Gone in 60 Seconds (1974) - observations, did Halicki really steal Eleanor, etc

[cudak888]

Kit, I find it hard to believe that nobody mentioned a third car until now, which would bring the whereabouts of that one into question as well.

Honestly, there isn't enough in the film for me to positively ID the intact car in the one scene where both cars are in the same shot, but I did come up with some things upon tonight's viewing.

I'm providing photos of the previous observations of my past posts, plus new ones. I'm too tired to list everything, so I'll post my conclusions in the morning. In the meantime, please make do with the captions.

***Warning: SPOILERS HEREIN FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT SEEN THE FILM.***

First off, let me preface this by noting that the ONLY consistency measure that Halicki seemed to put effort into were the tires mounted to any given car. The beauty car wears both the dual-line white pinstripe tires and the Goodyears in the film, depending on the scene and the car it is representing.

Every single shot with a "beauty" Eleanor or interior shot uses the same Deluxe interior car with the standard seats. This is established when the car is driven off from International Towers. Note that the beauty car has speakers in the sportdeck inner quarter panel fillers:

No center console; must be a shorty:

Beauty car exits International Towers. This was shot separately from the crash immediately following, which substituted the crash car:

Possibly the only shot of the crash car prior to any crash. Not enough details to see here:

Halicki gets rear-ended by the Cadillac. The whole car bulges in the center for a second, and the left framerail and quarter permanently bend down from the hit. The beltline on the quarter bends down as well, and the panel puckers twice over the wheelhouse.

Note the strip of steel extending from behind the rear framerail - this is part of the "skidplate" installed in anticipation of shooting the jump later.

From here on out, all damage scenes show a car with a sagging rear quarter and framerail. You can damage a framerail with a sledgehammer, but to bend the entire quarter of an intact car to perfectly match this one would be very difficult without a similar impact. Note that the car carries the sag to this day:

Eleanor spins out. Only shot we have of the RH side before cutting to a different angle. Note the jagged, horizontal damage on the quarter, near the end cap:

Car comes to a rest. Big impression in the fender, crumpled hood, flat front tire, rear leaf spring or a shackle gives out:

Pole lands in FRONT of the car, while the lamp's shroud falls down behind the car:

New angle, different camera, but the dust is still flying and the pole is in the proper location. Compare the damage to the end cap area of the RH quarter with the end cap damage in the previous spinout shot.

It's the same car and the same take - Halicki was just lucky to have a crew sitting on the off-ramp expecting to shoot the car jumping over the median to get to the exit ramp:

We move to a new angle from the front. This begins the completely new take. The pole now sits on top of the car, while the lamp shroud is sitting on the trunk. RH fender has the exact same creases in it as the car that spun out into the pole.

Conclusion? Same car, different take - thus beginning the "new week" of filming after repairing the car and putting the light pole back into place (after running off with it following the previous shoot).

Eleanor drives off; quarter has the correct creases in it, and it's sagging. Same car that pulls out from under the lamp, which is the same car that ran INTO the lamp and got repaired. Not the greatest shot to show the sag (the creases are plain as day though), but I'm not going back into VLC tonight to prove it.

Eleanor comes off the highway. Same creases, dents, and bends - including the two creases on the rear quarter, which can't be replicated that easily.

Halicki spins out after jumping. Skid plates are there, as are the two creases and the sag - with more to boot. The original crease marks remain there, along with the new ones:

First car wash shot. Beauty Eleanor, and we don't know quite which one it is. There is a Mopar C-body fuselage car next to a pole.

Halicki pulls into the car wash. Some sort of wagon/SUV crossover is parked under the Shakeys Pizza Parlor sign:

Cutscene shows Halicki driving by with unknown beauty Eleanor in back. Kit has hypothesized the beauty car to be a third Eleanor; I disagree.

The beauty car seems to have a slight bumper gap here, but it's so small as to be debatable. Also take note that the wrecked Eleanor is the same one we've seen all along, with the skidplate straps from the jump, correct dents, sag, etc.:

Back to the previous angle. The Mopar C-body is back there, so we know this and the shot from the road were taken at the same time.

The cutscene where both cars are visible at the same time may have been shot the same day with the same cars, but it was a different take - you would have seen the camera and crew next to the phone booth otherwise.

Junker rolls up for a wash. Same wrecked car we've seen for the last 40 minutes. Lighting appears to be a bit past noontime/afternoon:

Same car in the reverse shot too, with standard door panels. Also pay attention to the convertible first-gen Camaro convertible.

Beauty Eleanor gets taken through the wash. Note that bumper gap, then compare it with the second picture from the warehouse sequence earlier in the film. Same car. Actress in the background is wearing the same dress as the later shots. Unusually good Halicki continuity here, which makes me think that this scene was NOT shot months before or later.

Beauty Eleanor comes out of the wash. It's the International Towers interior/exterior beauty car - note those rear panel speakers (enhanced in the photo), if the deluxe interior with standard seats don't convince you.

Also note that the Camaro has now moved from the entrance (at the back of the building) to the front. Sunlight is not high in the sky like previous shots, and it appears to be setting. This was not shot the same day as the previous scenes - earlier or later, maybe.

Beauty car drives off (Deluxe interior w/stnd. seats). Trunk has two rough spots.

(Completely by chance, say "Hello" to what looks like the Vailiant from Duel in the background - though it appears to be a 2-door)

Wrecked Eleanor rolls out of the wash. Deluxe seats. Same wrecked car as the last 1000 shots - not a substitute - and the car that survives today (with the same exact damage).

Camaro is in the background; this was shot the same day as the previous scene ("we have to rewash it") with the beauty car. The Camaro and the '59 El Camino - along with some others - do some bouncing around the car wash, so these are likely Halicki's own vehicles, trucked in to fill the scenes.

The LAPD rolls by the car wash in a '70 Montego (Gone in 60 Seconds Montego trivia: 1-Baker-11 is a '70 Montego as well, but the '70 grill inserts were removed and a '71 grill stuffed in the center as a quick replacement). The blue wagon/SUV is gone, and the parking lot at the hotel across the street has changed entirely. Not the same day as the previous take where Eleanor rolls in.

Cutscene shows that the Camaro moved again. It shows up in the next shot when the Montego drives in, but this shot was not captured from the Montego as it rolled in, as no camera is visible in the car with the officers.

Eleanor wreck is the same car that hit the pole and did the jump; damage matches up.

Geez, that took a while...

-Kurt

 

[Knoxferatu]

Wow, that's one magic Bullitt!... er, I mean Eleanor.

 

[luxstang]

Curt, you never cease to amaze me.

 

[cudak888]

Just in case the use of the two cars appears confusing, here are a few more screencaps from this morning.

Halicki leaves International Towers and trades paint with 1-Baker-11 - but the window-to-window shots were filmed with the beauty car. Note the standard seats, the lack of any damage, and the front fender sitting where it belongs (not to mention Halicki grinning):

Halicki plows through traffic. Passenger's seat is definitely Deluxe, which means this is the same wrecked Eleanor as at the car wash (and the same vehicle to survive today):

Skidplates visible early in the Long Beach shots. They've been on the wrecked car since the start. The beauty car has NOT been set up with skidplates.

Halicki crashes into some trash. The buckle design on the passenger's Deluxe seat is visible.

The park scenes give us a really good look at the skid plate - more accurately, skid strips. Remember this detail and the bodyside damage - it will be of importance in a minute. Also take particular note of the rollcage along the interior A-pillar, which is superbly visible in this shot. The beauty car has no cage.

Halicki rolls to a stop in the park. Passenger seat is Deluxe:

Now - the ONLY time we get to see inside the wrecked Eleanor (other than looking forward towards the dashboard) is when Halicki puts his hands up. The rollcage is clearly visible at the left, and so is the Arriflex 35mm film camera mounted in the back seat area.

Eleanor crawls forward. Someone here knew the skidplate would be too obvious, so the beauty car was substituted - not the slightest bit of damage on that fender. Looks like the crossmember did take a mild hit from something, but not from the film.

Also note that the shot is either early morning or late afternoon and does not match up, lighting-wise, with the previous park shots - not to mention that nobody is sitting in the grass behind the car.

On a side note, the hubcap on THIS wheel only is wrong. It's a thinner hubcap for a 14x6" wheel, and its polished, not brushed, which suggests a pre-1971 hubcap. Eleanor is riding on Mach 1-spec 14x7" rims, and the deeper trim rings reflect such. This is the only wheel to wear the wrong hubcap; the other three wear the deeper, correct hubcaps for the wider rim.

Eleanor powers out. No damage (other than a slight nick at the door), while the wrecked car has acquired a crease on the forward section of the wheelwell and across the door at this point. Again, the beauty car has been substituted:

And that's it for me.

My conclusions?

1. As we see it in the film, Halicki never used anything but one wrecked Eleanor to play Wrecked Eleanor.
   
2. Wrecked Eleanor's damage evolves from International Towers to the car wash. The evolution of damage is properly chronological, and no second car shows up at any point to represent it.
   
3. Deluxe seats and skidplates unique to the wrecked car - and not in the beauty car - further confirm #2.
   
4. The film shows no evidence that the beauty car was ever modified to accept a rollcage, negating that it received similar modifications as the wrecked car, or that it was used for stuntwork.
   
5. Conclusion: A beauty car survived at the end of filming and was the same car that represented the beauty Eleanor at the car wash. Why not?
   
6. Observation: Halicki says he had to crush "the other car."
   
7. Conclusion: There is no possible "other car" than the beauty car. Hence, what car was there left to crush?
   
8. Hypothesis: Why crush it? Front clip a bit too telling?
   

Was he really was an egomaniac car thief who was so smug about his ability to evade capture - and play the inefficiency of the VIN system - that he made a film about it, which nobody could nail him for?

Did he use two stolen cars to play the lead as icing on the cake?

Is Kit correct in that this film is essentially a huge middle finger salute to the auto theft division of every police force in the nation?

The soapbox is now open.

Curt, you never cease to amaze me.

I'd rather have a bit more sleep than amazement

-Kurt


One last thing - I remembered reading one interview claiming that Halicki said he was a car thief. Found it after some Googling.

The following is a transcript of a live interview with Ronald D. Moore of Battlestar Galactica (http://www.comingsoon.net/films.php?id=17154):

Q: Who is the worst person you've ever worked for?
Moore: I worked for a crazy man once. The late great Toby Halicki. There once was a man named Toby Halicki who did two films. He did the original "Gone in 60 Seconds" and he later did a film called "The Junkman."

Essentially Toby was a car thief and he told us. He stole cars like in the early 70's and then made a film about it called "Gone in 60 Seconds." He was stealing cars to finance his film. He was a guerrilla filmmaker. Toby would shut down the freeway and just shoot a stunt without asking anyone's permission. He was truly a guerrilla filmmaker. He made a mint off the original "Gone in 60 Seconds."

Many years later he decided to make a sequel…Toby was looking for someone to writer the sequel to "Gone in 60 Seconds" so I went and I helped write it and Toby said "sure you can come write it and you can also come manage my toy business."

There is more to that interview, if you see the link. Ron Moore's words, not mine. I originally dismissed the equation the character of Maindrian Pace with the actual H.B. Halicki as Moore's spite and bitterness.

Just the same, that front clip swap and the "Incredible Disappearing Second Eleanor"...well, draw your own conclusions.

Here is a taped version of the Ron Moore interview. Again, draw your own conclusions:

[video=youtube]


-Kurt

 

[ib4stangs]

"1.In exactly ONE scene, both cars are seen at the car wash in their polar opposite forms. One mint, one wrecked."

I believe I see another scene with both cars. Check right after the DJ mentions a chase happing in front of KFOX studios and before the old lady in park hits it with a umbrella. He turns a right corner and you see the rear of "Beauty Car" parked in car row on right. Then again from back seat of chase car.

Another observation...no steering wheel when cops tell him to put his hands on the windshield...;-)

 

[cudak888]

"1.In exactly ONE scene, both cars are seen at the car wash in their polar opposite forms. One mint, one wrecked."

I believe I see another scene with both cars. Check right after the DJ mentions a chase happing in front of KFOX studios and before the old lady in park hits it with a umbrella. He turns a right corner and you see the rear of "Beauty Car" parked in car row on right. Then again from back seat of chase car.

Another observation...no steering wheel when cops tell him to put his hands on the windshield...;-)

True, but that was before Halicki ran into the lamp post. The fate of the beauty car is only important after the lamppost scene - though I believe I've ascertained quite well that the shots taken later are with the exact same car.

Good catch on the steering wheel.

-Kurt

 

[whitesoc]

I think I remember reading somewhere that Halicki hit the lamp post and they had to stop filming for the day, so they took the lamp post with them and brought it back when they could finish the scene.

 

[cudak888]

I think I remember reading somewhere that Halicki hit the lamp post and they had to stop filming for the day, so they took the lamp post with them and brought it back when they could finish the scene.

Mustang Monthly's interview with Denice Halicki and Michael Leone is where that comes from:

Michael: When he hit the telephone pole' date=' he had to load Eleanor on a truck and take the pole too because they needed it for the next frame. They came back the next Sunday, dropped the pole off in its spot, and started filming again. They had to take the pole because if they didn't, the city would pick it up and they wouldn't be able to shoot the next scene.[/quote']
-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

Gentlemen, given the nature of the topic here and the fact that the estate may still be as litigious as Toby himself, I had Dan put it here in the VIP Lounge to give ourselves some protection from potentially "interested" parties.

No offense intended to those without VIP accounts.

I'm still open to discussion about which car is which and the questionable "financial backing" of the film.

-Kurt

 

[luxstang]

Yeah, I was going to ask if we should be concerned about getting in trouble for calling someone a criminal and when I logged in I saw you had the same idea.

Something else is bothering me. The stripped Eleanor shows the weld that suggests that the whole front has been swapped which led us to conclusions.

That only makes sense if that particular Eleanor was stolen. Then why bother replacing the front clip with a legit one when you know you are going to wreck the car completely?

Except maybe he knew he was gonna keep the wreck afterwards but how could he know that

A) the wreck would survive in a state that still held together and

B) the film would become successful enough to warrant keeping the car. He couldn't even be sure that the movie would be finished or, if so if it would be shown anywhere. So why plan to keep the wreck?

Or let's suppose that wrecked Eleanor was legit and swapped the front clip with beauty Eleanor so the stolen VIN would be wrecked and beauty Eleanor would become legit... Then where is beauty Eleanor now and why keep the wreck with the stolen VIN?

It doesn't add up.

One thing to consider is that beauty Eleanor could have been legit too and could simply have been sold as a regular used car after the filming.

That leaves all scenarios open.

It's still somewhere, it's been repainted and turned into a mach1 clone, it's served years as a grocery getter and went to the scrap yard or was parted out as a parts car. Who knows.

But my initial confusion about the swapping of VINs on a car that you know will be wrecked still irks me.

 

[cudak888]

Something else is bothering me. The stripped Eleanor shows the weld that suggests that the whole front has been swapped which led us to conclusions.

That only makes sense if that particular Eleanor was stolen. Then why bother replacing the front clip with a legit one when you know you are going to wreck the car completely?

Except maybe he knew he was gonna keep the wreck afterwards but how could he know that

A) the wreck would survive in a state that still held together and

B) the film would become successful enough to warrant keeping the car. He couldn't even be sure that the movie would be finished or, if so if it would be shown anywhere. So why plan to keep the wreck?

Or let's suppose that wrecked Eleanor was legit and swapped the front clip with beauty Eleanor so the stolen VIN would be wrecked and beauty Eleanor would become legit... Then where is beauty Eleanor now and why keep the wreck with the stolen VIN?

It doesn't add up.

One thing to consider is that beauty Eleanor could have been legit too and could simply have been sold as a regular used car after the filming.

That leaves all scenarios open.

It's still somewhere, it's been repainted and turned into a mach1 clone, it's served years as a grocery getter and went to the scrap yard or was parted out as a parts car. Who knows.

But my initial confusion about the swapping of VINs on a car that you know will be wrecked still irks me.

All good points. Again, the following is conjecture, but this is my theory:

1. Halicki dragged the wrecked car from theater to theater. Being the showman that he was, he probably planned to have the car in the public eye before he shot the film.
   
2. Regardless of whether the car would be up for public scrutiny, there was always the possibility that the car might have torn a fender off during filming, uncovering a mis-matched VIN on the shock tower vs. the dashboard.
   
3. Being that his junkyard was said to be under investigation every now and then, the star car of his film would have been a prime target in front of any LA movie theater.
   

On the other hand, Halicki may not have planned to drag the beauty car around, and - knowing that the fenders would stay firmly planted on that car - didn't bother to swap the front clip. If anyone from the authorities decided to investigate, this car would be a smoking gun - hence Halicki inventing an implausible story to Kit to explain its destruction.

Halicki doesn't sound like a fellow who'd sell the beauty Eleanor - he loved his toys, and Eleanor took center stage. If I recall right, one interview claimed that 1-Baker-11 Montego has stayed with Denice along with the beauty car, despite the rising costs of the lawsuits.

-Kurt

 

[cudak888]

FYI, I've been listening to the audio commentary on the DVD. Jack Vacek made a reference to when he first saw Halicki's Mustangs:

"...one all tricked out with that rollcage, and the other mostly stock, I said - what the heck are these guys doing?"

Pretty good proof right there that the beauty car was never set up for the stunts.

-Kurt

 

[72HCODE]

i like watching this movie, good enough for me also i have the junkman , and the bits of gone in 60 seconds 2 that were filmed.

SLICER SLICER SLICER



i didn't like the remake in 83 deadline auto theft.

 

[Don65Stang]

Interesting thread. For fun I adjusted the color on the yellowed photo for your viewing pleasure.

 

[Boss1Ray]

Really good thread. I'm with Lux - Curt never ceases...

Good info - Thanks Kit and others!

BTW -

That "third car" is in a barn somewhere in Oklahoma just waiting for me to stop by and pull back the covers!!!!!!!!



Ray

 

[cudak888]

Don, Ray, et. al:

I've been staring at the skinless stunt Eleanor picture for a while now:

Like Don, I color-corrected the image; in this case, the big, full-resolution copy - which I was able to upres 200% without losing that much detail, while making it easier for you fellows to see what I've been zooming on in Photoshop.

Shock tower welds aside, I've noticed some other important details:

1. The yellow on the forward tip of the rocker panel. If anything, that's the original paint of the car, and it has a blackout on the rocker behind it. Medium Goldenrod Yellow or Bright Yellow? Looks light enough to be Bright Yellow to me, if I had to bet.
   
2. Color aside, this car has a blackout rocker panel. Provided the car is a '71, and not a '72 with the Decor Group, the stunt car did begin its life as a Mach 1.
   
3. Look at that steering wheel. That's nothing but the steel frame of the wheel. And why should the car be that rusty just a few years into it's life? You know what that looks like? A fire-damaged car.
   

I'm trying to narrow down the car with everything in sight in the picture. Seeing as this car was built any way Halicki wished from a shell, we can't really use the film as a guide. So far, I can see:

• Car was equipped with roll-down windows from factory, because the quarter window brackets are fixed. That, and the manual regulators are still sitting in the doors. Note that they blend in with everything else.
  
• Sportdeck rear seat frame. Not surprising; doubt if Halicki would have gone through the effort to change it if it wasn't.
  
• Steering wheel: Is it the base 2-spoke Pinto wheel or the Deluxe two-spoke with the full-width pad? According to this ad on eBay, the Pinto-style wheel has metal rod for spokes, which sits shallower in depth than the two-spoke. The two-spoke Deluxe has rectangular stock for spokes, and sits deeper, as seen here. I'm almost certain, from the angle of the spokes and the location of the turn signal, that this is a Deluxe two-spoke.
  

With that said, new hypothesis:

Stunt Eleanor was built from a Bright Yellow Mach 1 with an unknown interior color, and was equipped with Sportdeck rear seats and a Deluxe two-spoke steering wheel. The car was involved in a severe fire, which may or may not have been caused by a front-end collision.

Thoughts?

-Kurt

P.S.: Just for comparison (and since it was handy), here's a shot of Soylent's factory-untouched '71 inner structure with quarter panel removed. Nothing out of the ordinary under the skin of Halicki's car, far as I can see:

 

[Totalled]

It was clipped at least.

 

[cudak888]

It was clipped at least.

And from the looks of it, from another used car.

I can't get that sticker on the battery tray apron out of my mind though. It is smaller than the usual Ford service part sticker (and that sticker is usually stuck on the wheelwell side of the panel anyway), but I've seen a few replacement panels with a small sticker on this side - but rarely that neatly up the panel.

It doesn't look like the panel has been replaced separately of the rest, which brings question to that theory to begin with. But it's a thought.

-Kurt

 

[Kit Sullivan]

Could that sticker be.....some kind of vehicle # identification placed there by Toby to help keep the cars straight? Remember, it took over 2 years to get all principal photograpby done on the film.

On the Nic Cage remake, each "Eleanor" had its unit # underneath the flap of the non-functional gas cap up on the sail panel.

 

[cudak888]

Could that sticker be.....some kind of vehicle # identification placed there by Toby to help keep the cars straight? Remember, it took over 2 years to get all principal photograpby done on the film.

On the Nic Cage remake, each "Eleanor" had its unit # underneath the flap of the non-functional gas cap up on the sail panel.

It could be, but I'd think that even Halicki's crew would have re-sprayed under the hood to keep the rust at bay. Nobody would have left that bare weld exposed for two years.

That, and only the stunt car would have been torn down at any given time, given that Jack Vacek's commentary on the film notes that when he first saw the two cars, one was fitted with the roll cage and safety equipment, while the other appeared bone-stock (barring the color scheme).

Identification would not have been that much of an issue - especially given the small crew VS. a big operation like Cinema Vehicle Services - though undoubtedly a wise move in any case.

Anything else spring out in this picture that I might have overlooked?

-Kurt