Cleveland contemplation....

[L.C.Gray]

Ok topic of discussion is to Cleve or not to Cleve...

Car: '73 Grande, 302, C4 8" rear axle. It is an original condition one owner garage kept car in good condition, 147k miles

My end goal is to have a good car to drive to shows and cruise nights. My overall plan to get there is:

Clean up what's there.

Wheel tires (done)

Warm over the engine with aftermarket heads, cam, intake, ignition, exhaust system

Rebuild transmission

4 wheel disc brakes

Rebuild suspension/steering

Custom Paint

Restored Interior

I have made my shopping list for all things under the hood, but so far only have bought some headers. I have now had a friend toss me the option on a 351C4V and a C6 that's complete from fan to tailshaft, air cleaner to drain plug. The Cleve has been sitting in the back of his Pop's shop for years, his Pop's gone, and he doesn't know anything about it. I can buy the Cleveland package cheaper than an inexpensive set of aluminium W heads. I figure buying it and freshening it up and swapping just the cam won't be any more expensive than modding the whole top end of the tired 302. The Cleve must have been worth something to him because it was kept on a stand inside rather than out in the elements. It is most likely a runner as is, but I can't bank on that, I have to assume it's seen better days and will need a rework.

The Grande will never be a high value car, but I almost hate to alter it, but I want more zip than the measly 143 hp it began life with, and then there's that Cleveland mystique that makes ford guys get misty eyed and salivate.

This is prolly the only car I'll build in my life time and I'm finally at a place I can afford to put a little money into a play car to drive back in time, but I'm not sure what to do...

Opinions on this and any challenges I'll face with swapping the C4 for the C6.?

 

[Mister 4x4]

C4 and C6 will bolt right up to either the Cleveland or the 302 - just need to change out the tranny mount crossmember for the C6 - shifter and pretty much everything else should be the same.

Since you're not wanting a faithful restoration, I say swap-in the 351C/C6 and take your time (re)building the 302. Since you're going to update the car anyway, might as well have some fun with it.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

I agree.

 

[Mustangfeverrr]

Absolutely! What's not to love about a Cleveland? You'll love the power difference, and when the whole assembly will practically bolt itself into your car, it's a no-brainer!

 

[Hemikiller]

Best engine swap ever. Get some info on the C and we can help you do a low-buck build that will still burn 'em to the belts...

 

[c9zx]

Get the Cleveland and the C6 and don't look back. Chuck

 

[bkdunha]

Do it the way you want. The upgrade to a Cleveland is never a bad thing. Just depends on how much more money would be involved getting it going over the running 302. There is definitly the expertise here to guide you down either path. Have fun.

 

[L.C.Gray]

I went ahead and took the deal on the Cleveland. After doing so the thought of motor mounts and a recollection of discussion on here about new 73 mounts being hard to come by sprang into my head. My mounts were replaced 1,500 miles ago and I was immediately concerned I might not be able to locate mounts to put the Cleveland in with. After looking through part numbers it appears the Windsor and Cleveland use the same motor mount so I should be able to use my existing motor mounts over again.

That shifts my main concern now to transmission cooler lines and linkages. Since the Cleveland already has a C6 attached, hopefully a workable kickdown linkage is there as well. I have cooler lines for both C4 and C6, but since I don't know the Cleveland and C6's vehicle of origin, I don't know if the C6's will work in the Mustang.

How hard is to find a C6 rear crossmember?

 

[MeanMachine]

Not as much of a Cleveland fan as I used to be. They are great engines with great potential and look like a bigblock, but their short production run (Modifieds and 400s not included) coupled with the increased cost in price vs the 302W lessened my desire to build one. The fact that I could build my 302 to my expectations and replace parts (if needed) cheaper and easier was a plus. Also, the aftermarket support for the Windsor is outstanding. Ultimately, I decided to build my numbers matching 302 which lessened a few headaches, kept the weight lighter and runs like a scolded dog.

Those Clevelands do look good in our engine bays though!

 

[will e]

Congratulations! Cooler lines shouldn't be much of a problem. If what you have doesn't work, you can order aftermarket or even bend some up.

Kickdown is probably pretty standard but their may be differences to allow for different firewalls. You will just have to see if it works. The transmission will operate without it in place (I have not had one for years) so it won't keep you from driving it if you have to find or make one.

What you will want to verify is the shifter linkage on the c6. This did vary depending on the model of car and if it had a floor or console shifter. The linkage on my swapped in c6 was too short. No big deal, I just had to modify it. If you are going to rebuild the transmission it might be worth the time to make sure you have the right one since you have to tear deep into the transmission to swap them out.

If you have some extra money for the build, consider tossing a gearvendors on the tailshaft. Overdrive is nice and you can go with higher rear end gears.

 

[L.C.Gray]

I'd like to have an OD, but I've had a GV O/U before and wasn't too enamored with it. I'd be hard pressed to spend that kind of money again after my prior experience with one. I've discussed doing the AOD swap with two different local transmission guys and both of them are pretty discouraging of it.

 

[L.C.Gray]

In looking around for a C6 cross member, I see different years stated for what look like identical parts. I see some listed as '69-'70, some as '71-'73 and some as '69 - '73. Did Mustangs use the same cross member for a C6 in a Mustang from '69 through '73 or are there 2 different ones?

 

[DK73]

Well I would always take the Cleveland engine ... But yes it's more costly building them. But they are strong and they do sounds so gooooddddd... My engine is a blast too drive!! [emoji41][emoji12][emoji8] Regards Lars

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Regards DK73