Total Control & Street or Track & Global West Strut Rod & Lower Control Arms

[Total Control Products]

Just checking in. How are the TCP LCA and STRD working out for you?

 

[mustang7173]

Hello Carl,

I have not had the opportunity to drive the mustang due to body man still working on the body. Qcode351mach has provided real world driving experience with his complete front end setup. I look forward to see how my 1973 mustang will drive with the setup. I hope to report back soon with the driving assessment.

mustang7173

 

[cazsper]

Hello cazsper,

Good to hear. According to Total Control Products, when the TCP strut rod are properly instructed, the road feedback is greatly reduced. Can you tell us how much, if any, do you feel any road feedback or noise?

Thank You for your response.

mustang7173

To be honest, the car is a bit noisy. However, I went from a factory stock suspension to my upgraded suspension and a 393w (232/240 cam) with no sound deadening. To be honest, I really don't hear much over the engine.. On my '73 Mach-1, I do plan to use everything from TC.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

http://www.rosehillperformanceparts.com/Products_Page.htm#Adjustable%20Strut%20Rods

Any thoughts on these?

 

[4mm]

kool. Report back when you're on the road please.

 

[Total Control Products]

NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness) are usually lumped together but Harshness really should be separated from the first two. N&V are measurable, whereas harshness is largely subjective. It's also the one that is most easily modified. Something as simple as adjusting shock valving by turning a knob on a shock base or changing a spring rate will have a major effect on vehicle enjoyment. That's why we offer single, double, and four-way adjustable shocks on top of factory valved SS options.

I like my burger medium-rare, but others may like them well done. That's why you need the adjustability.

Noise and Vibration are a different animal and there are many contributing factors. The factory components will always be the most quiet as the pivot points are isolated using thick rubber bushings. The trade-off is that the rubber flexes and causes unpredictable handling and creates a bump-steer condition. On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have components that use rod-ends in the lower control arm and strut rod. The trouble with a rod-end is that they have zero compliance and transfer a lot more energy from the ground into the chassis of the car. Also, the strut rod length is compromised because the mount isn't in the stock position. That's what we did originally, and what many other companies have copied since then.

In the end, our systems are designed for high performance, not luxury. They will never be as quiet as the stock stuff, but they can and do provide far more performance. You can read all about how specific parts are constructed in their data sheets in the TCP Tech Center - Click Here.

 

[mustang7173]

All,

Finally get to update this thread. On the way to get tires and alignment, the TCP struts just rattles the whole car with I ran over some road imperfections. The next issue, is the Alignment tech,trying to adjust the caster, screwed out the strut adjustments to the point where it came a part. We had to remove the strut to get is back to together.He could not get the caster specs that were listed on the TCP strut instructions.

setup:

Opentracker Upper control arms

TCP Lower Control Arms

TCP strut rods.

It was recommended to get the TCP upper controls arms. Whoa! $795! Now, I do understand that the lower section parts are high performance where the upper is factory design. Please read the TCP Tech Guy post just above.

Mustang Steve Forum

http://fyi.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=2935

Since I am not going for the TCP Upper control arms, I am looking to pull the TCP parts and go back to factory style, slightly modified Lower Controls,(Open Tracker) and factory strut rods with good bushings.

mustang7173.

 

[Bentworker]

I think your alignment tech might be in need of replacement.

To get positive caster (what you want) the strut rods must be shortened not lengthened, pulling the bottom of the spindle towards the front of the car. If the alignment tech lengthenend them enough for them to fall out there was a gross conceptual error somewhere.

I actually had to cut about .180" off my TCP strut rods to get me up to +4 degrees caster (so I had a little adjustment left over), and I am in the same boat running non adjustable upper control arms. I also had to run the outmost lower control arm pivot plate to get any negative camber

Try taking it to someone else for an alignment before you toss the baby out with the bath water.

 

[mustang7173]

I think your alignment tech might be in need of replacement.

To get positive caster (what you want) the strut rods must be shortened not lengthened, pulling the bottom of the spindle towards the front of the car. If the alignment tech lengthenend them enough for them to fall out there was a gross conceptual error somewhere.

I actually had to cut about .180" off my TCP strut rods to get me up to +4 degrees caster (so I had a little adjustment left over), and I am in the same boat running non adjustable upper control arms. I also had to run the outmost lower control arm pivot plate to get any negative camber

Try taking it to someone else for an alignment before you toss the baby out with the bath water.

Hello Bentworker,

Thanks for the response! I will look into another alignment shop first. Do you get a lot feed back on the struts from road imperfections?

Mustang7173

 

[Bentworker]

I am at least two years from being able to drive my rig, so I have no idea how it will actually ride. Where are you getting the feedback? The steering wheel?

 

[mustang7173]

I am at least two years from being able to drive my rig, so I have no idea how it will actually ride.   Where are you getting the feedback?  The steering wheel?

Bentworker,

It Just rattles the whole front end of the car along with the dash. I did ask for information on the hard mounted strut rods and I did not get much feed back. I need to get the air cleaner and some seat belts before the full road test. I will update this thread once I have drive the mustang.

mustang7173

 

[mustang7173]

All,

I may go back to the original strut rods. Has anybody used these strut rod bushings?

Global West SRB-5 strut rod Bushings

http://www.globalwest.net/srb-5.html

mustang7173

 

[73pony]

I am wondering if something is a miss here. You should not be getting that much feedback from the TCP Strut rods. The solid mount with spherical joints should allow "plenty" of movement that you should not be shaking the car to pieces, although it will be a slightly harsher ride, but not to the point you are describing. THE Global West units above look exactly like the Moog ones I purchased for a lot less money.

 

[mustang7173]

73pony,

So, what points are causing the road imperfections and noise transmissions?





Source: www.mustangandfords.com

Please respond to your thoughts on this subject!

mustang7173

file upload images

 

[73pony]

I have a few additional questions to be able to try to pin point the shaking... Just trying to help you out as you spent a considerable amount of money on this and would hate to see you have to take it back out.

What are you running for front shocks? Age?

What are you running for springs? Age? lowered? Do you have A/C?

Did you re-torque all of the bolts after a shakedown? Everything is tight as it should be?

What did you use for sway bar end links?

The level of shaking you described, IE the entire chassis and dash could point to a loose connection somewhere. Like I did state with the TCP design there will be some amount of additional vibration/harshness transfer to the chassis over a stock set up but again should not be to the extent that the dash is shaking or it feel like the car is going to shake to pieces.

Also, might be a silly question, how bad was the road you were driving on? I live in the Midwest and our roads are generally terrible, especially this time of year during the thaw cycle when the expansion joints on the roads start to close up too much too quickly causing a slight peak at each joint making it like driving on a washboard, not to mention all the pot holes caused by the salt and plow trucks. I am thinking you don't have this issue in NC though.

 

[mustang7173]

Hello 73pony,

That is it 73pony! " Like I did state with the TCP design there will be some amount of additional vibration/harshness transfer to the chassis over a stock set up but again should not be to the extent that the dash is shaking or it feel like the car is going to shake to pieces. "

I may have over stated the dash rattle. It just feels like it rattling with you drive on the road imperfection.

It rides nice and smooth with a good road. The whole front end has been rebuilt, with less the 500 miles. Now, one thing I have is the front springs are the 620 lbs. with one inch lowered. I have always stated to use the factory stated spring rate. This I may need to look into.

There is the trade off with the solid mounted parts. That is why I was looking into the better strut rod bushings for the stock rods to better isolate the noise/vibration.

mustang7173

 

[Bentworker]

You know how a shopping cart wheel can flutter as you push it? That might be part of what is going on if the last alignment shop gave you negative caster instead of positive caster. Curious what it turns out to be. Honestly the stock strut rod bushings will do a much better job of isolating vibration, but they deflect so much that your caster radically changes as you brake and or corner. I know my ride will be a rattle trap when it is done, but it should handle like a go kart.

Peter

 

[73pony]

You know how a shopping cart wheel can flutter as you push it?  That might be part of what is going on if the last alignment shop gave you negative caster instead of positive caster.  Curious what it turns out to be.  Honestly the stock strut rod bushings will do a much better job of isolating vibration, but they deflect so much that your caster radically changes as you brake and or corner.  I know my ride will be a rattle trap when it is done, but it should handle like a go kart.

Peter

That is an interesting thought on the negative caster. That wheel flutter could be exaggerating or amplifying the vibration for sure.

 

[Tyson Blair]

Hello,

I have a 71 mach 1 that has been undergoing a total overhaul of the powertrain and suspension and I recently took it on a test drive for the first time. I did the complete front end coilover varishock conversion along with the power rack and pinion steering, and the leaf spring and panhard rod plus sway bar rear suspension. All total control products hardware. I went with the 500 pound coil springs as the man at tcp suggested. 100% street driven. Big block 429 c6 auto.

My impressions of the end results going from factory ford suspension and steering to total control gear is this;

Factory: stiff and rubbery all at the same time, worst of both worlds. Hated it. Very dissapointing.

TCP upgraded gear: solidly controlled, not harsh, not bouncy, just right. Feel the road but not the bumps.

With varishocks on softest setting. Might try a little stiffer but not much. I preffer stiff springs and relaxed shocks on the street. Incredible improvement, very very pleased.

The steering is much improved also. Gone is the Lincoln / thunderbird

excessively easy one finger steering. Not a numb and over driven

Or over sensitive feel. I was afraid it would be twitchy , but it was not.

I really really like the change. The softer steering is what you might want on a personal luxury type car because it adds to the smooth and easy gliding feel of those cars. It feels out of place on a mustang.

The TCP rack is a better and I would say also a safer steering box. You are simply more in control as you drive.

Rear suspension: The car feels much more under control and planted.

Handles power well when nailing the throttle. Love it. No bounce and not rough.

Is it as good as a modern muscle car like a new mustang or Challenger?

No I would not say that.

Is it better than factory? Yes In a huge way. No question about it.

No comparison. It is superior in every way, there is no draw back or trade off

Except that it is no longer original. To me, if the factory suspension is very poor

And therefore not of any value. I have zero qualms about modifying it because I

Hated how it drove before. I say this about a factory 429 ram air car. Some people

would never consider modifying a cat of this value but it was so

flawed from the factory that it was an easy decision.

I also removed the original iron 429 motor and replaced it with

An all aluminum big block. I am sure the weight savings made

An improvement as well and contributed to the overall dynamic

improvement. I reckon it weighs around what a 351 clevland weighs.

I changed it all at once and the net effect was dramatically improved.

Before it felt like a heavy car but now it does not have that sense of mass

When you are moving along curvy roads.

I just wanted to add that I experienced no vibration or any harshness

I was expecting it to beat me up a little but I'd does not with the softer setting.

I was happily surprised that it really felt like the goldilocks just right feel I was hoping for.

I hope this helps anyone considering this upgrade.

I have no experience with any other companies products

For these years mustangs so I can not compare them.

I can say that I am extremely satisfied with the TCP parts

And of course the way that they were installed is critical.

I did use global west subframe connectors which look

Very nicely made.

 

[Don C]

Are you comparing it to a refurbished factory suspension or to the 46 year old deteriorated, hardened bushing suspension?

Please go to the introduction section and introduce yourself and your car. Be forewarned, we like pictures.