking sound, you will likely have other issues with the rear axle gear set. Those rear axle gear sets are very durable, and do not wear much as long as there is adequate lubrication (using the correct rear axle lubricant) in the rear differential system. So, I really dount you will have excessive play when manually rotating the pinion input in both directions back and forth. If you are getting excessive movement and/or sounds from the rear axle gears you will need to rebuild or replace the differential gear set. I sincerely doubt that will be the case, but it is just another stome to be overturned and examined.

I know this was a long read. But I am hopeful it is helpful. If the clunk continues, or is corrected, please post the information so all of us find out how you ended up dealing with it. I am going to be doing some acoustical waveform testing on a series of driveshafts and U-Joints over the next few weeks. If I come scross any other ways to test U-Joints for excess noise/wear I will be posting it in this forum. That may happen a while after the testing processes are being worked out, which may extend until Car Season 2024 if the testing and recordings of various U-Joints is not done before Winter Hibernation 2023 - 2024 up here in Snow Country (outside Rochester, NY.
If one engine mount is more worn than the other you could get a variation in "clunks" between putting in drive or reverse. Sounds like a solid lead to me but doesn't really explain the loss of rpm which is likely just the PCV valve. So my money is on dual issues; worn motor mount and sticking PCV. You could even try to wash the PCV in some solvent or gasoline as it is likely to be plugged with dirty oil, just to test it out. If your stalling issue improves at normal idle I would just break down and spend the $12 on a new PCV, these are a wear part that lots of us forget about. Don't forget to clean the filter coming off of the other valve cover if you want to improve flow through the crankcase ventilation system. If you want to watch a video I found useful here you go.
 
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