Dyno Day! HP, bHP, rwHP? SAE Gross vs Net?

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4Vforever

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1973 Q code, C6 auto, 3.25 traction lock,
gold glow, ginger interior, A/C, pwr/steer/windows/disc brakes, etc
Glad to see you went with what you had (o/c 4V's) than listen to know it alls about changing them to c/c's. While the c/c heads are awesome for all out power and racing applications, their o/c counterparts are by no means crap heads.

... grout filled to bottom of welsh plugs

... intake port tongues added, exhaust port plates (these are the 2 greatest things you can do to 4V heads)

... It made around the 560 hp mark and torque was around 470 ft/lbs. all on pump fuel. This engine pushed an XA hardtop into the low 11's...
wow. 11s!!

i would love to hit 11s or even 12s. but i'm just hoping for low 13s in a couple weeks after some more tuning. fty spec was 15s back in 1972. but how much more do i need before i have to think about brakes, suspension, tires, transmission, u-joints, axle, etc? lol

what is "grout filled to bottom of welsh plugs"?

i had the MPG Port Plates on the intake and exhaust. but i couldn't get them to seal very well on the exhaust side. when i had the blow by problem last April, I suspected the problem were the intake tongues so I removed them both, but it turned out to be the Timing Chain Cover. the Sanderson headers have a raised flange, thus they are gasketsless and gaskets actually create a leak. they were installed with gaskets between the block and plate, but no gasket betw plate and header. Thus, i have to rethink how to install the Port Plates with or without gaskets on the block side IF i want to try them again. Wondering if I can be leak-free just using RTV ONLY on both sides of the port plates?
Well it's all part of the equation with the driveline upgrades and as such. But it was running a C4 built by Bob Grant Automatics in Brisbane (one of the best transmission builders in the world) convertor was done The Convertor Shop in Brisbane (again very highly reputable) that would've been around the 4000-4500+ stall speed. Tail shaft was built by Driveline Services in Brisbane a 3.5-4 inch diameter thick wall piece. The exhaust on this thing was like a work of art, done by Gonzo's. From memory they were 2 inch primaries into merge collectors, that ran into 3 inch twin pipes into the crossover into his own built mufflers into dual 3 inch tailpipes that had spirals running through the pipes. The rear end was the trusty old 9 inch with tru trac with (I think) 4.11's. As for brakes it just ran the standard Aussie 4 wheel disc brake set up I'm pretty sure. As Luke stated about grout filling the block with Hard Block to the bottom of the welsh/freeze plugs and we would also use 302 Boss screw in type plugs.

With your port plate dilemma we used a product called Silver Seal, (sorry I can't remember who makes it) and we would "glue" up each port plate to the exhaust gasket face and a bit under each plate in the port and clamp it to the head. When dried, if there was any excess in the port above the plate we'd just trim it off, heard of some guys welding them in, but we never had dramas using that product, as it was designed for extreme temperatures. We also used it on the intake ports and have also used liquid metal under the tongues and then screwed them in from the underside of port and used loctite on the grub screws that held them in place, so they obviously wouldn't come out and drop into the valley, so you wouldn't have an unhappy day.

With your engine I can no reason why you couldn't run in the 13's easily, possibly a high 12 (depending on your drivetrain) If you want to get into the 12's easily, give it a 100 shot of N2o, lol. If you think 11's was alright for back then, I worked for a guy back then that was running mid 9's in a full weight XY falcon with c/c 4V heads naturally aspirated, but on methanol. It was registered, but a street car it certainly was not. Let's just say, plenty of people had heard about this thing, and the rumours got out about it having lexan windows, fibreglass panels, big tubs, etc, etc. At the Winternationals 2002 well let's just say, plenty of people (especially southerners) were proved wrong after seeing the car and seeing that it was basically a factory built Falcon with a full cage and a monster Clevo, we just stood back and laughed at all the people looking over every inch of the car, then shaking their heads as they realised that it was as I said, a factory built Falcon with a full cage and monster Clevo. That is just one of many stories from over the years I was machining and building engines, that I let action speak louder than words. Nothing used to satisfy me more than some toss pot know all know F'all (usually with more dollars than sense) raving on about how their car was greatest thing ever built and how fast it was, and when one of our cars would kick it's ass, by, like a quarter of the track, and all the BS excuses would come out, like it wasn't running properly or this happened or that happened. So we'd say something like, get it running right and we'll go again. Funny thing was, not too many would give a definitive answer, and when you'd see them again, more excuses would keep coming up when you asked for that re-run,lol. Anyway all the best on your ventures with your car and I hope you get the times you're looking for.

 
Joined
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73 Blue Glo Mach 1
Glad to see you went with what you had (o/c 4V's) than listen to know it alls about changing them to c/c's. While the c/c heads are awesome for all out power and racing applications, their o/c counterparts are by no means crap heads.

... grout filled to bottom of welsh plugs

... intake port tongues added, exhaust port plates (these are the 2 greatest things you can do to 4V heads)

... It made around the 560 hp mark and torque was around 470 ft/lbs. all on pump fuel. This engine pushed an XA hardtop into the low 11's...
wow. 11s!!

i would love to hit 11s or even 12s. but i'm just hoping for low 13s in a couple weeks after some more tuning. fty spec was 15s back in 1972. but how much more do i need before i have to think about brakes, suspension, tires, transmission, u-joints, axle, etc? lol

what is "grout filled to bottom of welsh plugs"?

i had the MPG Port Plates on the intake and exhaust. but i couldn't get them to seal very well on the exhaust side. when i had the blow by problem last April, I suspected the problem were the intake tongues so I removed them both, but it turned out to be the Timing Chain Cover. the Sanderson headers have a raised flange, thus they are gasketsless and gaskets actually create a leak. they were installed with gaskets between the block and plate, but no gasket betw plate and header. Thus, i have to rethink how to install the Port Plates with or without gaskets on the block side IF i want to try them again. Wondering if I can be leak-free just using RTV ONLY on both sides of the port plates?
Well it's all part of the equation with the driveline upgrades and as such. But it was running a C4 built by Bob Grant Automatics in Brisbane (one of the best transmission builders in the world) convertor was done The Convertor Shop in Brisbane (again very highly reputable) that would've been around the 4000-4500+ stall speed. Tail shaft was built by Driveline Services in Brisbane a 3.5-4 inch diameter thick wall piece. The exhaust on this thing was like a work of art, done by Gonzo's. From memory they were 2 inch primaries into merge collectors, that ran into 3 inch twin pipes into the crossover into his own built mufflers into dual 3 inch tailpipes that had spirals running through the pipes. The rear end was the trusty old 9 inch with tru trac with (I think) 4.11's. As for brakes it just ran the standard Aussie 4 wheel disc brake set up I'm pretty sure. As Luke stated about grout filling the block with Hard Block to the bottom of the welsh/freeze plugs and we would also use 302 Boss screw in type plugs.

With your port plate dilemma we used a product called Silver Seal, (sorry I can't remember who makes it) and we would "glue" up each port plate to the exhaust gasket face and a bit under each plate in the port and clamp it to the head. When dried, if there was any excess in the port above the plate we'd just trim it off, heard of some guys welding them in, but we never had dramas using that product, as it was designed for extreme temperatures. We also used it on the intake ports and have also used liquid metal under the tongues and then screwed them in from the underside of port and used loctite on the grub screws that held them in place, so they obviously wouldn't come out and drop into the valley, so you wouldn't have an unhappy day.

With your engine I can no reason why you couldn't run in the 13's easily, possibly a high 12 (depending on your drivetrain) If you want to get into the 12's easily, give it a 100 shot of N2o, lol. If you think 11's was alright for back then, I worked for a guy back then that was running mid 9's in a full weight XY falcon with c/c 4V heads naturally aspirated, but on methanol. It was registered, but a street car it certainly was not. Let's just say, plenty of people had heard about this thing, and the rumours got out about it having lexan windows, fibreglass panels, big tubs, etc, etc. At the Winternationals 2002 well let's just say, plenty of people (especially southerners) were proved wrong after seeing the car and seeing that it was basically a factory built Falcon with a full cage and a monster Clevo, we just stood back and laughed at all the people looking over every inch of the car, then shaking their heads as they realised that it was as I said, a factory built Falcon with a full cage and monster Clevo. That is just one of many stories from over the years I was machining and building engines, that I let action speak louder than words. Nothing used to satisfy me more than some toss pot know all know F'all (usually with more dollars than sense) raving on about how their car was greatest thing ever built and how fast it was, and when one of our cars would kick it's ass, by, like a quarter of the track, and all the BS excuses would come out, like it wasn't running properly or this happened or that happened. So we'd say something like, get it running right and we'll go again. Funny thing was, not too many would give a definitive answer, and when you'd see them again, more excuses would keep coming up when you asked for that re-run,lol. Anyway all the best on your ventures with your car and I hope you get the times you're looking for.
Ha ha I remember that car I flew back from Perth for those winters. The amount of crap people where saying about that car. Super high dollar large displacement blocks, experimental heads from Yates or some such BS lexan,tubs hidden nos etc. Talked to some of my outlaw mates and they said go find it its just a ordinary falcon Lol. Upset a lot of lebo blokes with some of the really big displacement streeters from down vic way leading up to the winters if I remember right

 
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4Vforever

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
473
Reaction score
13
Location
Australia
My Car
1973 Q code, C6 auto, 3.25 traction lock,
gold glow, ginger interior, A/C, pwr/steer/windows/disc brakes, etc
Ha ha I remember that car I flew back from Perth for those winters. The amount of crap people where saying about that car. Super high dollar large displacement blocks, experimental heads from Yates or some such BS lexan,tubs hidden nos etc. Talked to some of my outlaw mates and they said go find it its just a ordinary falcon Lol. Upset a lot of lebo blokes with some of the really big displacement streeters from down vic way leading up to the winters if I remember right

Yeah Luke, if it's the yellow glow XY GT replica that would do the first 60+ ft with it's front wheels about 5 ft in the air, then that would be it. That thing was absolutely awesome and was making some amazing power. I really should go to the drags again one of these days (been over 8 years) or call him up and catch up with him again, as he really is a top guy that let's action speak louder than words.

 

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