cudak888: 1972 Q-code - cam failure pictures

[cudak888]

Something looks funky with the bent pushrod. I wonder how long it is straightened? Could they be 400 m pushrods?

351M/400 pushrods are 9.51" - 241.6mm.

That's definitely not 241mm of bent pushrod there.

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

I realized last night that I had not provided photos of the top of the head to show the Comp springs and dampers:

-Kurt

 

[Totalled]

In the case of the quench heads I had done up for my (now to be newly built) engine, the stock guides were cut for PC valve seals, and for the extra lift. Those are stock umbrella seals.. Maybe the spring coil bound, or maybe the retainer found the top of the valve guide.

In any case, you know the heads need to be rebuilt with new 1 piece valves, and the short block ought to at least get exploratory surgery if not freshened.

 

[cudak888]

In the case of the quench heads I had done up for my (now to be newly built) engine, the stock guides were cut for PC valve seals, and for the extra lift. Those are stock umbrella seals.. Maybe the spring coil bound, or maybe the retainer found the top of the valve guide.

In any case, you know the heads need to be rebuilt with new 1 piece valves, and the short block ought to at least get exploratory surgery if not freshened.

Given that the original Ford two-piece valves are in there, I can't be that sure that anything other than the springs were changed out. I am not familiar with the factory retainers enough to pass judgement upon inspection either. Anyone have a picture?

The 940-16 has a coil bind of 1.200; valve lift on the 32-221-3 cam is 0.494.

Factory Q-code cam lifts to 0.480. Need to check coil bind on the factory springs.

I know the issue with the shavings, as do I the two-piece valves (which really drives me up the wall, for I can't even put the LH head back in the engine with a simple spring change due to the opportunity to get rid of the troublesome valves)

Heck, the block might be toast from the mushroomed lifters, for that matter.

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

I tried the tapping trick on the LH intake valves today. They didn't seat themselves, and the valve on Cylinder #7 didn't seat right after tapping it either - even though it was sealing perfectly prior to tapping.

I decided to take them to the engine shop so they could have a look. We'll know more on Monday afternoon:

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

I spoke to the shop at lunch during the week. Didn't really get too much info (need to go by and speak with the machinist), but word says that both heads sealed when vacuum tested. That doesn't explain why the valves don't close properly in their guides when tapped.

Springs apparently match up to spec. Need to ask why the umbrella seats were pulling up.

Price is $125/ea to do each head with a 3 angle valve job. I don't want to go that route until I've secured a new set of valves to replace the originals.

Incidentally - seeing as this car is a bit of an experiment in doing an austerity build with an absolute junker, I'm publicizing a Google Docs Excel file with the build cost. Should be interesting.

 


EDIT: Here's the link to the spreadsheet:


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wQcL4P-jZNRy3YqSf7UIIxeIxK-L_TLfMxsWzFqSJeE/edit?usp=sharing




-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

On another note, I pushed the car out to spin it 180 today; in preparation for getting an engine hoist under it to remove the block.

The rear end started clunking and banging the moment I turned this thing on tarmac - sounded like something rubbing the tires, but nothing was. I have a suspicion that our genius hot rodders who owned this thing before didn't put the posi 4:11 rear end guts in correctly.

At any rate, I took the opportunity to snap a pair of fair-to-middling pictures of the hulk:

-Kurt

 

[Totalled]

Might have a locker, or at least a lockrite in it.. Unless it is hosed.

 

[Luke]

Could be a spool or a Detroit in it or its hosed as mentioned

 

[cudak888]

I'll find out when I do the rear framerail repair. Might as well pull the axle when I dump the leafs.

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

Finally had an opportunity to see the heads at the shop. Nothing wrong with the guides, heads, or valves; everything seems good.

The original 4-groove, two-piece valves look ridiculously nice after a cleaning too. Shame they're not the best things to put back in.

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

Postman brought some presents today. Valves and locks are from Alex's Parts (and apparently, the new locks require new retainers too - whoopie; more things to make the budget build anything but budget), and the camshaft is an NOS, unused Muskegon-badged CWC that I nailed on eBay for $40 shipped, mainly as the seller didn't know the specs.

Some quick, not-so-accurate checking seems to show a minimum of ~0.482 valve lift (digital caliper is dead, and I don't trust the micrometer that I found in Dad's toolbox), so it looks as if I got lucky and didn't buy myself a smogger 400 cam. No degree wheel today - its raining hard now.

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

Yep. 0.481-0.482 or thereabouts. I'll have to wait for the shop to give me proper numbers (particularly duration), but this isn't the cam for a Lincoln Continental Smog Car with a 400, that's for sure.

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

All the parts for the cylinder head job are in from Alex's Parts. Didn't realize his locks require a special retainer; they just came in today.

I took some comparison shots of the original 2-piece, 4-groove 4V valves with the single-groove Alex valves, locks, and retainers:

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

I came to the realization today that fixing this hunk of junk isn't worth it - but it had nothing to do with the horrible condition of the floorpans - which I completely expected.

That said, this is what happened today. I set out to gut the bottom half of the interior to gain access to the floorboards - and gut it I did.

This is what I found under the carpets before vacuuming the rust out:

"Flinstones! Meet the Flintstones..."

The areas just forward of the wheelwell aren't any better, and the driver's side is pretty shocking. Not that I have a problem with repairing any of this:

I also found out why the left quarter panel had rotted out under the quarter window - someone went nuts when they Ziebarted this thing and stuffed 2" of sealer in there - effectively blocking the rocker panel's drain hole for this area. Brilliant.

Thing is, the other side isn't like this, which should have been a big warning flag right there, but I didn't figure that out until an hour later (keep reading)...

All vacuumed up, and the extent of the floorpan rust becomes a bit more obvious. Again, nothing that isn't fixable - this isn't a sinkhole Corvette.

With those headers, this must have been a very effective floor heater up there in NY. Torque box has a hole in it, but only one spot - nothing that would require chopping half the car to fix:

All things considered, I expected this side to be worse with the rotted cowl. Again, hole in the torque box too:

Drain plug hole on the driver's side turned out to be rotted at all corners:

And that was it. Or so I thought. As I was kneeling to examine a small hole in the valance mounting area, I looked up through the taillight hole and saw this:

Dammit. The one quarter I thought was good is a FRICKIN' SKIN.

Granted, this is the only bit of craftsmanship that I've found on the car that is almost imperceptible from the outside: It is the ONLY thing of that's been fitted so well that it took me two months to find it.

Dare you to find the filler. They used the original quarter for the end, so there's no panel difference at the end cap area. Slick.

You can barely make out that the door sits a bit deeper than the quarter at the gap. Otherwise, you can hardly tell.

Here's the problem: I hate skins, and I hate lapped repairs. I'd probably be able to tolerate this in any other situation, but consider how many other panels I'd have to replace:

• LH full quarter
  
• Both doors (passenger's is especially rotted)
  
• Floorpans
  
• Trunk floor
  
• Rear floor area forward of wheelwells
  
• Cowl hat
  
• All aprons (they're presently patched up with aluminum riveted to the steel and Bondo'ed over.
  
• Patch the hood from BigBlue
  

Honestly, the only steel on the entire car that wouldn't get welded together are the front fenders, roof, and trunk (trunk still needs the spoiler holes closed up though).

All that, and I leave the RH quarter untouched? That would be stupid - but equally stupid would be to do all this work on this turd, when I can pick up something better to start with and be better off - both in cost and general headaches.

So she gets torn apart. Maybe I'll be able to break even on this bad deal and find something better to turn into Halicki's Flying Yellow Banana.

-Kurt

P.S.: This '72 - being very late production (July) has (correction: had - just threw them out) 1973-dated carpets in it:

 

[Ron Tanzi]

Thanks, I'll need it on this one.

It is unrelated to the Grabber Yellow F-code that I nearly purchased a few months back. This one is Medium Bright Yellow Gold with Ginger Deluxe interior. One of 382.

Dealer sprayed the hood with the tu-tone and cut it for NACA twist locks. Not original to the car. It's a one-owner job, but they've shoved 4:11's in the rear, a shift kit in the C6, and other things that will generally annoy me as I sort out the rest.

Condition is rough, but not horrific. Price was good, but not an outright steal.

Honestly, there is a devious part of me that wishes to put a standard hood on it (with fake hood pins), shove a '73 grill in the front, delete the stripes, blackout the taillight panel and endcaps, and put an infamous California plate in front: 614 HSO. It'd probably be the first proper replica of Halicki's car. It's an ex-NY car, so RMH 100 might not be out of place either.

-Kurt

That would be cool. I have tried for years to turn people on to the original gone in 60. I hate the remake. Some people do get it though.

Ron

 

[cudak888]

That would be cool. I have tried for years to turn people on to the original gone in 60. I hate the remake. Some people do get it though.

Ron

Read the thread, Ron. It's not happening. Not with this car, anyway.

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

Gentlemen, I'm allowing a cooler head to prevail over what I said earlier. A local '71 owner (who has just joined up to our forum - welcome, Raul!) came by to look at the car for parts - and expressed interest in the rear window crossmember.

My first thought:

"This shell isn't that great, but it's too good to cut up for that."

Whatever the case, 3M's 8115 panel adhesive came to mind last night - when I realized that 75% all of the sheet metal issues with this car (floorpans, aprons, trunk floor, left quarter - repaired as a skin) can be addressed with it, at least in part.

That eliminates anywhere from 700-1000 time-consuming plug welds which I have no interest in doing (mainly the trunk floor job). Of course, the rotted rear framerail, torque boxes, cowl hat, and front window frame have to be fixed with welding, but that's workable.

Now that I've ascertained that I can do this without killing myself from the labor (trust me, that quarter patch on the '71 added a few years to me), question is: What about the cost?

This is what I've calculated:

Quarter patch: $200 (shipped estimate - this is for a quarter skin in New York that is unlike the current repops, and is finished correctly at the bottom. No sense in cutting up a new repop full quarter at $300 more).

Floorpan x2: $182.50

Original framerail cut out of a donor car: $50? Depends on what BigBlue wants for the back end rails cut out of his donor '72.

Aprons, front: $94.30

Aprons, rear: $99.90

Cowl patch: $60 (1970 patch panel cut and modified - maybe or maybe not; probably better off forming a panel and having a shop flange a cowl hat for me)

Trunk floor: $126.95

Dropoffs x2: $33.70

------------------------

Total w/o shipping: $847.35

NPD Florida shipping for all panels $110

------------------------

Grand total: $957.35

In short, $1k, not including sundries, to make the shell of this car acceptable. That does not include doors, which can either be donors repaired off another car, or new ones from NPD, which alone will add another $1k to the total.

The whole thing is currently in the red at $2,800, and the cylinder head job w/3-angle valve job ($125/head) will bring it up to $3,050.

$4,050 with sheet metal, and it'll be more than that with about $200 for bonding supplies and 2K primer - very conservative number there.

I'm a bird-in-the-hand sort of fellow though. It's not the best starting point, but its a better starting point than nothing.

Taking our general blind-sighted enthusiasm out of the picture, what would you fellows say? Is this sensible to do on a run-of-the-mill '72 Q-code*?

-Kurt

*It's one of 382 - nothing to brag about to begin with - but an Eleanor clone will negated the entire thing due to an interior swap; rendering originality a moot point. Given the torn-up condition of this car, I do feel that it's better to turn this one into a replica than a more intact example more worthy of being preserved in its original state.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Personally, I say throw a cover over it, get Soylent Green back together and on the road, then worry about Eleanor. When you're driving to the parts store or wherever in search of 'new' things for Eleanor, it'll be just that much sweeter, along with being a monster morale and enthusiasm booster.

Plus, you won't be staring down two unfinished projects - that'll take a lot of the load off ya... trust me on that... and when you get in the middle of it, it might not seem so much like 'work.'

Just my two pennies.

 

[cudak888]

Personally, I say throw a cover over it, get Soylent Green back together and on the road, then worry about Eleanor. When you're driving to the parts store or wherever in search of 'new' things for Eleanor, it'll be just that much sweeter, along with being a monster morale and enthusiasm booster.

True - though Soylent is going to require a cowl job after the LH quarter disaster is squared away with - and I was somewhat hoping that I could use Eleanor as a pilot for the cowl job.

FYI, nobody in town has parts for these. Josue's (BigBlue's) 1972 parts car IS our only local parts source, aside from whatever junk shows up by luck on Craigslist which someone is willing to part out (once in a blue moon, and usually overpriced).

-Kurt