paint problem

jtltoy

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Does anybody make the original Grabber Lime paint for the 1971 Mach I and the flat black paint for the hood? My car came with the non shiny flat black and I would like to keep it that way.

 
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Kit Sullivan

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"Does anyone still make this color paint" has always struck me as an odd question. Whatever the color is, it has a code. Any paint manufacturer simply looks up the code and it tells them what combination of pigments and toners to mix together to get that color. Any Ford color from the 50s and up can easily be mixed by any automotive paint supplier.

The only exceptions are two-tone and limited production/fleet colors that don't have codes listed on the vehicle or in paint guides. Those can be difficult to match exactly, since its a guessing game sometimes.

My 76 Stsrsky & Hutch Torino is factory code 2B ( bright red), but Ford never put a code on them for the white stripe. Most feel it was probably thier Colonial White, but there is no irrefutable proof of that.

Grabber Lime can be mixed by any competent paint mixer, and the matte black is easy to mix...although the textured paint (69-70 style) is hard to get these days

 

jtltoy

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I guess what I am saying is, I want to make sure that the color is correct and not a different shade of that color. I see a few people that used the Mopar lime, but it just isn't the same.

Now you say the matte black, is that the flat black that has a smooth and has slight shine to it? My car (1971) came with, I guess the textured paint and can't this be matched?

 
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Kit Sullivan

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If you mix the paint according to the color code from Ford, it will be an exact match for when the original paint was new. Now different types of paint sometimes have different "personality" once applied to the car. Grabber Lime in single-stage enamel (the factory paint in 71-73) may take on a different "feel" visually than a modern 2-stage eurathane base-coat/ clear-coat system of today would. Unless you are going for an award-winning concours 1000-point restoration, I don't think there is any valid reason to use an old-style single-stage enamel. The modern stuff is immensly more durable and fade resistant, and just looks great for a longer time.

The matte black is just black paint with 50% flattening agent mixed in.

71-73 did not use any textured paint on the hood or rear spoiler like in 69, so that is no problem.

 
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mweeps

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"Does anyone still make this color paint" has always struck me as an odd question. Whatever the color is, it has a code. Any paint manufacturer simply looks up the code and it tells them what combination of pigments and toners to mix together to get that color. Any Ford color from the 50s and up can easily be mixed by any automotive paint supplier.

The only exceptions are two-tone and limited production/fleet colors that don't have codes listed on the vehicle or in paint guides. Those can be difficult to match exactly, since its a guessing game sometimes.

My 76 Stsrsky & Hutch Torino is factory code 2B ( bright red), but Ford never put a code on them for the white stripe. Most feel it was probably thier Colonial White, but there is no irrefutable proof of that.

Grabber Lime can be mixed by any competent paint mixer, and the matte black is easy to mix...although the textured paint (69-70 style) is hard to get these days
You have any pics of the Starsky and Hutch we have a factory one as well. I remember the day we brought it home in 1976. I drove it to college.

 

Austin Vert

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Hi jtl,

The only real accurate way to get your color is to try and find a donor car with the original paint still on the car in good condition, and then 'color eye match' that color. See my comments in this thread.(Austin Vert) It should help to explain what i mean.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-so-is-this-gold-glow-help-me-settle-this-once-and-for-all

Regards black hood paint - Here's what i ended up doing. Using two pak black is the most durable paint to go for. However, i decided to shoot my hood with a very good quality premixed satin black Acrylic Lacquer. The main reason why is because when you shoot in 2 pak satin or matt black, you really can't afford to get any contamination in the final finish. It will stand out and show.The trouble is that you can't sand,cut or polish out the nibs to remove them without ruining the low gloss finish. Refinishing the black again is the obvious answer, but more than likely you'll get more contamination in the finish again and you're back to square one again.

By using Acrylic Lacquer, you can sand and go on the fly as you're applying the paint, and mostly get around this problem. I was very happy with the finished look of my hood off the gun.That's something to think about.Anymore questions about that or gloss levels etc, let me know.

Regards,

Greg:) (Pro Spraypainter)

 
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Kit Sullivan

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Austin,

I am a little confused by your assertion that the only way to get an accurate color-match is to find an original "gold glow" car to try and manually mix and match the paint.

Why csn't you just get the mix-codes for the paint and have it mixed according to its original formula? This is the most accurate method as far as I know of.

Do you feel that the factory codes will not give an accurate color?

 

caspianwendell

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Austin,

I am a little confused by your assertion that the only way to get an accurate color-match is to find an original "gold glow" car to try and manually mix and match the paint.

Why csn't you just get the mix-codes for the paint and have it mixed according to its original formula? This is the most accurate method as far as I know of.

Do you feel that the factory codes will not give an accurate color?
What he means is when the car was painted new in the factory, the color could vary by batch. You could take your code to 10 different mixers and get 10 different shades, so in order to get an exact match of the original, it would need to be "eye" matched

 
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Kit Sullivan

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I am going to respectfully disagree with you. The paint as mixed from the factory is definitely "batched" before any car is painted. This ensures that many, many vehicles are all painted from the same huge homogenized batch, making them all exactly the same.

The production of the paint mixing for factory paint is extremely accurate so that the paint can be effectively matched by a bodyshop repairing a typical fender-bender. If it couldn't be matched that way, what would be the point of having mixing codes in the first place?

There is of course the issue of trying to panel-match to faded, aged paint and that is where a painter with a good color-matching skill comes in.

But...if you are doing a complete repaint of the entire car, why in the world would you want to go to the trouble to try to color-match your paint to another original, faded vehicle?

Just mix your new paint according to the code and you will nail it.

It is true that getting your paint from different sources can lead to cans of paint tha tare all tbe "same color", yet will vary just enough to notice by eye. That is why any reasonably experienced painter will ALWAYS batch all the paint together before painting anything.

 

midlife

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The original paint manufacturer is no longer in business (Ditzler), but other manufacturers have duplicated the colors according to the codes. The duplications are close, but not entirely exact, particularly when going from Acrylic Enamel (in the days) to two stage base/clear. I agree that today's computer readings of an actual painted part that has not seen fading is the better way to match the existing color code with today's paints than going by codes.

 

Austin Vert

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I am going to respectfully disagree with you. The paint as mixed from the factory is definitely "batched" before any car is painted. This ensures that many, many vehicles are all painted from the same huge homogenized batch, making them all exactly the same.

The production of the paint mixing for factory paint is extremely accurate so that the paint can be effectively matched by a bodyshop repairing a typical fender-bender. If it couldn't be matched that way, what would be the point of having mixing codes in the first place?

There is of course the issue of trying to panel-match to faded, aged paint and that is where a painter with a good color-matching skill comes in.

But...if you are doing a complete repaint of the entire car, why in the world would you want to go to the trouble to try to color-match your paint to another original, faded vehicle?

Just mix your new paint according to the code and you will nail it.

It is true that getting your paint from different sources can lead to cans of paint tha tare all tbe "same color", yet will vary just enough to notice by eye. That is why any reasonably experienced painter will ALWAYS batch all the paint together before painting anything.
Hi Kit,

Thank you for your response. I'll try and explain it as best i can based on my own experience and what i've known over the last 37 years.

Let's say Ford does a production run on a particular color, for a particular car model. That color run may last one year, or two. That doesn't matter. Whilst using that color, Ford will end up ordering and use thousands of gallons from the paint company, and would be surplied in batch quantities as needed. So yes, logically you would think that the paint company when mixing and surplying all that paint, would have the color recipie down to a fine art for accuracy and color consistancy.

The reality is however, that you will get subtle variations from batch to batch. Over my career, i have continually experienced this many times and to this day, am still getting this problem. There can be differant reasons for this. Pigmentation settleing and agitation issues can be one for example. For instance, i am using Glasurit Paints at the moment, and there is a solid color called Candy White. When us spraypainters go to make up that color on the computer, in the sprayshop, based on a factory color code, you can choose from around eight differanrt shades or color variations of that color, based on the factory code. Bare in mind, this is a new car and new color. As well,nine times out of ten, the painter will have to spray out the made up color on a test card, and check to see what it's like to the rest of the car. He will then have to add extra tinters to play around with and change that color and accurately match the color to what's on the car anyway. We have around forty or so differant tinters to change colors to match with.That's where the great skill comes into play.It's knowing what tinters to use and how much tinter to use to change any color. In my trade we were taught to make up a color from scratch with no code or formula as a guide to go by.

So your factory colors will most definately vary. When you look at it that way, there may have been a paint starter formula or recipie for Gold Glow for example, but there would be many slight variations of that color running around out there in reality. (Will the real Gold Glow please stand up!):p That also holds true for any of the Ford Mustang colors on offer for '71-'73 as well.

When it comes to the refinish industry, finding old paint Codes is not an issue. Paint formulas are harder to find, and are mostly not released to the public as public information.(A paint formula is a list of differant tinters that when mixed and combined together, go to make up any particular color). Formulas are left to the paint companies to keep upgrading over the years. Sometimes they do this and sometimes they don't upgrade. Paint companies and paint chemists are forever changing the chemistry of paint for the refinish trade over the years, and as new technology comes on line, some old formulas get left behind and don't get added to the new types of paints. New tech tinters are differant from the old paints can be an issue for color variations as well.Going from old mono single stage enamels used in the Seventies to modern clear over basecoat 2pak enamels can change colors and give variations as well.

Having said that, i've ordered an used old classic car colors based on so called 'original' formulas and have found them sometimes not really accurate when sprayed out on a test card and then checked against the original color which is in good condition.

Lastly, as i have said, your key objective for best original factory match is to find a donor car with the original factory paint work still on the car, and in as best condition that it can be. I know that is a hard ask, but sometimes it can be done. So in reality, when you look at the whole big picture, there is no such thing as the dead accurate holy grail of any color, as an ultimate yardstick. No matter which way you go, there will always be variations of any color for any car. So when a customer buys auto paint across the counter and he wants to buy say Gold Glow for example, he will be sold Gold Glow paint, spray the car with that color and be satisfied with that color. Most people either don't care or are not aware of the accuracy of what they have ended up with.As other forum members have said in the past; It sure looks like Gold Glow to me!

But it is understood that if you were doing a touch up or partial repair somewhere on your car, you would have to match or throw your purchased color to match and blend in with what's on your car already. No question there.

Okeedokee? Hope that helps,

Greg:)

 
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caspianwendell

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I am going to respectfully disagree with you. The paint as mixed from the factory is definitely "batched" before any car is painted. This ensures that many, many vehicles are all painted from the same huge homogenized batch, making them all exactly the same.

The production of the paint mixing for factory paint is extremely accurate so that the paint can be effectively matched by a bodyshop repairing a typical fender-bender. If it couldn't be matched that way, what would be the point of having mixing codes in the first place?

There is of course the issue of trying to panel-match to faded, aged paint and that is where a painter with a good color-matching skill comes in.

But...if you are doing a complete repaint of the entire car, why in the world would you want to go to the trouble to try to color-match your paint to another original, faded vehicle?

Just mix your new paint according to the code and you will nail it.

It is true that getting your paint from different sources can lead to cans of paint tha tare all tbe "same color", yet will vary just enough to notice by eye. That is why any reasonably experienced painter will ALWAYS batch all the paint together before painting anything.
They didn't mix paint for 200,000 cars all at once. paint, application technique, etc. have changed since the 70's and I have been down the "code color don't match the car" road many times. You also have to keep in mind in the old days paint was not mixed by computer controlled robot. Even today on new cars the color does not match the codes which is why blending is necessary.

 
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jtltoy

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I'm learning a lot with all of the responses to my question. Thank you. Fortunately, I have a hood that has been in storage for many years (out of the sun). I'm thinking I can get a good read from that to come up with what I want.

One other question. Does it make a difference what color the primer is? Will using a gray primer lighten up the color? From what I can see, Ford used the rust colored primer under the paint.

 
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Kit Sullivan

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You are right, they certainly did not mix a batch of paint and then spray 200,000 cars. Especially since there were never 200,000 cars of a single color in a single year from a single plant.

I have been painting cars for well over 30 years and have never run into a situation where the paint code formula does not turn out the correct color paint. It may not perfectly match a faded and weathered car, but it certainly matches the fresh undamaged paint.

It sounds as if you are suggesting that modern computer-controlled mixing is far more accurate than the methkds used in the sixties and seventies. I disagree: they were very acchrate with thier stone-age methods back then.

 

midlife

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Kit:

If one is taking a car back to stock conditions and one knows the paint code, I'll agree that most manufacturer's formulas are going to be very close. Some manufacturer paint lines don't cross from 60/70 era codes. Sometimes, however, a car has a special paint (i.e. no code), or someone wants a color from another car line/manufacturer, wants to match the under belly "slop" color, or wants to match a faded interior panel color. In these cases, a computerized scan followed up with a bit of final experimentation can match colors very closely.

There's a place for both methods; it all depends upon what one is trying to achieve.

 
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