New 351c Build.

[MeZapU]

This weekend I picked up what I hope will be a good block for my new 351c build. It is an Aussie 351c and has some interesting differences. "D2 E-CA" block casting. Casting date has it as a 1977 and we know in the USA they stopped making Clevelands in 1974. The main caps are different as well. No less beefy but they have a different looking set of numbers and arrows.

This one already has some quality machine work and upgrades. Deburred, o-ringed, .030 over, Aussie crank was standard/standard and the bearings look perfect. Connecting rods have been rebuilt, beams ground and shot peened, I believe Moroso rod bolts as they are not stockers but do not have ARP on them. They do have the stretch gauge alignment dimples. Balanced rotating assy. Has the Moroso oil restrictor mods. Bores look awesome and the rings are perfect. I doubt this engine has seen 500 miles. Tight Rollmaster timing chain that I will be reusing. I put the carbon'd up pistons in my ultrasonic cleaner and they came out like new. Didn't even need to take the rings off. I love that thing. The only downer is the pistons are cast Silv-O-Lites.

I plan on using a std/std 4MAB crank that I have and using a quality aftermarket connecting rod and Ross Piston combo to handle some RPM's.

The heads are at the machine shop. I'm talking with the shop and my Camshaft guy, trying to nail down a valve spring combo.

It will be a slow build but a fun one. I tried to upload more pictures but Photobucket gives you a hard time if you try and do too many per day. I'll update this post as time goes on.

Piston as it came out of the shortblock

One cycle through the ultrasonic cleaner

Two cycles

After a 4th cycle.

 

[mdan575]

So what did it cost ya?

I looked and looked for a few years to find a block that looked like that with no luck. Most were left to rust with no way to tell if they were in good or bad shape. Add that to the fact that the prices were out of control for a crap shoot and I ended up going with a roller 302. Looks like you are gonna be able to build a real nice setup and net some big power on it.

Slow builds are not a problem mine has take over a year now. Best part was it allowed me to find the goodparts I wanted on the cheap when they were on sale to save some money. Mine is almost ready to come together when I get home later this year.

 

[c9zx]

You may want to consider Mahle pistons with the 1mm, 1mm, 2mm ring package. Great parts for the money. http://www.us.mahle.com/media/motorsports/infobox/mms2014appguide.pdf

Chuck

 

[MeZapU]

You may want to consider Mahle pistons with the 1mm, 1mm, 2mm ring package. Great parts for the money. http://www.us.mahle.com/media/motorsports/infobox/mms2014appguide.pdf

Have you personally built any Cleveland engines using that piston?

I was planning on using a Ross piston and a 6.00" rod combo.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

looks like a good purchase. Enjoy

 

[c9zx]

You may want to consider Mahle pistons with the 1mm, 1mm, 2mm ring package. Great parts for the money. http://www.us.mahle.com/media/motorsports/infobox/mms2014appguide.pdf

Have you personally built any Cleveland engines using that piston?

I was planning on using a Ross piston and a 6.00" rod combo.

Yes. My 408C has the Mahle power pack pistons. The 1,1,2 where not yet available. I have a 6.0 rod with the 4.0 crank. If you are using the stock stroke with a 6.0 rod, the power pac pin location would be wrong. I spoke with Ron at Diamond piston about cutting "shelf" pistons to accommodate the Mahle 1,1,2 ring package. He said for $50 per change, up to two changes, he will modify the blank shelf pistons. That may be an option as well. How much RPM are you planning on? Chuck

 

[MeZapU]

It cost me about $350. Hoping to sell the rotating assembly as a matched set to someone to recoup the cost. Whoever buys it will get a great deal.

At least 7k rpm's. Custom SFT camshaft from www.flowtechinduction.com. I will be using the stock stroke. This will not be an all out assault on horsepower. Just a streetable, broad powerband nostalgia type build. I told my cam guy I wanted a modern version of a BOSS 351 camshaft that will be matched well with the 4V quench heads that I ported, a Blue Thunder intake, and the rest of the combo to optimize it all and make a good street car with decent manners.

I have my 85 GT as my 408ci high hp car. I think it has 6.2" rods and SRP -26cc pistons to get it at 10:1. I even installed a smaller camshaft in it to make it more streetable so I would like driving it more. I learned if you tell a cam designer what you want, you will get exactly what you ask for.

I was able to get one more picture to upload. About as good as a stock rod can get.

 

[c9zx]

A fox body with a 408 ought to be a hoot. I agree a custom camshaft is almost always the best solution. The Boss 351 cam was tame by today's standards. I'm sure the grinder will provide a much improved profile. The problem is getting enough lift, with a flat tappet cam, without having too much duration come with it. I'm struggling with that situation now with a Boss 302 engine "street" engine. I may have to go to a roller to get what I want. Same thing with the 408C build. I had to use less lift than I wanted to keep the overlap from getting out of hand. If you are going 7K+ you may want to look at valve train weight on the valve side of the rocker stud especially the intake valve, spring, and retainer. I'm looking at a hollow stem Ferrea intake valve that is 20% lighter and a beehive, or conical, spring and retainer that are lighter and more likely to help keep the valve train stable at high RPMs. One statement on the camshaft website bothered me, "Camshaft specifications will not be released until order is placed." It sounds like a fun build. Keep us posted on the progress. Chuck

 

[MeZapU]

Yes, my fox is quite the handful with the 408. I keep finding the weaker link. I think my traction lock diff smoked the right side clutch pack. Wanting to rebuild the rear axle and install a Team-Z kit to help with the hook. Already ripped out a torque box. But the roads here in FL don't lend themselves to spirited driving so it is not a priority. When I retire from the AF back to PA I'll likely finish the upgrades.

I have a full set of Ferrea Competition Plus valves to go into the heads and am on the hook to order a PAC beehive spring kit. I need to research which rocker studs to buy and may run 3/8" pushrods and guideplates in it.

You gotta think, time and knowledge is money. If someone takes the time to gonkulate all your data and spit you out a camshaft recommendation, then people take those specs and try to match that profile with a off the shelf grind that is as close as they can get. Or even call a company like Comp and feed them that cam info, then save themselves $40 ish. It would piss me off if that was my business. Those who give out the specs are usually in competition with established camshaft gurus. Yes it is a computer program, but they pay good money for that software. Some would rather baffle you with ********(like duration/lift numbers out to the 4th decimal point) than dazzle you with brilliance.

 

[c9zx]

It sounds like you have it covered. I agree cam grinders are in a tough spot. It is just that buying the unknown would bother me. However, at some point, you have to trust someone and have faith in their abilities. Keep us posted. Chuck

 

[JamesS]

Interesting that it's got the '351' crank - I would have thought that was from 79 or later. What's the engine number on the block near the distributor hole?

 

[MeZapU]

I almost couldn't see those numbers under the paint. Numbers were above the fuel pump hole. I have no idea on how to decipher them.

JG23UL

81728K


Photobucket still being a pain. I attached them instead.

 

[JamesS]

OK, sorry for the delay. It's a January 1978 block out of an XC series Ford Falcon. Australian cast block essentially the same as a US D2AE block. Same distributor bore etc. it is your usual 2 bolt 1970s Aussie Cleveland. Much stronger and thicker bores than the DOAE blocks. Have fun!

 

[MeZapU]

I don't believe the bores are any thicker than any other year block.

I did receive the valve spring kit in the mail today. PAC beehive kit. Camshaft will take a bit longer. Getting it nitrited.

 

[c9zx]

I don't believe the bores are any thicker than any other year block.

I did receive the valve spring kit in the mail today. PAC beehive kit. Camshaft will take a bit longer. Getting it nitrited.

MZU, I'm considering going to PAC beehives on the B2. Do you have any specs on installed height and seat and open pressures? As near as I can tell they should take about 40 grams off the valve and increase stability at high RPM. Chuck

 

[barnett468]

MZU, I'm considering going to PAC beehives on the B2. Do you have any specs on installed height and seat and open pressures? As near as I can tell they should take about 40 grams off the valve and increase stability at high RPM. Chuck

if you are looking to reduce valve train weight you can also get intake valves that are dished . . also undercut stems will not only reduce weight they will increase flow . . titanium retainers will also reduce weight and are actually fairly cheap at around 140.00 from herbert racing.

 

[MeZapU]

MZU, I'm considering going to PAC beehives on the B2. Do you have any specs on installed height and seat and open pressures? As near as I can tell they should take about 40 grams off the valve and increase stability at high RPM. Chuck

Here is the spring set from the place where I get my camshafts.

http://www.flowtechinduction.com/pac-beehive-valve-spring-kit-bb2/

For the cam that I'm getting he recommended this spring set. I needed different spring seats with a .625" guide diameter as per my machinist, but it was the same price. Just had to ask and wait a week. Handling the big intake valves is a difficult task when the cam profile gets radical. I could have gone double/triple springs with titanium retainers, but these are easier on the valvetrain having less pressure required to do the same thing and run cooler.

 

[MeZapU]

I received my Wydendorf lifter bushing kit yesterday.

http://www.wydendorfmachine.com/kitb.html?kitid=2

Took about 2:15 to ream out all 16 lifter bushing holes. A real workout for my drill and arms. I went through a whole big can of WD-40 during the process. It's not complicated. Just slow going. Many stops to lubricate and clean the reamer during the process of doing each lifter bore. I have much cleaning to do before driving in and reaming the bronze lifter bushings. Probably next weekend as I need to hang Christmas lights tomorrow.

 

[barnett468]

I could have gone double/triple springs with titanium retainers, but these are easier on the valvetrain having less pressure required to do the same thing and run cooler.

the titanium retainers and lite weight valves also increase horsepower because they allow more rpm.

At least 7k rpm's.

for high perf apps you can get the lifter bores squared up . . they are often off a bit.

.

OK, sorry for the delay. It's a January 1978 block out of an XC series Ford Falcon. Australian cast block essentially the same as a US D2AE block. Same distributor bore etc. it is your usual 2 bolt 1970s Aussie Cleveland. Much stronger and thicker bores than the DOAE blocks. Have fun!

The date code on a US made block would be the following:

7 = 1977

E = May

23 = 23td day of the month.

How does it end up being a january 1978 block using your date code system over there?