Seeking new Rag joint information

[[email protected]]

I know! I know, another rag joint question. Moved my car and had it let go yesterday. Pulled today. See photo for condition. I have read the rag joint threads. The Question is; What is the best product out now a days to replace this joint. I have a 73 coupe 351C 2v FMX PS PB. I want to use the Original parts, but safety is #1. Poly vs classic products? Any feed back welcome. Thanks. :blush:

 

[droptop73]

I'd go with a good quality OEM replacement. Hey the old one lasted for 40 years and how many miles!

Check with Don @ OMS.

 

[wwhite72]

Yeah, unless you auto-x and ride on 17" michelins with a very stiff suspension and a manual steering its not likely you'd feel much difference with a harder material joint. Then again if you replaced every bushing with urathane and like rock hard steering feedback then you might feel a difference. But anything new will be better than what broke! Inhad a urathane trans mount pad and switched back to rubber because of the vibrations. My rear seat ashtray was crazy.

 

[jeremycfr]

Just got mine from Ohio Mustang.

 

[[email protected]]

Droptop my Miles noted on speedo are 245,000. But speedo was broke for a few years. So, I am sure It's more like 500,000. No I do not want a hard ride. I want my ride to be smooth, secure not stiff. What good OEMs are out on the market? I did see one NOS on eBay. Numbers were D5AZ-3A525-D. Will that fit my car? I am not real good at intrachanging parts with other years. What do you think?

 

[wwhite72]

Don would know the correct one for your car

 

[will e]

My FSJ (full size jeep) came with a rag joint as well. A popular conversion it to switch it to a u-joint setup:

http://www.bjsoffroad.com/ProdInfo.asp?pid=466&cid=13

Is there nothinng similar for our cars? It really helped with the feel on my jeep.

 

[OMS]

Kat, this is the newest one - very nice complete part

Out of stock again - more on order

Don

Item #C7OZ-3A525-ORG

67-73 STEERING SHAFT COUPLER, ORIGINAL STYLE

Original style rag joint. Price: $39.95

 

[Mister 4x4]

Yeah - mine did the same thing shortly after I got it to the shop.

Question for Don: The replacement kit I picked up from Advance Auto Parts did not have the pins and retainer (the safety feature to aid controlling the vehicle if the rag joint itself fails that I've seen on so many others) - was that a '73 feature? Or did all of our model years come that way?

I know when the original RJ on mine failed and that was it - no pins or retainer plate to prevent the steering wheel from just spinning in the column.

Also, is that something that can be retrofitted without too much hassle?

 

[OMS]

Yeah - mine did the same thing shortly after I got it to the shop.

Question for Don: The replacement kit I picked up from Advance Auto Parts did not have the pins and retainer (the safety feature to aid controlling the vehicle if the rag joint itself fails that I've seen on so many others) - was that a '73 feature? Or did all of our model years come that way?

I know when the original RJ on mine failed and that was it - no pins or retainer plate to prevent the steering wheel from just spinning in the column.

Also, is that something that can be retrofitted without too much hassle?

You got a tilt column - did you get the coupler

Tilt units had a special coupler

All I have seen had 2 bolts 2 pins -

They all spin free when broken it was the 70's

safety - schamfety - safety was so overrated :dodgy:

 

[Mister 4x4]

Yeah - mine did the same thing shortly after I got it to the shop.

Question for Don: The replacement kit I picked up from Advance Auto Parts did not have the pins and retainer (the safety feature to aid controlling the vehicle if the rag joint itself fails that I've seen on so many others) - was that a '73 feature? Or did all of our model years come that way?

I know when the original RJ on mine failed and that was it - no pins or retainer plate to prevent the steering wheel from just spinning in the column.

Also, is that something that can be retrofitted without too much hassle?

You got a tilt column - did you get the coupler

Tilt units had a special coupler

All I have seen had 2 bolts 2 pins -

They all spin free when broken it was the 70's

safety - schamfety - safety was so overrated :dodgy:

I'll hafta check - I did get one with the 'new' column, but oddly enough, my car also came with tilt and had no special coupler. I went ahead and just installed the kit I picked up from Advance because I wasn't sure if I wanted to trust the one that came with the column, all things considered.

I might see if there's any way to 'rebuild' the coupler with the new rag joint itself - first glance looked like it wasn't going to be an easy venture though.

Thanks!

 

[Totalled]

In the parts stores, they used to sell just the rag part of the joint in the "Help" section. So, at least in theory, you could take the pins/studs out of your old joint and just replace the rag portion.

This is how your '73s original looked as one piece:

 

[72HCODE]

should be noted the reason the rag joint broke was because the steering column was adjusted at some point incorrectly.

This is a big thing: basically the rag joint rubber doughnut is just a vibration isolator and it is not suppose to carry the full load of the steering shaft down to the steering box.

those studs are important to the function of the rag joint they fit into finger slots and the entire system forms a U-joint.

What happens is at some point in the past somebody re-adjusted the steering column height, they pulled the column up to give more leg room. when they did that they loosened the 4 top nuts under the dashboard, but they didn't know about the lower band clamp that is on the firewall. The lower clamp holds the base of the column but it also holds the lower telescopic part of the steering column with the rag joint yoke. in addition to the clamp 40+ years of rust has usually frozen the telescopic part of the rag joint in place and you have to manually beat the hell out of it to lower the yoke on the column to get the ragjoint correct.

so you get a situation where the Rag joint is pulled back and the pins float in the air. somebody comes along later and assumes that is how it is suppose to be and they just replace the rubber doughnut and all is well because of power steering.

the power steering assist drives the steering box and there is very little effort going down the steering column through the rag joint into the steering box. meanwhile you have a ticking time bomb for loss of steering control.

one day the power steering starts to go a little bit and now when you turn left or right more and more pressure is going through the incorrectly set rag joint. the rubber degrades you hit a pot hole and the rubber doughnut rips, the next time you make a left or right turn half way into the turn suddenly the rubber lets go totally and you have a boat without a rudder.

when you install the new rag joint you must make sure you have the correct hardware and you must push the lower part of the steering column so the rag joint sits flat between the lower steering box yoke and the upper steering column yoke with the stud hardware correctly matching the finger holes diameter (that is why they give you a few different diameters of studs with the hardware) the fingers from the top will then match into the steering box yoke and they will stay in contact 360 degrees the rubber doughnut just serves to keep the studs centered in the finger holes to absorb impacts through the steering column. the rubber should never support the full load of the steering wheel alone. the Fingers are the physical connection to the steering box from the column.

many people rip the rubber doughnut during restoration when they constantly move the car around without a engine. then later they just swap in a new doughnut and think age was the problem, nope that is an indication you have a major problem with the rag joint assembly and you need to bang the hell out of the lower column and lower the yoke down into the steering box. a correctly setup rag joint will function 100% without the rubber isolator it will bang like hell and send all vibration up to the steering wheel but if the lower band clamp isn't broken it will hold the telescopic part of the column and you can drive the car as normal.

so remember if you rip a rag joint, DO not just replace the doughnut inspect the studs that go into the fingers and make sure they are meshing correctly or something has not broken off or fell off or somebody screwed up bad before you got the car.

i can post photos again of what to look for i had them until the photo account i had got full and i had to delete them for space.

 

[OMS]

Brake fluid dripping on the rubber doesn't help. -

 

[72HCODE]

no it doesn't; Neither does the engine heat from the exhaust manifolds or headers.

here are some screen caps i found at work showing the problem i will get better pics later

this rag joint is wrong and dangerous, it is a little hard to see but the rubber is deformed and pulled into a U shape the studs are not making contact with the yoke either, basically the joint is 100% supported by the rubber doughnut this is 100% incorrect.



what cased this was somebody wanted more legroom and they pulled the upper column up inside the car with out releasing the lower clamp the wheel was pulled up 2-3" the lower yoke was also frozen with rust. so the entire column pulled back away from the steering box, that pulled the studs out of the capture fingers and now the entire joint is supported by the rubber isolator.

same car same joint after repair



the rubber doughnut is now flat between the upper and lower yoke. the studs go through the yoke correctly and make physical contact between the steering box and steering column.

should the rubber isolator be removed the steering would still be 100% connected to the box via the 2 studs. in order to make this repair i had to hammer out the lower part of the steering column about 2" getting the yokes to sit correctly and the studs to mesh correctly. the studs are just poking pass the upper yoke on both sides. one stud is smaller then the other in diameter making a sort of key for the steering column to slip into.

i had to pull the steering column in and out a few times to hammer the yoke out, then recheck fitment.

i found the problem because when i was working on my front end without the engine running i had to turn the steering wheel left and right and i snapped my doughnut, knowing that could not be right, supporting the entire steering system on a piece of rubber i began to investigate and discovered the real problem. I warned a few people at car shows about it, you spot it all the time its a easy to overlook mistake.

 

[marks73]

Kat, this is the newest one - very nice complete part

Out of stock again - more on order

Don

Item #C7OZ-3A525-ORG

67-73 STEERING SHAFT COUPLER, ORIGINAL STYLE

Original style rag joint. Price: $39.95

Got mine installed from ya and it looks great!

 

[[email protected]]

72HCODE, thank you for the information. It has helped me understand the joint. The steering column is loose. That plus the years = snapped. I have ordered a new one from Don. They are out of stock at the moment, but that's ok. If someone can post a correct installed close up photo, it would help me keep a better visual record for later when I am installing the part. Thanks for the feed back. Will post a photo of done deal down the road.

 

[72HCODE]

here you go.

http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/72hcode/library/steering?sort=3&page=1

 

[[email protected]]

Thank you. 1 Picture can answer my many questions. Your photos have done the trick.