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salhi_aemr

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i was able to change my order at the last minute and went with Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap 7564

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barnett468

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i was able to change my order at the last minute and went with Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap 7564
you cant go wrong with that for a good all around manifold . . the one i listed would have a bit more power but the air gap is good enough . .

 
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salhi_aemr

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Thank you John, and thank you Barnett for your great advises. Planning into breaking engine with Joe Gibbs Driven BR Break-In Motor Oil 00106 15W50, what should I use after the break in oil? should I change oil after break in or drive it for 1000 miles. I was thinking Mobil 1 15W-50 with added COMP Cams Engine Break-In Oil Additive

 
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barnett468

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Thank you John, and thank you Barnett for your great advises. Planning into breaking engine with Joe Gibbs Driven BR Break-In Motor Oil 00106 15W50, what should I use after the break in oil? should I change oil after break in or drive it for 1000 miles. I was thinking Mobil 1 15W-50 with added COMP Cams Engine Break-In Oil Additive

i would not add zinc to any poil . if you want synthetic with high levels of zinc, look at royal purple xps or xpr or brad penn and i think valvoline has it.

after break in, i would accelerate from around 30 mph to 45 mph in 3 rd gear then decellerate back to 30 and repeat this process every 30 seconds for around 15 minutes . . this will help the rings seal.

if the builder did a plateau finish on the cylinders, the rings will break in within maybe 100 miles . . otherwise, it might take around 300 . . i would not use synthetic until then just to be safe.

if you have a two piece rear main seal, it might leak if you use synthetic and it might not . .

 
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I change mine about 500 miles after break-in. I'm using Mobil 1 full synthetic 10w-30 with a zinc additive. I put about 2000 miles on it last year w/no problems. Changed the oil for the new season a week ago & old oil looked good. I live in Michigan so you may want to use a different viscosity oil than I do. I'm sure you know.



Thank you John, and thank you Barnett for your great advises. Planning into breaking engine with Joe Gibbs Driven BR Break-In Motor Oil 00106 15W50, what should I use after the break in oil? should I change oil after break in or drive it for 1000 miles. I was thinking Mobil 1 15W-50 with added COMP Cams Engine Break-In Oil Additive

i would not add zinc to any poil . if you want synthetic with high levels of zinc, look at royal purple xps or xpr or brad penn and i think valvoline has it.

after break in, i would accelerate from around 30 mph to 45 mph in 3 rd gear then decellerate back to 30 and repeat this process every 30 seconds for around 15 minutes . . this will help the rings seal.

if the builder did a plateau finish on the cylinders, the rings will break in within maybe 100 miles . . otherwise, it might take around 300 . . i would not use synthetic until then just to be safe.

if you have a two piece rear main seal, it might leak if you use synthetic and it might not . .
Why not add zinc? Don't you need to for flat tappet cams now? Am I using the wrong oil?

 
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barnett468

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I change mine about 500 miles after break-in. I'm using Mobil 1 full synthetic 10w-30 with a zinc additive. I put about 2000 miles on it last year w/no problems. Changed the oil for the new season a week ago & old oil looked good. I live in Michigan so you may want to use a different viscosity oil than I do. I'm sure you know.



Thank you John, and thank you Barnett for your great advises. Planning into breaking engine with Joe Gibbs Driven BR Break-In Motor Oil 00106 15W50, what should I use after the break in oil? should I change oil after break in or drive it for 1000 miles. I was thinking Mobil 1 15W-50 with added COMP Cams Engine Break-In Oil Additive

i would not add zinc to any poil . if you want synthetic with high levels of zinc, look at royal purple xps or xpr or brad penn and i think valvoline has it.

after break in, i would accelerate from around 30 mph to 45 mph in 3 rd gear then decellerate back to 30 and repeat this process every 30 seconds for around 15 minutes . . this will help the rings seal.

if the builder did a plateau finish on the cylinders, the rings will break in within maybe 100 miles . . otherwise, it might take around 300 . . i would not use synthetic until then just to be safe.

if you have a two piece rear main seal, it might leak if you use synthetic and it might not . .
Why not add zinc? Don't you need to for flat tappet cams now? Am I using the wrong oil?
Ok, xlnt but extremely complicated question . . I will give you a brief but sort of vague answer now and expand on it a little latter if necessary.

Most if not all oil mfgs will tell you not to do that.

Adding zddp to some, but not all oils, has been proven to reduce their shear capabilities.

Basically, oils are designed/blended so everything works together and adding zddp simply doesn’t work well in some.

Most if not all oils have some zddp in them . . I think Mobil 1 has around 700 ppm.

The “proper” amount of zddp in oil for a street engine has been determined to around 1150 – 1400 ppm with jie gibbs saying that the lower amount of 1150 is best.

If you add zddp to oil that you don’t know has zddp in it, it can raise the level to more than what has been determined optimal for a street engine . . some race engines use over 2000 ppm but they are expected to be rebuilt every few races.

More of something is not always better.

Now, after all that, there are 5.0 engines and other engines going over 200,000 on a regular basis with just mobil 1 which obviously has less than 1150 ppm.

Even though a certain amount of zddp is touted to be necessary for flat tappet cams, it also reduces wear on any part that moves.

Mobil 1 purportedly did some testing when it first came out and saw premature timing chain wear which they attributed to insufficient zddp in their oil at which point they increased the level and cured the problem.

 
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I change mine about 500 miles after break-in. I'm using Mobil 1 full synthetic 10w-30 with a zinc additive. I put about 2000 miles on it last year w/no problems. Changed the oil for the new season a week ago & old oil looked good. I live in Michigan so you may want to use a different viscosity oil than I do. I'm sure you know.



i would not add zinc to any poil . if you want synthetic with high levels of zinc, look at royal purple xps or xpr or brad penn and i think valvoline has it.

after break in, i would accelerate from around 30 mph to 45 mph in 3 rd gear then decellerate back to 30 and repeat this process every 30 seconds for around 15 minutes . . this will help the rings seal.

if the builder did a plateau finish on the cylinders, the rings will break in within maybe 100 miles . . otherwise, it might take around 300 . . i would not use synthetic until then just to be safe.

if you have a two piece rear main seal, it might leak if you use synthetic and it might not . .
Why not add zinc? Don't you need to for flat tappet cams now? Am I using the wrong oil?
Ok, xlnt but extremely complicated question . . I will give you a brief but sort of vague answer now and expand on it a little latter if necessary.

Most if not all oil mfgs will tell you not to do that.

Adding zddp to some, but not all oils, has been proven to reduce their shear capabilities.

Basically, oils are designed/blended so everything works together and adding zddp simply doesn’t work well in some.

Most if not all oils have some zddp in them . . I think Mobil 1 has around 700 ppm.

The “proper” amount of zddp in oil for a street engine has been determined to around 1150 – 1400 ppm with jie gibbs saying that the lower amount of 1150 is best.

If you add zddp to oil that you don’t know has zddp in it, it can raise the level to more than what has been determined optimal for a street engine . . some race engines use over 2000 ppm but they are expected to be rebuilt every few races.

More of something is not always better.

Now, after all that, there are 5.0 engines and other engines going over 200,000 on a regular basis with just mobil 1 which obviously has less than 1150 ppm.

Even though a certain amount of zddp is touted to be necessary for flat tappet cams, it also reduces wear on any part that moves.

Mobil 1 purportedly did some testing when it first came out and saw premature timing chain wear which they attributed to insufficient zddp in their oil at which point they increased the level and cured the problem.
Ok, I didn't know they added that much, not sure what to do now. Thank's for that great explanation.


Salhi, sorry to give you some bad advice.

 
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barnett468

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Ok, I didn't know they added that much, not sure what to do now. Thank's for that great explanation.
no prob, you're welcome . . yeah, i had no idea either but i apparantly have a bit of an oil fettish so i did a lot of research and got double verification of claims when i could.

if you have a non roller cam and want oil with high levels of zddp, you can switch to one of the ones i posted if you want.

now, will, adding zddp to mobil 1 or any other oil significantly reduce the engines life . . well this cant easily be answered unless 2 exact engines are run for the exact same amount of time and then they are analyzed . . similar testing has been done but the percentage of life expectancy wasn't given, so the report wasnt that helpful.

All oil companies have a tech line to call and ask questions so calling mobil 1 and valvoline will give you some info, however, mobil 1 has posted something to the effect that zddp is not necessary for flat tappet cams . . i know this for a fact because i read it myself . . now if you ask valvoline or joe gibbs racing, they will say the opposite so the conflicting info continues.

also, amsoil, which only makes synthetic oil, says to break in the engine with non synthetic or the rings might not seal . . they actually tested this . . now why would a company that only sells synthetic oil tell people not to use it for break in if it wasn't, true . . now can and do rings beak in with synthetic oil?...yes...do they all break in properly?...no...does it take longer for them to break in with synthetic oil?...yes...is this 30 minutes longer or 300 miles longer?....from what i know and my own experience, if all other factors are the same, it can take 100 - 300 miles more to break them in with synthetic . . other peoples experiences may vary.

one difficulty in gathering accurate info on oil is that even some of the big companies disagree, however, there have been around a zillion tests done on zddp and every single one i have seen shows similar results.

i have also seen may oil comparison results and they are quite interesting.

they are now testing adding new space age nano particles used by nasa to oil that have less friction than graphite and teflon.

heres one big oil comparison test here . . check out both mobil oils and the royal purple.

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf

.



Salhi, sorry to give you some bad advice.
i would not say your advice was bad in any way, and my post was not intended to suggest that . . its just that there are better approaches to getting high levels of zddp these days . . how much better...hard to really tell.

also, i will be the first to tell you that i certainly don't know it all, lol.

 
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Thank's again barnett468, I have been confused about the oils since I got this car. Sure is different from the old days. I will go with one of the ones you suggested. Learn something new everyday here, love it.

btw, I wasn't offended in any way, glad you spoke up.

 

barnett468

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Thank's again barnett468, I have been confused about the oils since I got this car. Sure is different from the old days. I will go with one of the ones you suggested. Learn something new everyday here, love it.

btw, I wasn't offended in any way, glad you spoke up.
yeah, oil used to be oil, lol . . the best was quaker state and it rated the same as royal purple in the test i posted a link to . . you should check it out . . lots of cool info in it.

one of the reasons quaker was the best is because it has a natural parafinnic quality which causes the oil to stick to the parts better than other oils . . bradd penn oil is the same quaker state base.

some mfg's like lucas oil add parafin to their oil to achieve this sticky quality.

 
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Thank's again barnett468, I have been confused about the oils since I got this car. Sure is different from the old days. I will go with one of the ones you suggested. Learn something new everyday here, love it.

btw, I wasn't offended in any way, glad you spoke up.
yeah, oil used to be oil, lol . . the best was quaker state and it rated the same as royal purple in the test i posted a link to . . you should check it out . . lots of cool info in it.

one of the reasons quaker was the best is because it has a natural parafinnic quality which causes the oil to stick to the parts better than other oils . . bradd penn oil is the same quaker state base.

/some mfg's like lucas oil add parafin to their oil to achieve this sticky quality.
What kind do you use?
 
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If you have about an hour to kill, you can do some reading about modern oils and the effects of ZDDP and its relationship to engine wear.

So many people have so many theories and practices when it comes to engine oil and break in. It's difficult to know what is correct or best sometimes.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

 
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Ok I don't know how many of you read the info at the link "540 RAT Tech Facts Not Myths". I did manage to make it through it with 3 cups of coffee. I would have a couple questions to clarify his test procedures if I could contact him. I worked in the automotive stamping field and in todays world you sell your parts by supporting your dimensional reports on those parts with statistics. The days of measuring 3 or 4 parts and submitting for approval are long gone. You are required to submit at least a 30 piece study and I have had to submit a 100 piece study on a close tolerance part. During production you also run statistics to find out what your process variations are. I do not pretend to know this subject we had Quality employees that lived to do these studies. I was a tooling, product and process engineer.

I could not find in his extreme write up where he ever said what his test process was. Yes he described the physical test to establish a wear pattern that was measured to obtain a result. For his data to be accepted by anyone that knows testing or measurement data he would first need it to be a blind test with unmarked containers for the oil. You would number the test samples and the person running the testing would not know brand A from brand B. You would also have to do a minimum of 30 samples from each oil to obtain any kind of true data. A sample of one means nothing. The piece of material that the wear is measured on has variations that cannot be seen with a small sample. I would expect a person that deals in statistics would probably want multiple containers of oil to be tested there is variation there also.

It is good that someone is testing but they should follow accepted and proven data gathering to come to an accurate conclusion.

I hated those studies because they would show a weak process and you cannot argue with data, those darn quality engineers.

David

 

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you can run royal purple engine break in oil... contrary to what the bottle says it is the only oil that royal purple makes that is conventional.

the recommendation is run conventional oil for break in you can add Zinc but the engine break in formula is suppose to have enough zinc in it.

you break in the engine, then change the oil and filter and run for 1000-3000 miles on the engine break in formula then you can switch to synthetic if you want.

 

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salhi_aemr

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Thank you, by Monday I hope it will be fired

 

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The guy that wrote that article is has done some interesting and helpful testing, however, he is making some claims that are inaccurate, most likely because his “research” was limited . . Unfortunately, this is a good example of why you cant believe everything you read on the internet and should double check “facts” with more than one source . . His claim that he is an engineer has nothing to do with oil whatsoever because he is not an oil engineer/chemist . . His engineering degree might be in structural or electronics etc which have absolutely nothing to do with oil, therefore, his basic understanding of oil and test results may not much better than any other reasonably intelligent person if it is better at all.

FROM THE RAT

“And keep in mind that so-called Break-Oils with their typical low wear protection capability are absolutely NOT required for proper break-in and ring sealing. That has been proven over the past couple of decades by numerous Factories using highly ranked 5W30 Mobil 1 synthetic oil in their brand new performance vehicles. They break-in and seal their rings just fine, and of course come with a warranty.”

1. most auto mfg’s “plateau” hone their cylinders sand use thin rings which helps break them more quickly.

2. the phrase "highly ranked mobil 1" is relative and it has been proven in different tests that there are better oils out there.

3. there are two different types of “zddp”, one type establishes a long term protective layer . . the other is one that is designed to maintain and protect that layer . . joe gibbs break in oil has both types.

FROM AMSOIL

http://www.ultimatesyntheticoil.com/articles/converting_to_amsoil.htm

“The engine break-in issue is the subject of much controversy as everyone seems to have their opinion on when an engine is considered fully broken in. The information we provide is based on the results of engineering studies as well as many years of experience and teardown analysis on test vehicles. The differences between a vehicle that was properly and fully broken in and one that was not can often be hard to detect. There are tell-tale signs, but they are not easily detected except in all but the most extreme situations. The subject of what occurs during the break-in process can easily be the subject of a 100 page report, so what we cover in this website page is only the essential points you need to know. The break-in process we describe here is nothing compared to the extensive break-in process that race car engineers go through before an engine is ready to be converted to AMSOIL as well as racing in competition.

Breaking in an engine is a process of properly wearing-in the pistons/cylinders/rings, bearings, valves, camshaft, lifters, rockers, etc... In addition, part of the breaking in process is not only wearing-in and seating the internal engine components but also stress relieving the components as well. Crankshafts, connecting rods, pistons, blocks etc... have many stresses due to the casting or forging process, machining and welding process. We have viewed and measured these stresses, called fringes, using what is called lazer holography. These stresses are properly reduced/eliminated by costly and time consuming heat aging as well as shot peening and or high frequency vibration on a very specialized bedplate for an extended period of time. For production applications this is cost and time prohibitive. Therefore, the next best thing is exposing your engine to multiple heating and cooling cycles under various load and RPM's, which is described in the following paragraph. The heating and cooling break in process continues over a period of time and does not need to be run on petroleum oil.

Breaking in a new engine is the one area that petroleum oil is better for than synthetics. You see, petroleum oil has a very low film strength compared to synthetics. That's bad for long-term wear-protection, but it's ideal for breaking in a new engine. That is why we recommend you run the factory installed petroleum oil for about the about the first 500 miles. Then drain the oil, remove the factory installed oil filter and then install AMSOIL Synthetic motor oil and an AMSOIL EaO oil filter and you're ready to go. For diesel engines we recommend the same procedure, except at the 500 mile oil-change use conventional petroleum oil combined with an AMSOIL EaO nanofiber oil filter. The petroleum oil will better allow the break-in to continue, while the nanofiber oil filter will reduce wear particle damage by about 70% compared to standard or OEM filters.”

FROM THE RAT

“Using much higher ranking motor oils with their much higher wear protection capability, means that special break-in procedures ARE NOT REQUIRED.”

This is simply wrong, as Amsoil implies and logic dictates, the rings must contact the cylinder to break in . . using oil that prevents this prevents the rings from breaking in which is why some engines that are “broken” in with synthetics always smoke.

FROM THE RAT

“I suggested he go with low zinc synthetic 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN, that provided 105,875 psi in my testing, which put it in the INCREDIBLE wear protection caregory.”

I have not seen any testing on the specific oil he mentioned, however, I find it highly unlikely that Mobil 1 would have 2 SM rated oils where one provides a whopping 1,000% increase in wear protection for only around .50 cents more per quart . . This simply boggles my mind.

Mobil 1 5w-30 . . API rating SM . . $27.00 . . . .105,875 psi

Mobil 1 0w-40 . . API rating SM . . $24.00 . . . . . 1,540 psi

Mobil Synth S . . .API rating ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6,389 psi

.

.

 
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