Found standard bore block, should I buy?

I found someone who has a standard bore 351C block, He was going to do a build, bought some 30 over Kieth Black pistons, a Lunati cam, lifters, 2v heads, crank, etc.......

He only wants $500 for everything, but he hasn't had the block magna-fluxed, and no machine work. Should I buy this block? Do clevelands have any cracking issues if they have not been built for HP? Any advise would be greatly appreciated. I think its a good deal for everything, but don't want to get stuck with another boat anchor!!! I'm going to bring some I.D. mics to check the bores. Thanks gentlemen!!

Are you also saying the block is stripped down? With main caps?

Sounds like a good price to me. If the bores checked out I would probably buy it if I were in the market for one. Is it a local sale, if so maybe have it checked out before finalizing the deal.

+ Judge and...

I never heard of getting a block maged only heads.

If it has a cracked cylinder it will be obvious I been there a few times.

If it is standard or even +30 bore I'd probably buy it if it has the original main caps.

I would also check the main journal size and see if it's been line bored over and look for

variances in journal size to see if the caps are original.

hoping others will help out here it's been years for me.

Good Luck

Paul

they can crack in the main webs and the cylinders but this is uncommon amd as mentioned, if it has main caps it is a good deal but look inside the freeze plug holes . . if it has really heavy rust scales i would be a LITTLE CONCERNED PLUS AT THAT POINT YOU SHOULD HAVE THE BLOCK DIPPED TO REMOVE THE RUST WHICH OS AN ADDITIONAL EXPENSE.

Yes, block is stripped down. And yes, it has its main caps. I know these are kind of rookie questions, but dont want to waste any more money at this point. I didn't think about measuring mains, thats a good idea. Yes, its a local sale, but I'm not sure how patient seller will be if I want to take 2 hrs to take measurements. And I'm pretty sure they dont want to do any more investing in the block as they are trying to get rid of it!

Omie01,

+1 with judge, jbojo, rocket366, and barnett468.

So, I went to the internet to search “How much does it cost to Magnaflux engine cylinder block” and found this website. This an example.

http://www.besracing.com/machine-shop-services.html

Hot tank and install freeze plugs: $129 (includes removing & installing all oil galley plugs and magnaflux)

I would definitely take a good flash light to inspect the cylinder walls and to check to see how the inside of the block looks. Check the top of the cylinders to see how much of a cylinder ridge is there. The Ridge is the point where the piston rings meet the bore. You should feel a very slight ridge. If you barely feel one, that is very good. Also, I would inspect the piston skirts to see If there was any overheating, the crank journals for wear. If they are smooth, then your crank would be consider good.

I did find the website. I did not it was out there. It is the do it yourself engine builder.

http://diyford.com/

Books on Ford Engines

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/George-Reid?store=allproducts&keyword=George+Reid

Lastly, will the seller take the block back, refund your money, if the machine shop finds a problem with it? If so, get a signed document stating the agreement. If all checks good, then it is a good deal. They are not laying any the parts yards any more.

Mustang7173

Does the cam and pistons match the build you want to do? There is a difference in meaning between standard bore and never been bored. The question is will it clean up at +.020, .030, etc.. Until recently I had two never been bored 4 bolt blocks. After having them cleaned, checked, and sonic tested, one will for sure clean up at .030 and the other at .020. I hope it all works out in your favor. Chuck

Hello,

I am new member in Western North Carolina and thought I would put a couple thoughts into the mix.

I agree with all those saying to check out the block a parts for cracks or defects for sure. There is one other area that they are getting very strict about here in North Carolina. Due to the high number of auto thefts they are actually checking serial numbers at swap meets and when you title a car. Here in North Carolina your are required to change the title of the car if you change the engine. If the engine is from a car that had a VIN# Ford stamped the last of the serial number into the block on the rear below the left head. You should at least get a BOS that states the engine type, size, etc. and has the serial number. There are people that will make the serial numbers match for you car. When Harrah's car collection was in existence in Reno I tried to sell them a car and they would not purchase a car if they motor, chassis and title VIN# did not match. They told me that the person with the title with the vin for the engine could come in and take it if not properly documented. Just some thoughts of what has happened.

Will try and get some of my cars on the registry soon.

David

Hello,

I am new member in Western North Carolina and thought I would put a couple thoughts into the mix.

I agree with all those saying to check out the block a parts for cracks or defects for sure. There is one other area that they are getting very strict about here in North Carolina. Due to the high number of auto thefts they are actually checking serial numbers at swap meets and when you title a car. Here in North Carolina your are required to change the title of the car if you change the engine. If the engine is from a car that had a VIN# Ford stamped the last of the serial number into the block on the rear below the left head. You should at least get a BOS that states the engine type, size, etc. and has the serial number. There are people that will make the serial numbers match for you car. When Harrah's car collection was in existence in Reno I tried to sell them a car and they would not purchase a car if they motor, chassis and title VIN# did not match. They told me that the person with the title with the vin for the engine could come in and take it if not properly documented. Just some thoughts of what has happened.

Will try and get some of my cars on the registry soon.

David

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Hi David, welcome to the site. Please post an introduction thread so you can get a proper welcome. Looking forward to hearing more about your Mustang collection.

It COULD be a good deal but I think you need to put some SERIOUS thought as to what Chuck (c9zx) wrote as it pertains to how the block and additional items relate to what you want from the final engine build, i.e., does the cam and pistons REALLY suit your needs.

Here locally, I would not pay $500 for a 2V block but if it came with a NEW cam, pistons, etc., I would certainly look at that being a good deal if the cam, pistons and other items matched up with what I wanted from the motor or if I thought I could get something back from selling those parts.

If the additional "parts" don't suit your intended application, you might try to purchase just the block. I personally would not go for over $250 for the block as 351C 2V block are still relatively plentiful.

my $.02!

BT

$500 for a standard bore block and some new parts is a decent deal if there isn't too big of a ridge and the bores aren't pitted with rust. The rings will wear the bores and leave a ridge at the top of the block wear they don't touch: the bigger the ridge the more material is worn away from the cylinders...

Most Clevelands don't have enough meat more for more than a 0.030" or 0.040" overbore.

If the new parts are in decent shape and you don't want to use them, Ebay them and you'll make some of your $$ back...

I forgot to add that here in the Detroit area I can find core 351C's for $300 - $700 depending on mileage, 4V heads, 4-bolt mains etc. Keep your eyes on Craigslist.

I picked up that block and parts today. Everything is what he said it was. I got the block apart today, no spun bearings, no overheat stains, barely any ridge in the cylinders. After cleaning the cylinders and doing a slight hone, the most wear was .010, most of the mid cylinder measurements were holding between .005-.007. really straight! No visual cracks!! The cam is a Lunati Bracket master II, Hydraulic w/lifter set. Lift: .536 In, .562ex, duration @ .050 224In, 234Ex, Advertised Dur. 290In, 300Ex. Can anybody give me some insight as to how this cam will be? I have 73 OC heads w/small valves, shaved .020. And thinking of running Edelbrock performer w/ 750 holley, and using the .030 over flat top pistons that he bought for the block. Pistons also came with new rings, he had a melling oil pump (new in box) standard pump. Remember, I'm shooting for 375-400hp. If its a little less or little more I will be fine with it. Just a couple questions: should I even bother with the oil restrictor kit? Should I put the 3/16 washer in the oil pump? Can I use the pedestal mount scorpion roller rockers with this build? All help and insight are always greatly appreciated!!

I picked up that block and parts today. Everything is what he said it was. I got the block apart today, no spun bearings, no overheat stains, barely any ridge in the cylinders. After cleaning the cylinders and doing a slight hone, the most wear was .010, most of the mid cylinder measurements were holding between .005-.007. really straight! No visual cracks!! The cam is a Lunati Bracket master II, Hydraulic w/lifter set. Lift: .536 In, .562ex, duration @ .050 224In, 234Ex, Advertised Dur. 290In, 300Ex. Can anybody give me some insight as to how this cam will be? I have 73 OC heads w/small valves, shaved .020. And thinking of running Edelbrock performer w/ 750 holley, and using the .030 over flat top pistons that he bought for the block. Pistons also came with new rings, he had a melling oil pump (new in box) standard pump. Remember, I'm shooting for 375-400hp. If its a little less or little more I will be fine with it. Just a couple questions: should I even bother with the oil restrictor kit? Should I put the 3/16 washer in the oil pump? Can I use the pedestal mount scorpion roller rockers with this build? All help and insight are always greatly appreciated!!

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Close to what I have, using a Herbert cam:

225*/235* @.50

.525/.555 lift

290 duration.

You have just a little more lift than me. Here is how it sounds with 2.5' X pipe exhaust.

That sounds great, I would be more than happy with that. Sounds like good idle manners!! Are you running OC heads?

That sounds great, I would be more than happy with that. Sounds like good idle manners!! Are you running OC heads?

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No I am running 62cc closed chamber with flat top pistons. Also have the Harland Sharpe roller rockers in it. I used Rhoades lifters because I was told that they smooth out the engine with larger cams however the draw back is that it is a little nosier, makes it sound like the lifters needs adjusting.

I picked up that block and parts today. Everything is what he said it was. I got the block apart today, no spun bearings, no overheat stains, barely any ridge in the cylinders. After cleaning the cylinders and doing a slight hone, the most wear was .010, most of the mid cylinder measurements were holding between .005-.007. really straight! No visual cracks!! The cam is a Lunati Bracket master II, Hydraulic w/lifter set. Lift: .536 In, .562ex, duration @ .050 224In, 234Ex, Advertised Dur. 290In, 300Ex. Can anybody give me some insight as to how this cam will be? I have 73 OC heads w/small valves, shaved .020. And thinking of running Edelbrock performer w/ 750 holley, and using the .030 over flat top pistons that he bought for the block. Pistons also came with new rings, he had a melling oil pump (new in box) standard pump. Remember, I'm shooting for 375-400hp. If its a little less or little more I will be fine with it. Just a couple questions: should I even bother with the oil restrictor kit? Should I put the 3/16 washer in the oil pump? Can I use the pedestal mount scorpion roller rockers with this build? All help and insight are always greatly appreciated!!

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Based on what you have said, and an assumption about deck height (.015), the static compression ratio should be right at 9.1:1. The cam will work with that compression but 9.5 would be a bit better (0 deck the block). Degree in the cam. The Performer is not a good match for that cam. The Performer RPM/Airgap or Blue Thunder would be a better fit. I have used the Scorpion bolt downs on a 351C. It will work but, it is a pain to get valve train/rocker geometry correct. Make sure you get proper valve springs and a quality performance valve job. At a minimum, replace the OEM rod nuts with ARP/Pioneer high strength units. Restrict all 5 cam bearings and set the depth of the front cam bearing per the Ford shop manual. The pump shim should be about .100-.125. Also consider using restricted or very thick wall pushrods to send more oil to the crank and less to the top end. Initial timing at 16-18 with total mechanical being 36. Your power goals are very achievable. Plan on using a decent rear gear and matching convertor. Find and use a very competent Performance machine shop. Let us know how things proceed. Chuck

WOW! Thank you for the input, I do want to get this right! Do any of those intakes allow use of my Ram Air system? Could you elaborate a little more about the valve train geometry and what issues I might run into? And lastly, I am not very well versed in the timing thing, how to you go about setting the timing? I don't know much about initial timing, mechanical etc. I will try to do some research and educate myself, but some info wouldn't hurt. Thank you very much!!!

WOW! Thank you for the input, I do want to get this right! Do any of those intakes allow use of my Ram Air system? Could you elaborate a little more about the valve train geometry and what issues I might run into? And lastly, I am not very well versed in the timing thing, how to you go about setting the timing? I don't know much about initial timing, mechanical etc. I will try to do some research and educate myself, but some info wouldn't hurt. Thank you very much!!!

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This video will get you started on valve train geometry. It is not directly applicable if you use bolt down rocker arms but, it will give you an idea of what is going on and why it matters.


The issues may be no ability to lower the rocker arm and very limited ability to raise the rocker arm with shims. You will be trying to get the rocker geometry right (minimum sweep on valve stem tip) and lifter preload right at the same time without having the ability to really adjust the height of the rocker arm. This is an option but costly. Not much more to convert to adjustable valve train. http://www.rmcompetition.com/rocker-arms-.html

The distributor will need to be "recurved" to get the rate of advance and total mechanical advance right. You should start asking around to find a good local "wrench" who can do the work. Of course after market units are always an option. Good luck. Chuck