Lizard Skin or Dynamat

[mustang7173]

Hello Mister 4x4,

What do you use to process the roof and side sections of the fastback?

mustang7173 :bravo:

Lots of good info! On the mass backed carpet, I was considering going with the one without the backing if I used the raamat. I didn't know if it would be to thick if I used both. What kind of prep on the surfaces does the raamat need? Also on the carpet, what don't you like on the loop vs the cut piled, what is the difference? Sorry for all the questions, I've been trying to research the carpet thing for awhile now trying to decide which one is better. I didn't know they had so many different kinds now. 15 yrs ago when I redid my 73 Mach I don't think they had so many options. Thanks, Ryan

I prefer the cut-pile because it won't unravel a line halfway across the floor if something snags a loop. Not to mention, it's more modern in appearance. Cut-pile is like regular home carpet (well, most carpets that aren't like berber or similar) - the factory 'loop' stuff reminds me of the cheesy indoor/outdoor carpet they use in schools and office buildings. Plus, it matches my cool floor mats.

The RAAMat is only about 1/16" - 3/32" thick... if that - probably less if you put a roller to it or something similar that'll squish it down a bit. I think the factory-style underlay is actually a tad thicker... and then you add the mass-backing of the carpet, and yeah... that would be too thick. Since the RAAMat is both a heat and sound insulator, I just decided to blow-off the underlay pieces. Even so, the underlay pieces only fit in the 'flat' areas, between the surface features of the floor.

So basically, if you went with RAAMat and mass-backed carpet, you'll be fine. As for the underlay pieces as well, again - I don't know since I decided not to use mine.

Prep work is no big deal - just make sure it's clean. If you have paint or something like an epoxy coating (like Rust Bullet or similar), you can put it right down on top of that. I used Rust Bullet Black Shell pretty much everywhere in my car (I just liked it better that plain ol' primer gray).

Those three tools in the picture are all I used to install the RAAMat: Scissors, a good utility knife, and a wall-paper seam roller.

Once again, my biggest problem with installing the molded mass-backed carpet along with the RAAMat was the fact that I'd moved my seat platforms back a few inches for some extra legroom. By doing so, it threw the whole 'molded carpet' thing right out the window - nothing lined up properly after that. The rear footwell molded areas were squished up against the backs of the seat platforms, the fronts didn't fit quite right because the molded areas began ahead of the seat platforms. The heat gun helped a lot with that.

The only real issues I see with the mass-backed stuff is that it will be a little thicker trying to stuff under things like the kick panels, quarter trim panels, and the door sill plates (which, the repop sills are pretty flimsy and will bend easily).

Also - make sure you open up any mounting holes in the RAAMat (or any other insulating material) before you start laying down the carpet, otherwise you'll never find 'em again.

Hello Mister 4x4,

I found your thread to my question. It is the Raamat that you installed.

Thanks

mustang7173

 

[Mister 4x4]

Hello Mister 4x4,

What do you use to process the roof and side sections of the fastback?

mustang7173 :bravo:

*** clipped ***


Hello Mister 4x4,

I found your thread to my question. It is the Raamat that you installed.

Thanks

mustang7173

Yes, I used RAAMat for full coverage of the roof and floor, and inside of the lower quarters, I used 4 2"x12" strips vertically mounted on each side behind the quarter window mounting brackets to help with sheet metal resonance. I also just remembered that I did the same to the doors with 6 of the strips mounted vertically inside of the door skins behind the window regulators. For the upper quarter panels (sail panel area), I used the standard insulation prior to installing the sail panels... - there's really no good way to get full coverage of the stick-on products behind the sail panel areas. I did the same with the headliner (stuck the roof insulation to the RAAMat with 3M spray adhesive, then installed the factory-style insulation and headliner as normal).

The rest of my plan is to completely cover the trunk pan, taillight panel, and inside the trunk lid (the flat portions between the trunk lid's "framework"), and add more strips (6 - 8) to the insides of the quarter panels in the trunk area. The Ensolite (sticky-back foam) will be used on the inside surface of the doors pretty much in-place of the water shields, as well as inside the quarter trim panels. (I have to pull the door panels and quarter trim panels for some adjustments to the window regulators, power window motors, and power locks, before I can call them "done" and install the

The RAAMat does both thermal insulation as well as sound deadening. Obviously, if it's not 100% coverage (like with a spray-on like Lizard Skin) then the thermal insulation qualities are lessened... but having 'some' of it on the sheet metal will drastically cut down resonance and prevent some of the 'buzzing' you hear when people install powerful subs into their cars without any kind of insulation whatsoever.

Sorry - I keep remembering more things the more I think about it.

 

[tony-muscle]

Yes, I used RAAMat for full coverage of the roof and floor, and inside of the lower quarters, I used 4 2"x12" strips vertically mounted on each side behind the quarter window mounting brackets to help with sheet metal resonance. I also just remembered that I did the same to the doors with 6 of the strips mounted vertically inside of the door skins behind the window regulators. For the upper quarter panels (sail panel area), I used the standard insulation prior to installing the sail panels... - there's really no good way to get full coverage of the stick-on products behind the sail panel areas. I did the same with the headliner (stuck the roof insulation to the RAAMat with 3M spray adhesive, then installed the factory-style insulation and headliner as normal).

The rest of my plan is to completely cover the trunk pan, taillight panel, and inside the trunk lid (the flat portions between the trunk lid's "framework"), and add more strips (6 - 8) to the insides of the quarter panels in the trunk area. The Ensolite (sticky-back foam) will be used on the inside surface of the doors pretty much in-place of the water shields, as well as inside the quarter trim panels. (I have to pull the door panels and quarter trim panels for some adjustments to the window regulators, power window motors, and power locks, before I can call them "done" and install the

The RAAMat does both thermal insulation as well as sound deadening. Obviously, if it's not 100% coverage (like with a spray-on like Lizard Skin) then the thermal insulation qualities are lessened... but having 'some' of it on the sheet metal will drastically cut down resonance and prevent some of the 'buzzing' you hear when people install powerful subs into their cars without any kind of insulation whatsoever.

Sorry - I keep remembering more things the more I think about it.

This is excellent information. Thank you. Once I am done with my floors this is my next step.

Question: you said that you decided not to use the carpet underlayment. Is this mainly because your platforms are relocated? I ask because I am also planing on going with the ACC mass backed carpet, and already bought the underlayment. Being the RAAMat so thin, do you think it will make a big difference with the underlayment? My original thought was to add ---mats to cover about 30% of the floor, then add the underlayment, and then the mass backed carpet. The partial covering of the floor with the mats I read was reasonable for sound deadening, but obviously not good for thermal barrier.

 

[Mister 4x4]

My logic was that because the carpet was mass-backed, adding the underlays on top of the RAAMat would be overkill (in thickness). Thinking about it now, it probably would've been OK. I would've had to trim the rear footwell pieces, and the fronts would've just come up a little short - no biggie. The underlay pieces only fit into the 'flatter' parts of the floor, after all (even though they transverse the transmission tunnel - they avoid surface features, like seat platforms, etc.).

I think I was also up against a deadline and was struggling with the molded aspect of the mass-backed carpet not fitting well with my relocated seat platforms... and had a major case of the "forget-its" with regards to the underlay (I'm pretty sure I used a different "F-word" at the time as well ). I also remember I was pretty determined that if I got the carpet laid down and everything happy to be installed, then I would call it good until sometime after things settled down following the deadline.

You should be fine using underlay with the RAAMat and mass-backed carpeting. Again, make sure you punch any holes (for dimmer switch, console, seat belts, seat frames/rails, etc.).

 

[tony-muscle]

Again, make sure you punch any holes (for dimmer switch, console, seat belts, seat frames/rails, etc.

I have been trying to go through this exact process in my head. I figure it should be very difficult to find the location of the console holes,or any small hole, through all those layers. My car's tunnel actually has 2 or 3 set of holes were you can see the console was moved over time. I was thinking to use something like a hanger metal wire as a guide so I can find these holes. Maybe getting the wire through from underneath the car to mark the right location on the underlayment and carpet.

 

[Mister 4x4]

I think I used a scratch awl... or actually, the sharp end of a test light that no longer works because the bulb popped. You'll definitely need something straight, thin, and sharp. Run the 'poker' through after each layer (RAAMat, underlay, carpet, etc.) to ensure everything is still there when it's time to remount things.

Make the holes in the RAAMat around the seat frame mounting points bigger than they need to be - I almost cross-threaded a mounting bolt because a piece of the butyl-backed foil got stuck in the threads while I was putting one of the seats down.

Also, be careful handling the pieces of RAAMat, Dynamat, HVAC tape, et al. - anything that's foil-backed The foil will be razor sharp on the edges. You could easily slice something (or someone) open with it. :shootself:

 

[Bill73Ragtop]

"Also, be careful handling the pieces of RAAMat, Dynamat, HVAC tape, et al. - anything that's foil-backed The foil will be razor sharp on the edges. You could easily slice something (or someone) open with it. "

Both my 69 and 73 will forever have my DNA after installing Dynomat and slicing open a fingertip now and then during the installation.

 

[tony-muscle]

"Also, be careful handling the pieces of RAAMat, Dynamat, HVAC tape, et al. - anything that's foil-backed The foil will be razor sharp on the edges. You could easily slice something (or someone) open with it. "

Both my 69 and 73 will forever have my DNA after installing Dynomat and slicing open a fingertip now and then during the installation.

Good to have a piece of your DNA in the car in case it is stolen....[emoji3]

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

[Mister 4x4]

Funny you should mention that. When I first got mine back in 2010, I took it to the shop and asked my pal Jim what I should start with... he immediately replied, "A tetanus shot."



Oddly enough, after over 5 years of working on it (3.5 of that being majorly engaged in rust repair & replacement, hacking, slashing, cutting, welding, fabricating, etc.), I only have one scar to show for it, after a self-tapping sheet metal screw slipped while I was re-installing the second passenger-side repop quarter panel.

I'm not afraid to bleed for the cause... but I guess I just got lucky this time, and only really bled from the checkbook. rofl

 

[mustang7173]

Eric,

Absolutely Amazing!

mustang7173 :bravo:

Funny you should mention that. When I first got mine back in 2010, I took it to the shop and asked my pal Jim what I should start with... he immediately replied, "A tetanus shot."

Oddly enough, after over 5 years of working on it (3.5 of that being majorly engaged in rust repair & replacement, hacking, slashing, cutting, welding, fabricating, etc.), I only have one scar to show for it, after a self-tapping sheet metal screw slipped while I was re-installing the second passenger-side repop quarter panel.

I'm not afraid to bleed for the cause... but I guess I just got lucky this time, and only really bled from the checkbook. rofl

All,

After spraying the Lizard Skin and letting it dry per specifications, I was wondering, do I need to add anything else. So I emailed Lizard Skin an received this response.

My request for information:

I have a 1973 mustang coupe and I sprayed both Lizard skin products per instructions. I sprayed the whole interior and roof section. My question is, does the Lizard Skin provide enough insulation on the roof to where I do not need to add any more materials? Thank You!

Lizard Skin Response:

David,

The ceramic insulation is all you need on the roof to create a radiant barrier. Provided you applied to a 40 mil thickness minimum. This is the only product you will need. Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Thanks,

Marx Henry

Automotive Specialist

713-465-0304 Office

713-465-0302 Fax

www.lizardskin.com

facebook.com/lizardskininsulation

Look like I do not need to add any more sound deadening insulation.

mustang7173