More Edlebrock questions

[CZ-75]

'73 Convertible 351c 2V

The previous owner put on a NASA hood, but no plenum or any other Ram Air parts.

I know I can get a Ram Air kit for about $550.

My question is: Can I also use an Edelbrock Performer Air Gap (not the RPM Air Gap), or is there a big enough height difference between it and the stock intake manifold? And if I can, what about a 4 barrel carb?

If I can only do one or the other (New intake/Carb versus Ram Air), I'd rather do the intake/Carb. But I'd like to do both if possible, without too much modification to the Ram Air kit.

 

[Tnfastbk]

will work but not without heavily modifying the bottom air filter base

 

[CZ-75]

will work but not without heavily modifying the bottom air filter base

I think I'll do the Intake and Carb, and compare height difference before/after... Then decide if I want to try and alter the Ram Air kit... seems like a lot of effort for what?... a few horsepower?

I'm thinking Edelbrock Performer Air Gap Manifold and their Thunder Series 650CFM carb. If I don't fiddle with teh CAM, and just do the Intake/Carb, by how much do you experts think that will affect power?

 

[Tnfastbk]

will work but not without heavily modifying the bottom air filter base

I think I'll do the Intake and Carb, and compare height difference before/after... Then decide if I want to try and alter the Ram Air kit.

I'm thinking Edelbrock Performer Air Gap Manifold and their Thunder Series 650CFM carb. If I don't fiddle with teh CAM, and just do the Intake/Carb, by how much do you experts think that will affect power?

another member is running the air gap and loves it

 

[Mister 4x4]

Just to 'cheat' a little, you can always go to CompCams site and use their 'CamQuest' utility to get you a 'ballpark' idea of what your mods will do. They have stock replacement cam specs and a whole selection of engine mods that you can bounce against their virtual dynamometer.

If I remember correctly, bigger carb, free-flowing intake, and headers will get you a couple more ponies - but you'll want more. That's where the cam and valve train come into play. You can maximize the 'breatheability' of the engine all you like, but if the cam and valves aren't keeping pathways open during the process anymore than the stock lift and duration, you won't gain much. Think of it as building a 6-lane highway, but only keeping 1 lane on each side open under the overpasses.

Hope that helps.

 

[CZ-75]

Just to 'cheat' a little, you can always go to CompCams site and use their 'CamQuest' utility to get you a 'ballpark' idea of what your mods will do. They have stock replacement cam specs and a whole selection of engine mods that you can bounce against their virtual dynamometer.

If I remember correctly, bigger carb, free-flowing intake, and headers will get you a couple more ponies - but you'll want more. That's where the cam and valve train come into play. You can maximize the 'breatheability' of the engine all you like, but if the cam and valves aren't keeping pathways open during the process anymore than the stock lift and duration, you won't gain much. Think of it as building a 6-lane highway, but only keeping 1 lane on each side open under the overpasses.

Hope that helps.

You know... I've read dozens of posts that go into great detail about Camshafts, and this is the best description I have ever come across. That really explains it well. Lift and duration... I get it now.

Thanks!::beer::

 

[comanchepilot44]

I don't think there are two different air-gap manifolds for the Cleveland. There is the Perfromer RPM but its for 351 w block. Note the thermostat outlet on the manifold. Go with the RPM air-gap and dont look back!

 

[cudak888]

Have you considered mating the Edelbrock intake manifold to a Holley 4150/4160? I'm not sure if the height will be correct, but the original air cleaner should bolt up.

-Kurt

 

[CZ-75]

I don't think there are two different air-gap manifolds for the Cleveland. There is the Perfromer RPM but its for 351 w block. Note the thermostat outlet on the manifold. Go with the RPM air-gap and dont look back!

There is a new "Performer Air Gap" but I can't figure out if it is available for the 351c. I'll need to call them. I'd rather get one for idle-5,500 rather than 1,500-6,500 RPM.

Have you considered mating the Edelbrock intake manifold to a Holley 4150/4160? I'm not sure if the height will be correct, but the original air cleaner should bolt up.

-Kurt

Only beacause I'm looking for this car to be a strong fair weather driver, and I've been reading that Edelbrocks are a little better suited for that purpose as opposed to racing / Higher RPM.

I'm really looking for more low-end torque.

 

[clevelandcoupe]

Guys,

I am currently running the air gap manifold on my 351 cleveland in my 30 Model A and have found that due to not having the exhaust cross over it is very "cold blooded" even in the summer.

Just keep that in mind when making your choice.

Thanks, Jay

 

[CZ-75]

What does "cold blooded" mean? I've heard that the air gaps aren't so great for cold weather.

 

[Mister 4x4]

What does "cold blooded" mean? I've heard that the air gaps aren't so great for cold weather.

Same thing it means for reptiles: slow to warm up and become active. The Air Gap manifolds allow cooler air to flow through the manifold, reducing manifold temperature... which increases performance when the engine is at operating temperature. But the negative effect is by having the cooler air flowing through the manifold, it takes longer for the engine to 'warm up.'

Hope that helps.

 

[Tnfastbk]

What does "cold blooded" mean? I've heard that the air gaps aren't so great for cold weather.

Most of out cars are not daily drivers anyhow, so a little longer warm up should mean very little I would think.

 

[cudak888]

Only beacause I'm looking for this car to be a strong fair weather driver, and I've been reading that Edelbrocks are a little better suited for that purpose as opposed to racing / Higher RPM.

Maybe so, but I've never thought of the 600cfm Holley 4160 as being particularly performance oriented. It's a good all-around carb with punch when you want it - and I've seen them used on smogged 400s by Lincoln enthusiasts with good results.

-Kurt

 

[CZ-75]

Only beacause I'm looking for this car to be a strong fair weather driver, and I've been reading that Edelbrocks are a little better suited for that purpose as opposed to racing / Higher RPM.

Maybe so, but I've never thought of the 600cfm Holley 4160 as being particularly performance oriented. It's a good all-around carb with punch when you want it - and I've seen them used on smogged 400s by Lincoln enthusiasts with good results.

-Kurt

Good to know! I'm not overly partial to either manufacturer.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Only beacause I'm looking for this car to be a strong fair weather driver, and I've been reading that Edelbrocks are a little better suited for that purpose as opposed to racing / Higher RPM.

Maybe so, but I've never thought of the 600cfm Holley 4160 as being particularly performance oriented. It's a good all-around carb with punch when you want it - and I've seen them used on smogged 400s by Lincoln enthusiasts with good results.

-Kurt

I'm partial to the Edelbrocks, mostly because there is only one (1) gasket that will possibly break down over time and leak, and it is at the top of the unit. Holleys have vertically-oriented gaskets on either side of the main body between the bowls - which are at risk for breaking down over time and leaking, potentially causing a fire.

Not to mention, there are exactly 3 settings outside of the carb: Idle Speed, Choke, and 2 Air Mix needle valves - very easy to set up and keep running.

Just my opinion - I know people who prefer Holleys for similar reasons.

 

[sm3570]

I have a 600 cfm Holley. It was easy to set up and when I punch it the wheels break free very easily.

 

[marks73]

I've tuned Autolites to do the same thing. Just need to know what to rub to make the Genie appear! Go for it Roy and Don.

 

[OpiemusRex]

I have the Edelbrock Air Gap (w/Endurashine) and the Edelbrock 1806 650cfm on my 302. I had the 1406 600cfm and it would not work right with my engine, it's made for ones that are not so performance oriented.

I just heard it run this past Monday and the set up is awesome. It is really cold natured and does take a long time to get to operating temperature but when it does it is something to behold.

I'll have video real soon and you can see what I'm talking about. I should have the car back sometime next week.

Forgot to mention, we did have to modify the baseplate for my K&N Filter so that it would fit down over the electric choke on the carb and it does have enough clearance to close the hood, barely.