Final Sanding

[manyo]

Manyo, is your basecoat solvent based or water based? Why do you want to sand your basecoat per say?

Greg.

Hi Greg,

I am using solvent base solid color . The reason I want to wet sand between color and clear is to ensure there is no dust in between . I would hate to have dust trapped under my clear.

Thanks again for your help. Manyo

 

[Austin Vert]

Manyo, is your basecoat solvent based or water based? Why do you want to sand your basecoat per say?

Greg.

Hi Greg,

I am using solvent base solid color . The reason I want to wet sand between color and clear is to ensure there is no dust in between . I would hate to have dust trapped under my clear.

Thanks again for your help. Manyo

Manyo,

The news for you is not all that good in terms of what you want to do here. Solvent basecoats whether they're solid or metallic are not designed to be all over wet sanded before you apply the clearcoats. When you spray in a clean as possible spraybooth, you will still get random small amounts of dirt which will land in your job. It's almost unavoidable. Solvent basecoats will tolerate, and are designed to be lightly scuffed with wet&dry paper,wet or dry , where the dirt nib has occured to remove and level the nib.

When this scuffing or light sanding process has been dealt with, YOU MUST APPLY MORE BASCOAT OVER WHAT YOU HAVE LAID DOWN ALREADY TO HIDE THE BLEMISHES. In doing that, you may encounter more dirt landing or being attracted to your job. You then will repeat the process above till you are satisfied that there are no visble dirt nibs in your job. At this stage, you are now ready to apply your clearcoat. That is the correct proceedure.

If you insist on wet sanding the entire panels, the basecoat that you have laid down, must be very dry, and after sanding, you must be very careful to dry the surface off, and remove all traces of sanding residues. As i have said, the basecoat paint film is very delicate, and is subject to surface damage very easily, which is a big reason not to sand all over.At that stage you must apply more basecoat to achieve a good looking basecoat finish before the clear goes on.In other words, you can't wet sand down the entire surface, dry off, and move straight into your clearcoat. You won't get the result you want doing it that way.You must apply more basecoat all over the panels before the clear is applied.

If you are spraying in a place other than a proper spraybooth, you will have an increased risk of attracting more dirt to your job, and that will meen a lot more scuffing the dirt nibs as you lay down your basecoat, and a lot more basecoat material will be used up. Also, it must be realised and expected, that you will get even more dirt nibs landing in your clearcoat as well, when spraying in a non spraybooth situation. So to answer your first question, i would scuff the nibs with 1000 or 1200 wet & dry. 800 will be too coarse a grade of paper, and leave too many scratches. 1200 or 1000 would be the choice if you insist on wet sanding all over. That is something i would not attempt to do though.

One more important point to say. Read you paint companies tech sheets on the TIMING of the basecoat you have just sprayed, to when you end up applying your clearcoat. The times vary from paint company to company. If you leave this delay time go for too long,and outside of the recommended paint companies time rules, you will risk delamination occuring. That means your clear won't end up adhereing to your basecoat and will peel away off the basecoat in large wide strips. That is someting you DON'T want to happen!

Hope that helps,

Greg.

 

[caspianwendell]

Sanding between base and clear will show through. You would be better off to do as Scott advised "2 coats of clear, sand, and finish with 2 more coats of clear. As Gregg pointed out, it it virtually impossible to keep any dust from attracting to wet paint, but if you clean, clean, and then clean some more, wet the area with water before spraying, and if you want a little extra protection, use plastic hung from the walls cause it always has a static charge and will pull dust to it.

 

[Austin Vert]

Hi Wendell,

You said.....................Sanding between base and clear will show through.

If you use the correct grade of paper, and recoat your basecoat over your scuffed down nibs, you will get a top finish. I do this all the time on my jobs at work.

Greg.

 

[Qcode351mach]

Hi Wendell,

You said.....................Sanding between base and clear will show through.

If you use the correct grade of paper, and recoat your basecoat over your scuffed down nibs, you will get a top finish. I do this all the time on my jobs at work.

Greg.

You are correct Greg..Lots of times too you may find a small spot you missed or defects that may need more work..I think Wendell was referring to just sanding & clearing

 

[Austin Vert]

Hi Wendell,

You said.....................Sanding between base and clear will show through.

If you use the correct grade of paper, and recoat your basecoat over your scuffed down nibs, you will get a top finish. I do this all the time on my jobs at work.

Greg.

You are correct Greg..Lots of times too you may find a small spot you missed or defects that may need more work..I think Wendell was referring to just sanding & clearing

Thanks Scott, got that and understood.

Greg.

 

[DK73]

Hi manyo Cant weait too see your Ride when it's finish:-D

Regards DK73

 

[manyo]

Hi manyo Cant weait too see your Ride when it's finish:-D

Regards DK73

Thanks DK, i am getting closer. Started 11/1/13 , getting down to paint and reassembly.[attachment=26427][attachment=26428][attachment=26429]

 

[Qcode351mach]

If you want a perfect process show car finish these guys have it down pact.

It's pretty much the way I've done my show car work over the years..

 

[caspianwendell]

Hi Wendell,

You said.....................Sanding between base and clear will show through.

If you use the correct grade of paper, and recoat your basecoat over your scuffed down nibs, you will get a top finish. I do this all the time on my jobs at work.

Greg.

You are correct Greg..Lots of times too you may find a small spot you missed or defects that may need more work..I think Wendell was referring to just sanding & clearing

Yes Gregg, I just wanted to be "clear" that you cannot just spray clear on a sanded surface.

 

[manyo]

Hi Wendell,

You said.....................Sanding between base and clear will show through.

If you use the correct grade of paper, and recoat your basecoat over your scuffed down nibs, you will get a top finish. I do this all the time on my jobs at work.

Greg.

You are correct Greg..Lots of times too you may find a small spot you missed or defects that may need more work..I think Wendell was referring to just sanding & clearing

Yes Gregg, I just wanted to be "clear" that you cannot just spray clear on a sanded surface.

Thanks for all your help guys!!! Next question, can anyone recommend a good flat black for my hood and rockers?? I cant use a single stage lauquer can I ???

 

[DK73]

Hi manyo thank you four your feedback;-) Your Ride iss gona Bee beauteful:-D Regards DK73

Regards DK73

 

[Austin Vert]

Thanks for all your help guys!!! Next question, can anyone recommend a good flat black for my hood and rockers?? I cant use a single stage lauquer can I ???

Manyo,

YES YOU CAN!

This question has been dealt with at length before on the forum. My basic advice still stands as it did before, that i prefer to use a single pack, good quality matt or satin black, acrylic lacquer to spray the hood blackout. Make sure the paint is a top quality brand. I like PPG. Also use good quality thiners to reduce down. Cheap thinners causes paint problems when applying and later down the track.

You could talk on forever about this subject, as there is a fair bit to it. Some guys use 2Pak matt or satin blacks (premixed or they add flatting base to their mix). Others use black basecoats and then spray 2Pak flat or satin clearcoats over the basecoat(again, premixed or they add flatting base to the mix).

All 2Pak paints offer more durability and good wear properties over lacquer, but as i have said before, the main problem when spraying in 2Pak, is you have to spray in an extremely clean booth, BECAUSE YOU WILL GET NIBS AND DUST IN THE JOB, and they can't be removed. Drying/ sanding and refinishing is the only remedy to remove them, and then the same problem will most likely occur again with you next shoot.That will cause you to have too much paint build up on the hood, if you have to do 2 or 3 separate shoots to overcome the dirt problem. With lacquer, you can denib on the fly when you are applying your black paint, and thus, get around this problem. It's a great problem solver for the DIY and home painting boys who have not got very clean professional spraybooths.

Finally, i shot lacquer on my hood, and was not disappointed,(looks great, no nibs, and is durable enough for me, and can easily be touched up or refinished later) and i will be using 2Pak premixed satin black for my lower sills and rocker panels, as you need durability for stone chip resistence down there.If you want to, you could use lacquer on these lower sections instead of 2Pak. You will end up getting a good looking result, but it won't be as hard wearing or durable as the 2Pak finish.(lacquer is easier to touch up as well) You must shoot your lacquer from a spray gun and not a rattle can. Using cans on your hood is a waste of time, and won't give you the finish you are chasing.

Hope that helps,

Greg.

 

[manyo]

Thanks for all your help guys!!! Next question, can anyone recommend a good flat black for my hood and rockers?? I cant use a single stage lauquer can I ???

Manyo,

YES YOU CAN!

This question has been dealt with at length before on the forum. My basic advice still stands as it did before, that i prefer to use a single pack, good quality matt or satin black, acrylic lacquer to spray the hood blackout. Make sure the paint is a top quality brand. I like PPG. Also use good quality thiners to reduce down. Cheap thinners causes paint problems when applying and later down the track.

You could talk on forever about this subject, as there is a fair bit to it. Some guys use 2Pak matt or satin blacks (premixed or they add flatting base to their mix). Others use black basecoats and then spray 2Pak flat or satin clearcoats over the basecoat(again, premixed or they add flatting base to the mix).

All 2Pak paints offer more durability and good wear properties over lacquer, but as i have said before, the main problem when spraying in 2Pak, is you have to spray in an extremely clean booth, BECAUSE YOU WILL GET NIBS AND DUST IN THE JOB, and they can't be removed. Drying/ sanding and refinishing is the only remedy to remove them, and then the same problem will most likely occur again with you next shoot.That will cause you to have too much paint build up on the hood, if you have to do 2 or 3 separate shoots to overcome the dirt problem. With lacquer, you can denib on the fly when you are applying your black paint, and thus, get around this problem. It's a great problem solver for the DIY and home painting boys who have not got very clean professional spraybooths.

Finally, i shot lacquer on my hood, and was not disappointed,(looks great, no nibs, and is durable enough for me, and can easily be touched up or refinished later) and i will be using 2Pak premixed satin black for my lower sills and rocker panels, as you need durability for stone chip resistence down there.If you want to, you could use lacquer on these lower sections instead of 2Pak. You will end up getting a good looking result, but it won't be as hard wearing or durable as the 2Pak finish.(lacquer is easier to touch up as well) You must shoot your lacquer from a spray gun and not a rattle can. Using cans on your hood is a waste of time, and won't give you the finish you are chasing.

Hope that helps,

Greg.

That's great to know! I did use the PPG's Flat Lacquer years ago and had great success with it. I am glad to hear I can use it again.

I probably should polish the area around my flat black first, correct? Don't want to jack up my newly laid black. That leads me to my next question Greg, what's your polishing method preference?

Thanks again for all the great advice!!!

 

[Austin Vert]

Hi Manyo,

I probably should polish the area around my flat black first, correct? Don't want to jack up my newly laid black. That leads me to my next question Greg, what's your polishing method preference?

Yes, any cutting and polishing work should be done first, and then mask up and lay your black down in that order. If you encounter any glossy areas where the black will be going, just dry scuff down again with 1000 w&d for adhesion. If you don't do it that way, then after you spray the black and let it dry properly, you will then have to carefully mask off the black again so as not to damage it when you are buffing and polishing.

Regards my polishing m&p................Wow!, there's a lot to talk about in that regard. To keep it simple, i use a 2Pak cutting compound called Farecla to cut and polish my clears, and prefer to use short nap lambswool bonnets to cut with instead of foam pads.The wool bonnets cut faster than foam pads do. To remove haze, swirl etc, i final power polish with 3M grey colored soft foam polishing pads, in cojunction with Wicked liquid wax or 3M final glaze products. I run an AEG single speed buff/polisher, but newer variable speed buffers offer better buffing control for the user. As far as my cutting and polishing techniques are concerned, i could ramble on for hours about all of this with the tech tips and do's and dont's asssociated with the procedures.

I think a great way for you to learn all about buffing and polishing, is to go to Utube videos, and type in Buffing and polishing new car paint finishes. You will see a fair few videos that deal with that very subject, and thus you will get a very good info pickup to put you in the picture.Also, try this approach in relation to other aspects of refinishing you car as well. The different videos become a very good source of information to the DIY boys.

Try the vids, and if you have any further specific questions, let me know.

Your reference .........................




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IAU21Hsa_w

Thanks,

Greg.

 

[Qcode351mach]

I guess he didn't watch the wet sanding & buffing vid I posted..If he's never used a wool pad before he's going to burn through for sure there's lots of complex sharp corners on these cars plenty of places just asking for a burn through..Better to spend hours more time with a foam pad for a beginner than risk a burn though..Burn through & you're back in the booth painting again. It takes years & hours of buffing to develop the "feel" when using a wool pad definitely not for beginners. JMHO

 

[caspianwendell]

Another tip that I did not see mentioned is when cutting and buffing, be very careful at edges. Do not cut or buff these areas like the flat areas. just a quick touch is all that is required or as Q said "it's back in the booth"