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I think it's been an interesting thread. Camshafts are one of the least understood components of an engine, and rightfully so. Cams and the design of them is very complex and minor changes to any one of the design elements can result in big changes in performance. Each design element has to be compatible with all of the others.

 
I have used online horsepower simulators to get an idea of my power level for entertainment purposes only and mused at the numbers provided. I have a comp cam in my car and love everything about it, though a tad soft down low this things screams when you get into it. Next time I might even go bigger.

 
Those numbers seem way high to me. I think your engine guy is pretty close.

Chuck
Totally agree and even then the builders numbers maybe a little off too. 2V with 4V valves aren't a great combination to start (in fact people with those heads on my builds I tell them to sell them and get standard heads) let alone the other inherent problems with the 2V CC heads with valve shrouding and their ports are are different around the pushrod area and go very turbulent around the .450-.500" lift mark and even the best head porters with many years of experience on these heads still can't get them totally right and still charge 1000's of dollars just in port work. In saying that though the 2V can still make great power, 600+ HP running 9 sec quarters in 3500lb cars is still pretty stout for the lowly heads. I've done heaps of 2V Clevelands over the years, from stock to 10 second street cars, to know what's achievable with them and as has been said, a free calculator will only tell "maybe" peak results, maybe being that everything is optimal for your combination. Also remember people will tell customers numbers to sell products, so take whatever they say with a grain of salt. I've not long spent hundreds of dollars on the latest engine software and if these free calculators were accurate (I don't know what other info they tell as I've never used them) then nobody would be buying these programs.

Anyway good luck with the build and just enjoy it as it's going to be better than a stock Cleveland anyway. It may even be one of those builds that defy everything and goes like a cut snake. Good luck with it all and let us know how it all goes.

Cheers Jason
Thanks. When I saw those number I thought they were crazy and by no means was I hoping or thinking I would get to numbers like that. Hence why I asked. I will be happy with a decent increase over stock and no more lifter noise. :)
Don't get to wrapped up in numbers, as that's what they are, numbers. Too many people these days are too caught up in numbers instead of the overall use of the car and how it's mainly going to be used. As I said, just put it together and enjoy the car, just make sure the assembly is done correctly, i.e. Bearing clearances, ring gaps, degreeing camshaft, rocker geometry, etc. The number one thing is it can never be too clean, in fact I've seen more engines suffer premature failure because of uncleanliness in the assembly process. It could even surprise everyone and go better than people thought. I've had engines like that and one in particular shouldn't have gone like it did, but for whatever reason it did and couldn't explain why. Everybody has different opinions on ways engines should be built, the old saying goes, ask 10 different engine builders how your engine should be and you'll get 10 different answers. Don't worry about what everyone else says, it's your car, put it together and enjoy and let us know how it goes.

Cheers Jason

 
I think it's been an interesting thread. Camshafts are one of the least understood components of an engine, and rightfully so. Cams and the design of them is very complex and minor changes to any one of the design elements can result in big changes in performance. Each design element has to be compatible with all of the others.
Exactly correct, there's so much misinformation out there about camshaft selection and the old myth of bigger is better only confuses the situation more. Also those that do not understand certain engines, like the Cleveland, lead people up the garden path selling them a cam suitable for a completely different engine as it works great in the engines they know. As has been said, parts/engines are sold on peak numbers not on overall drivability. I have seen it over the years, a guy will by an engine on numbers only and end up disappointed on how it drives on the street and basically end up rebuilding the engine twice to get what they really wanted in the first place. Another big misconception in engine development is flow numbers in cylinder heads, but that's getting way off subject.

Cheers Jason

 
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Yawn. A big ol' "Duh" moment here, because you totally took my comment out of the simplest context there could be, "Performance parts are not sold by how much power you'll be getting in 'everyday, mediocre' conditions - they are sold by how much potential power they can help produce." Go look at any performance part out there, and I guarantee you'll see that every vendor/manufacturer/seller out there will be pushing peak numbers on every item they have. So therefore sir, it is in fact not "incorrect," as you say.
If you're going to single out a specific comment, at least address that comment specifically.

....maybe even call CompCams themselves for more detailed information on their products if you're interested.
I did not take your comment out of context regarding vendors promoting peak numbers . I build and sell engines AND parts like cams, therefore I too am a "vendor" and I do not NOT promote peak numbers . Chris Straub from Straub Technologies is one of the premier cam designers in the world and he doesn't promote peak numbers either and neither does Mark from Bullet Cams and so on.

I have also been a comp cams dealer for around 25 years and I can guarantee you that a lot of the time they recommend a cam that is not the best choice for a particular app and many of the tech guys know very little about their product and simply read what it says in the cams description.

 
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Geez guys. I didn't want to start something here. Was a simple question. While I did order my cam from Comp it is not an off the shelf cam, it was a custom grind based on a conference call with the guy setting up my heads (very knowledgeable Cleveland guy - his shop is painted ford blue and he has a sign stating he does not carry orange paint so don't ask) and comp cams based on my specific application (IE heads, accessories, gearing, and what I want out of the engine). I saw some references posted on the utility (which I had never head of it) so I thought I would check it out and according to the utility the off the shelf cams suggested were not far off when the three of us came up with as far as specs, just very different HP and Torque numbers.
I guess I'm the one with the problem - I just hate it when I share something that worked for me and someone basically craps all over it. Makes me feel invalidated on a level.

Barnett's, Don's, and Mike's advice is, as always, "high-test grade" and definitely should be considered when investigating options for building engines.

 
I did not take your comment out of context regarding vendors promoting peak numbers . I build and sell engines AND parts like cams, therefore I too am a "vendor" and I do not NOT promote peak numbers . Chris Straub from Straub Technologies is one of the premier cam designers in the world and he doesn't promote peak numbers either and neither does Mark from Bullet Cams and so on.

I have also been a comp cams dealer for around 25 years and I can guarantee you that a lot of the time they recommend a cam that is not the best choice for a particular app and many of the tech guys know very little about their product and simply read what it says in the cams description.
:bravo: :thankyouyellow:

 
Thanks Eric, I just looked at the specs of your engine build and from the looks of it I would say it is a strong runner. I am sure your combo would have no problem getting out of its own way. When I built mine I used aluminum parts on everything possible to get the weight down. My suggestion to 73pony would be use a cam with around 280 degrees duration with lift in the low to mid .500" range. This will provide good idle vacuum and make great mid to upper RPM power. Good luck with whatever you choose.

Oops, never mind. I just realized you are already running an aftermarket cam.

 
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I guess I'm the one with the problem - I just hate it when I share something that worked for me and someone basically craps all over it. Makes me feel invalidated on a level.
It shouldn't, you used all available tools and research, put a lot of thought into it, and came up with an engine build that you are obviously very happy with, and rightfully proud of.

There's not many people that happens with. The majority wind up with something that's just not suitable. I have known several people that were convinced they were building something incredible and instead burned a lot of money and wound up with something little better than stock, and sometimes maybe worse.

::goodjob::

 
I ask them several questions and often take them for a ride in a car if I have one around at the time and the majority of the time they say that they don't want an engine with that much power at which time i tell them that it has far less power than they were asking for .

Said no one EVER unless you are building mini vans for church carpools.

 
Said no one EVER unless you are building mini vans for church carpools.
Here is an engine I recently helped a friend of mine with for his church carpool vehicle . He had a "professional" race car engine builder build it and it ate the distributor gear and cam distributor drive gear and timing gear thrust plate and distributor gear pad on the new Dart block after only 500 miles, so I got a new Crane cam gear and after checking the mesh pattern, I saw that I had enough room to suspended the distributor gear above the pad so it no longer touched it and got a double torrington bearing Rollmaster timing set and checked the end play and got a Howards cam that I knew from many years of experience of building these church carpool engines would be a better match for his other components then adjusted the Webers and recurved the new distributor by ear that I got him and he said it not only revved farther than it previously did, it also had way more bottom and mid range power but I never could figure out why it was so noisy and idled so rough.
shrug.gif


Cuz it needs a tune up!

...
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Awesome. Love the carb set up. Are those Webers? I'd carpool to church in that any day.

lol, yup, 48 IDA's . No more excuses fer not gettin to Church on time!

 

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