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Installed new clutch with diaphragm style pressure plate - pedal does not come back


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Hi guys,

 

my buddy and I pulled the motor out and in at the last weekend to renew my freeze plugs, flush the cooling system, change the oil pan to 7 qt and some other things including a new clutch and pressure plate.

 

It is a good Sachs system in diaphragm style. The problem is now that the clutch pedal often remains to stick on the floor which isn't very comfortable while driving or starting on the traffic lights... :dodgy:

 

I have a 1973 q-code with 4-speed-manual.

 

So I have read a few posts like these

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-4-speed-clutch-spring-question?highlight=clutch+spring

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-boss-clutch-return-spring

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-clutch-pedal-assist-spring

 

but they all do not come to a conclusion.

 

What should I do now?

 

It seems that I perhaps also have not a second clutch pedal assist spring that mounts to the side of the pedal box (of which I heard in a thread) if there ever was one on mine. I have only the one at the release bearing and the big one behind the tach. Is the perhaps missing spring relevant for release the pedal?

 

My buddy and I are considering of a additional strong spring behind the tach at the moment which would assist the one which is already there. But some people are saying with a diaphragm style clutch you have to remove the big spring behind the tach "only".

 

So what do you think of or what have you guys done after installing a diaphragm style clutch and coming through this?

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :angel:

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I run a diaphragm clutch with no assist spring, the diaphragm usually has a softer pedal. Usually the only spring I use with a diaphragm clutch is to keep the throw out bearing from riding on the fingers. Diaphragm pressure plates can over center if there is too much travel.

[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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Hi Droptop73,

 

thank you for your Answer!

 

So you have only the spring directly at the release bearing arm to keep it back from the fingers after changing a gear?

 

With the assist spring you mean the big spring behind the tach in the dash? Did you remove it because the diaphragm style does not need it?

 

What do you mean with over center the pressure plate?

 

Sorry for my few questions but I am new on that clutch system...

 

Tim

 

 

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Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :angel:

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Tim-

 

The big assist spring under the dash was intended by Ford to help the driver in disengaging the clutch with the old-school Long style pressure plates. With the newer diaphragm pressure plate, there is now too much assist as you have found (assuming that I've read your post correctly).

 

The last one of these that I did I used a 5.0L HO diaphragm clutch setup and I removed the assist spring and all was fine...

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I am using a retrofit clutch pedal on a conversion, I never had an assist spring.

[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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The assist spring can be removed with the diaphragm clutch-but please be careful it is a beefy part and it can take out an eye or give you one hell of a wallop if it is not respected

 

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/transmission-articles/481163-ball-bearing-clutch-pedal-support.html

 

read down through the third post for removal trick that might be helpful

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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Great, guys, thank you! I really appreciate your help!!!

 

Tim-

 

The big assist spring under the dash was intended by Ford to help the driver in disengaging the clutch with the old-school Long style pressure plates. With the newer diaphragm pressure plate, there is now too much assist as you have found (assuming that I've read your post correctly).

 

The last one of these that I did I used a 5.0L HO diaphragm clutch setup and I removed the assist spring and all was fine...

 

Hi Mjlan,

 

yes, you've read it correctly, that's exactly my issue. So I have understood the clutch system now and know what to do ;)

 

I am using a retrofit clutch pedal on a conversion, I never had an assist spring.

 

Ok, thank you ;)

 

The assist spring can be removed with the diaphragm clutch-but please be careful it is a beefy part and it can take out an eye or give you one hell of a wallop if it is not respected

 

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/transmission-articles/481163-ball-bearing-clutch-pedal-support.html

 

read down through the third post for removal trick that might be helpful

 

Thanks, Jeff! That's a very good tip and now it seems to be an easy thing :)

 

You, guys, on the 7173MUSTANGS.com are the best!!!

 

Made my day :banana:

 

Tim

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :angel:

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let us know if that works for you. I run a long style clutch and still need my assist spring at the moment.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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Usually the over-the-top assist spring stops working with a diaphragm clutch at high RPM, not at idle or with the engine off. Nevertheless, try removing the assist spring and see what happens. I agree you do need a small spring to keep the throw-out bearing off of the clutch disk/pressure plate fingers when the pedal is not engaged.

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I agree you do need a small spring to keep the throw-out bearing off of the clutch disk/pressure plate fingers when the pedal is not engaged.

 

Hmm, it seems that this spring is missing. The shop from which I bought the diaphragm clutch mentioned that in 30 years they installed this clutch they NEVER had to remove the assist spring behind the tach IF the whole system is functional as it should. They said that the second spring to the firewall is important too for that system.

 

Is that the mentioned spring:

 

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/order_page.asp?itemid=3123

 

When installed the clutch last weekend I did not see such a spring - I will have a look tomorrow under the car. Could the absence of this spring also cause my problem?

 

Tim

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :angel:

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you need that spring from the linkage to the clutch fork to bring the clutch fork back and fully release the throw out bearing. While it will work without it, you'll experience a clutch pedal that may not come back up fully (Your problem as I understand it) and excessive throwout bearing wear and noise and the potential for the rod that engages the clutch lever to rattle loose and drop out of position making your clutch pedal useless.

 

As to the need to remove the assist spring. The diaphragm style clutch uses weights to apply pressure and as such it has lower initial pedal effort. If you are okay with the pedal feel leave it alone, if the pedal feels "numb" or overly liught or the pedal still does not fully return (which I believe the centerforce instructions specifically discuss) you will want the assist spring out.

 

In the meantime, get a spring on the clutch fork

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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Jeff,

 

thank you for your detailed response - that sounds good!

 

I will check that out over the weekend! Hope there will be an old spring flying around the garage...

 

Tim

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :angel:

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Yeah, pretty much any spring will help, old drum brake springs are close. Order the right one, but a hardware store spring can easily be made to work

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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Yeah, pretty much any spring will help, old drum brake springs are close. Order the right one, but a hardware store spring can easily be made to work

 

+1 ::thumb::

 

I will order the right one but in the meantime another spring must do it...

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :angel:

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Mine does the same thing. I think someone replaced my clutch at sone point as under hard acceleration or high rpms the clutch pedal will stay down. I took a few looks at that huge spring ubder there and decided my eyes, fingers, and head are worth keeping. I've learned to push clutch and leave about of inch of travel before hitting floor. It keeps me from getting wild hairs and burning rubber through the gears and wasting tires.

 

I'd be lying if I said I liked it that way. ;)

 

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  • 10 months later...

Hi guys,

 

my buddy and I pulled the motor out and in at the last weekend to renew my freeze plugs, flush the cooling system, change the oil pan to 7 qt and some other things including a new clutch and pressure plate.

 

It is a good Sachs system in diaphragm style. The problem is now that the clutch pedal often remains to stick on the floor which isn't very comfortable while driving or starting on the traffic lights... :dodgy:

 

I have a 1973 q-code with 4-speed-manual.

 

So I have read a few posts like these

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-4-speed-clutch-spring-question?highlight=clutch+spring

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-boss-clutch-return-spring

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-clutch-pedal-assist-spring

 

but they all do not come to a conclusion.

 

What should I do now?

 

It seems that I perhaps also have not a second clutch pedal assist spring that mounts to the side of the pedal box (of which I heard in a thread) if there ever was one on mine. I have only the one at the release bearing and the big one behind the tach. Is the perhaps missing spring relevant for release the pedal?

 

My buddy and I are considering of a additional strong spring behind the tach at the moment which would assist the one which is already there. But some people are saying with a diaphragm style clutch you have to remove the big spring behind the tach "only".

 

So what do you think of or what have you guys done after installing a diaphragm style clutch and coming through this?

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

 

 

1063082458_stangclc_00011.jpg.81975d9a9f494554ddb33c1700438752.jpg


539584513_ClutchLinkage-RETURNSPRING.jpg.2a8e75018e0abd5f17cf5f132f8f930a.jpg539584513_ClutchLinkage-RETURNSPRING.jpg.2a8e75018e0abd5f17cf5f132f8f930a.jpg

Hi guys,

 

my buddy and I pulled the motor out and in at the last weekend to renew my freeze plugs, flush the cooling system, change the oil pan to 7 qt and some other things including a new clutch and pressure plate.

 

It is a good Sachs system in diaphragm style. The problem is now that the clutch pedal often remains to stick on the floor which isn't very comfortable while driving or starting on the traffic lights... :dodgy:

 

I have a 1973 q-code with 4-speed-manual.

 

So I have read a few posts like these

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-4-speed-clutch-spring-question?highlight=clutch+spring

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-boss-clutch-return-spring

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-clutch-pedal-assist-spring

 

but they all do not come to a conclusion.

 

What should I do now?

 

It seems that I perhaps also have not a second clutch pedal assist spring that mounts to the side of the pedal box (of which I heard in a thread) if there ever was one on mine. I have only the one at the release bearing and the big one behind the tach. Is the perhaps missing spring relevant for release the pedal?

 

My buddy and I are considering of a additional strong spring behind the tach at the moment which would assist the one which is already there. But some people are saying with a diaphragm style clutch you have to remove the big spring behind the tach "only".

 

So what do you think of or what have you guys done after installing a diaphragm style clutch and coming through this?

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

 

 

 

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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Hi guys,

 

my buddy and I pulled the motor out and in at the last weekend to renew my freeze plugs, flush the cooling system, change the oil pan to 7 qt and some other things including a new clutch and pressure plate.

 

It is a good Sachs system in diaphragm style. The problem is now that the clutch pedal often remains to stick on the floor which isn't very comfortable while driving or starting on the traffic lights... :dodgy:

 

I have a 1973 q-code with 4-speed-manual.

 

So I have read a few posts like these

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-4-speed-clutch-spring-question?highlight=clutch+spring

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-boss-clutch-return-spring

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-clutch-pedal-assist-spring

 

but they all do not come to a conclusion.

 

What should I do now?

 

It seems that I perhaps also have not a second clutch pedal assist spring that mounts to the side of the pedal box (of which I heard in a thread) if there ever was one on mine. I have only the one at the release bearing and the big one behind the tach. Is the perhaps missing spring relevant for release the pedal?

 

My buddy and I are considering of a additional strong spring behind the tach at the moment which would assist the one which is already there. But some people are saying with a diaphragm style clutch you have to remove the big spring behind the tach "only".

 

So what do you think of or what have you guys done after installing a diaphragm style clutch and coming through this?

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

 

 

 


Hi guys,

 

my buddy and I pulled the motor out and in at the last weekend to renew my freeze plugs, flush the cooling system, change the oil pan to 7 qt and some other things including a new clutch and pressure plate.

 

It is a good Sachs system in diaphragm style. The problem is now that the clutch pedal often remains to stick on the floor which isn't very comfortable while driving or starting on the traffic lights... :dodgy:

 

I have a 1973 q-code with 4-speed-manual.

 

So I have read a few posts like these

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-4-speed-clutch-spring-question?highlight=clutch+spring

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-boss-clutch-return-spring

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-clutch-pedal-assist-spring

 

but they all do not come to a conclusion.

 

What should I do now?

 

It seems that I perhaps also have not a second clutch pedal assist spring that mounts to the side of the pedal box (of which I heard in a thread) if there ever was one on mine. I have only the one at the release bearing and the big one behind the tach. Is the perhaps missing spring relevant for release the pedal?

 

My buddy and I are considering of a additional strong spring behind the tach at the moment which would assist the one which is already there. But some people are saying with a diaphragm style clutch you have to remove the big spring behind the tach "only".

 

So what do you think of or what have you guys done after installing a diaphragm style clutch and coming through this?

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

 

 

 

688341078_ClutchLinkage-RETURNSPRING.jpg.e50e309fba51fcd5b35eea5f4f22aadf.jpg


Hi guys,

 

my buddy and I pulled the motor out and in at the last weekend to renew my freeze plugs, flush the cooling system, change the oil pan to 7 qt and some other things including a new clutch and pressure plate.

 

It is a good Sachs system in diaphragm style. The problem is now that the clutch pedal often remains to stick on the floor which isn't very comfortable while driving or starting on the traffic lights... :dodgy:

 

I have a 1973 q-code with 4-speed-manual.

 

So I have read a few posts like these

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-4-speed-clutch-spring-question?highlight=clutch+spring

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-boss-clutch-return-spring

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-clutch-pedal-assist-spring

 

but they all do not come to a conclusion.

 

What should I do now?

 

It seems that I perhaps also have not a second clutch pedal assist spring that mounts to the side of the pedal box (of which I heard in a thread) if there ever was one on mine. I have only the one at the release bearing and the big one behind the tach. Is the perhaps missing spring relevant for release the pedal?

 

My buddy and I are considering of a additional strong spring behind the tach at the moment which would assist the one which is already there. But some people are saying with a diaphragm style clutch you have to remove the big spring behind the tach "only".

 

So what do you think of or what have you guys done after installing a diaphragm style clutch and coming through this?

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

So my clutch pedal ('73 with a tremec T5) got stuck on the floor two nights ago, at a red light...panic set in and fortunately a guy stopped and pushed me off the road. I tied a piece of romex wire (he had in his truck) to the clutch pedal and drove home. (could pull the romex wire if the clutch pedal got stuck down again. I had just completed putting new bushings/felt washers etc. in both ends of my z bar so I figured I should take a good look for anything obvious. While observing and thinking, I figured that the z bar arm, closest to the frame, which has the clutch rod cottered pinned to it could use some assistance being pulled down. This was while I was under the car (up on jackstands) and the clutch pedal was in the "stuck down" position against the floor. When the pedal is stuck down to the floor this z bar arm is in it's "up" position. That was when I noticed the unused hole in the arm (just above the hole that the clutch rod (which passes through the floor) attaches to and a hole in the adjacent frame that seemed too coincidental. I searched through my shop's spring collection and found an appropriate one in both length and gauge. (luckily I had a few that could work) Drove the car and the problem is gone. Then I was reading the forum about this yesterday and copy/pasted someone's pic of the diagram above. Pretty funny how I came upon this diagram after figuring it out. I added some red text and circles for clarification Why has no one above referred to this "pull" spring, in the diagram, above? Everyone seems to be referring to the large diameter, heavy gauge, over the center, push? spring located behind the tach. I'm thinking, both are needed? Why not?

1479186902_ClutchLinkage-RETURNSPRING.jpg.484a84dbb648aa0a8cf77e2fee879def.jpg

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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Hi EBSTANG,

 

that is the spring I referred to im my postings and Jeff has mentioned above. It is very important to bring that pedal back, too.

 

I first bought this spring from Don

 

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/order_page.asp?itemid=3123

 

but it seemed to be to weak to move anything. So I ended up using an old brake caliper spring which is much stronger and it works perfekt ;)

 

It makes a huge difference with or without!

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :angel:

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great! I just wanted to be sure and get some confirmation from some guys. I also put a very strong spring on there and it seems to be fine. I can't see any reason that a strong spring could hurt anything.


...in looking back at Jeff's post above from 3/27/14 where he states, "you need that spring from the linkage to the clutch fork to bring the clutch fork back and fully release the throw out bearing" I believe that statement made me skip past his post, as it is incorrect. The spring he's referring to only keeps compression on the adjustable release rod between the linkage and the clutch fork. This keeps the rod from possibly falling out during quick shifting. It has NOTHING to do with the return of the pedal. But then on 3/28/14 he speaks of using a brake drum spring and seems to be talking about the return spring we are now speaking of. No disrespect to Jeff, as I depend on kind people such as him for help but sometimes you'll find people will make comments without remembering the DETAILS correctly. When you are the guy seeking the advise, you are specifically interested in the DETAILS. Flippant comments, albeit with good intentions, can cause much confusion. I was making an attempt to clarify (diagrams with the red markings) for myself for confirmation but mostly to leave this thread with the correct info for the next guy, who is struggling to understand. I humbly, thank you all for your help in this forum. I certainly remember the days with no internet!

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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