Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Running any engine without a thermostat will make it run hot not cooler. Anyone saying otherwise has never done it. If you have no restriction the water just gushes through the system and does not spend enough time in the radiator to cool. The hotter the thermostat you use in hot weather the less chance you have of over heating. 
I have not read your whole post. From what I see here I would do a exhaust gas in coolant check. Most parts houses will loan if you buy the solution. 
The symptom you have of it blowing out coolant when you stop tells me you have a hot spot somewhere and when you shut off engine that hot spot boils the coolant and blows it out. If you have had the heads off I would be suspect of a backward head gasket. I think you have a Cleveland which does not have core plugs in the end of the head that you can pop out to check. You can look with a mirror. The front bottom corner on the gasket is square with a small radius. The rear has a large radius and then angle. If you do not have the baffle in the block under the thermostat that can be an issue also. I have eight Clevelands and only one that ever had an issue the PO had put one head gasket on backwards. He did not drive it for 25 years and I bought it and found the backwards gasket. Replaced and you can drive in 90 deg. + bumper to bumper traffic with 195 deg. thermostat and no heating issues. It is bored .050" over cam, flat top pistons, automatic and MSD ignition with 2-V heads and 4-V performer intake so not stock. The radiator is stock original Ford. I did put a stand alone transmission cooler on. Here is pic of a cleveland head gasket note the difference from end to end. If on backwards there is not much flow of coolant in head. You turn engine off and the hot spot in head percolates the coolant and blows out. The gasket picture would by like it would be on drivers side see the big hole in the left hand tab that needs to be in front on the passenger side also. Get a mirror and check your gaskets. 1255687301_351C.jpg.4b7fff8aa0a5b99791db981b451d6d48.jpg

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 57
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I run a stock radiator and have not had over heat issue. 351 C bored .050" flat top pistons, cam, headers, <MSD, auto and AC. You can put CLR mixed with water in the radiator and dissolve the crust

Yes drill a 1/32" dia. hole in thermostat out near where the gasket goes. Just lets the air out of block while filling and not going to affect flow. Some thermostats come with the hole in them. So s

I'm just getting back to this post. I re-read through and I know you're a mechanic which I'm far from, but I have to wonder if you don't have air trapped in the block somewhere. I found they are not t

Posted Images

+1 on do not run without a thermostat, especially in hot climates. The thermostat provides enough restriction in the water flow so the coolant has time to absorb heat in the block and then transfer the heat to the air in the radiator. 

You may have overfilled the radiator. When you shut the engine off all of that engine heat transfers into the coolant in the block, may even cause some of it to boil, expanding the coolant and causing some to burp out.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Took a mirror to the back of the head, driver's side back by the brake booster. I noticed a visible gap between the head and the block that I can only assume is due to the taper of the gasket on that end. So I believe it's on correct. 

That's what I've always known about the t-stats also. That the higher temp T-Stats actually raise the boiling point and are actually beneficial. That's why I asked instead of just taking the 5 minutes to lower the fluid level and pulling it out. I have heard that drilling a tiny pilot hole in the t-stat can help it bleed out any air better. I did go from a 180* to a 192*. I should note that it never puked on the 180* but it did with this 192*. BUT I definitely could have overfilled it. I only had the fluid bout 1" down from the top, and maybe that wasn't quite enough for expansion. 

I'll let her idle up to temp and take some readings in different spots with the laser thermometer. I"ll try to grab temps from the T-Stat housing, water pump at the temp sender, at the exhaust ports of the heads at all 8 cylinders, and around the radiator in different spots. Anywhere else you guys can think of that would be good?

I know my lower hose does NOT have a spring in it. It is new though. 

I'd like to hook up a new gauge to the temp sender, just to see how much it differs from the stock gauge. I'm assuming that just about an aftermarket gauge will work as I don't intend to mount it. 

Edited by Big Red Mach 1

Chris - BIG RED MACH 1

Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes drill a 1/32" dia. hole in thermostat out near where the gasket goes. Just lets the air out of block while filling and not going to affect flow. Some thermostats come with the hole in them.
So sounds like your gaskets are right. On the right hand head you can run a wire from the thermostat opening up into the head to where the big round hole is and double check gasket also. I make a habit to taking pic just before head goes on. 

  • Like 1

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just getting back to this post. I re-read through and I know you're a mechanic which I'm far from, but I have to wonder if you don't have air trapped in the block somewhere. I found they are not the best to get air out of, but what I do if to fill without the T stat or the hosing in place. I have in the past, remove the pump belt and turned the pump by hand to help get water moving. Does this do anything, not sure, but can't hurt. Once the water is right up in the T stat hole, then put the stat back in and install the housing and rad hose. Fill the rad and start the motor for a short time, checking the flow, no cap on Rad. Is this correct, I don't know, but I've never had an issue with overheating as you describe. I have a Stant 195* in mine and it runs around 190 on a hot day. The only time I've seen it higher was last summer on the way back from the Mustang show in Dearborn Mi, when I got stuck at the border for a 1/2 hr. Revving the motor, pissing off those around me, got the temp back down below 200. Had to do that a couple of times. Once moving again, back to normal.

As for headers, I don't have them on this car, but the 72 Q I had, the floor got soo hot, it would almost melt your shoes, no, there was no insulation.

  • Like 1

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm late to the party, so please forgive me if this has been mentioned.  Have you replaced your Radiator cap?  Radiators rely upon pressure to assist in the cooling process.  If it is older, it may be time for a fresh cap.

Lower hoses shound have springs in them to prevent collapse.  If this is occurring, nothing but a new hose will fix the system.

As to the remaining gunk in your coolant,  I would flush the system repeatedly with clean water until it drains clean then flush with a few gallons of distilled water before refilling it with the proper coolant/mix.  Pure anti freeze doesn't cool as well as a 50-50 mix (unless you are using one of the modern prediluted mixtures.)

I'm running a close to 600 HP 393 stroker bored 30 over with a high volume water pump and a griffin aluminum radiator and I have not experienced the heating issues you have . . . and I have AC on the car.

After filling a cooling system, it should puke once or twice down to the proper level, it is the repeated puking that would worry me.

 

I've never bothered with the exhaust crossovers on an aftermarket intake-it seems to be unnecessary

 

  • Like 1

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Stanglover said:

I'm just getting back to this post. I re-read through and I know you're a mechanic which I'm far from, but I have to wonder if you don't have air trapped in the block somewhere. I found they are not the best to get air out of, but what I do if to fill without the T stat or the hosing in place. I have in the past, remove the pump belt and turned the pump by hand to help get water moving. Does this do anything, not sure, but can't hurt. Once the water is right up in the T stat hole, then put the stat back in and install the housing and rad hose. Fill the rad and start the motor for a short time, checking the flow, no cap on Rad. Is this correct, I don't know, but I've never had an issue with overheating as you describe. I have a Stant 195* in mine and it runs around 190 on a hot day. The only time I've seen it higher was last summer on the way back from the Mustang show in Dearborn Mi, when I got stuck at the border for a 1/2 hr. Revving the motor, pissing off those around me, got the temp back down below 200. Had to do that a couple of times. Once moving again, back to normal.

As for headers, I don't have them on this car, but the 72 Q I had, the floor got soo hot, it would almost melt your shoes, no, there was no insulation.

I thought about vapor lock. It's certainly a possibility. I do like your idea of slowly filling the block up to the t-stat hole, and then installing the T-Stat/Housing/Upper hose and filling the rest of the way. I'll probably do that the next time I have to drain it down. That's for that great idea Geoff.  

Chris - BIG RED MACH 1

Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Jeff73Mach1 said:

I'm late to the party, so please forgive me if this has been mentioned.  Have you replaced your Radiator cap?  Radiators rely upon pressure to assist in the cooling process.  If it is older, it may be time for a fresh cap.

Lower hoses shound have springs in them to prevent collapse.  If this is occurring, nothing but a new hose will fix the system.

As to the remaining gunk in your coolant,  I would flush the system repeatedly with clean water until it drains clean then flush with a few gallons of distilled water before refilling it with the proper coolant/mix.  Pure anti freeze doesn't cool as well as a 50-50 mix (unless you are using one of the modern prediluted mixtures.)

I'm running a close to 600 HP 393 stroker bored 30 over with a high volume water pump and a griffin aluminum radiator and I have not experienced the heating issues you have . . . and I have AC on the car.

After filling a cooling system, it should puke once or twice down to the proper level, it is the repeated puking that would worry me.

 

I've never bothered with the exhaust crossovers on an aftermarket intake-it seems to be unnecessary

 

So the upper and lower hoses are new (New lower hoses does not have a spring), T-Stat new (went from 180 to 192) new radiator and new cap. I thought about the cap and actually swapped to a different one, even though I have not driven the car again since. But I did wonder about a bad cap. I am hoping it did just as you suggested, puked down once or twice to the proper level. I very well may have had it filled a bit too high. 

Chris - BIG RED MACH 1

Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Big Red Mach 1 said:

I thought about vapor lock. It's certainly a possibility. I do like your idea of slowly filling the block up to the t-stat hole, and then installing the T-Stat/Housing/Upper hose and filling the rest of the way. I'll probably do that the next time I have to drain it down. That's for that great idea Geoff.  

You might also want to raise the front a little to assist the air moving from the back of the block. I think you'd be safe, once the block is full, to run the engine a short time just to get the water moving, but that could get messy! A PITA for sure.

  • Like 1

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Stanglover said:

You might also want to raise the front a little to assist the air moving from the back of the block. I think you'd be safe, once the block is full, to run the engine a short time just to get the water moving, but that could get messy! A PITA for sure.

Yeah, I doubt I start it at that point. But I do like the idea of filling it to that point in that manner. 

Chris - BIG RED MACH 1

Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Big Red Mach 1 said:

Yeah, I doubt I start it at that point. But I do like the idea of filling it to that point in that manner. 

I've had to redo mine about 4 times now that way and not run the motor until it's all back together, but on second thoughts, may not be such a good idea to run the motor, water all over the place.   Possibly just crank it?

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

We put the radiator for a frineds vehicle in the trunk and used exhaust pipe to run the water lines.  You want to try and get air out of a system, that one will give you nightmares.

 

  • LOL 1

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting thread.  The part about checking the timing cover plate was interesting as I have seen them in really bad condition in the past, but wouldn’t that put coolant into the oil (Something I would see)?  

Despite my recent post on overheating, historically I have never had overheating problems with a 351C, in fact they seem to run cool on the cars I have owned.  I haven’t had time to fully figure out what is going on with my ‘69 right now, but I did confirm the thermostat is opening properly.  I bought a new one anyway and drilled a small hole as instructed in this thread.  My next step is to do the combustion gas leak test.  If that goes OK I am going to pull the water pump to see if something is going on there.  If the head gasket is leaking I told my wife I am buying either a stroker motor or I am going to swap in a late model 5.0.   She just grumbled a bit, not enough to deter me.  A true win-win-win scenario other than my checking account balance.

spacer.png
1931 Ford Model A Station Wagon
1969 Mach 1 - 351C, TKO-600, 4WDB, R&P, A/C, Shaker, Fold Down, etc.
1972 Mach 1 - 351C, FMX, PDB, PS, A/C, Fold Down, Console
1996 Mustang Cobra Convertible - 10psi Procharger, 436rwhp

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, 69 Rustang said:

Interesting thread.  The part about checking the timing cover plate was interesting as I have seen them in really bad condition in the past, but wouldn’t that put coolant into the oil (Something I would see)?  

Despite my recent post on overheating, historically I have never had overheating problems with a 351C, in fact they seem to run cool on the cars I have owned.  I haven’t had time to fully figure out what is going on with my ‘69 right now, but I did confirm the thermostat is opening properly.  I bought a new one anyway and drilled a small hole as instructed in this thread.  My next step is to do the combustion gas leak test.  If that goes OK I am going to pull the water pump to see if something is going on there.  If the head gasket is leaking I told my wife I am buying either a stroker motor or I am going to swap in a late model 5.0.   She just grumbled a bit, not enough to deter me.  A true win-win-win scenario other than my checking account balance.

I feel like I'm in the same spot. I have the water pump. Have not put it on. I also have the test kit coming to see if I have any combustion gasses in the cooling system. If the test comes back negative, I'll do the water pump and timing cover next. 

Chris - BIG RED MACH 1

Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Big Red Mach 1 said:

I feel like I'm in the same spot. I have the water pump. Have not put it on. I also have the test kit coming to see if I have any combustion gasses in the cooling system. If the test comes back negative, I'll do the water pump and timing cover next. 

Interesting!  Good luck!  Do you have a Plan B if the head gaskets are leaking?  Fix it or something fun?  Off topic...LOL

spacer.png
1931 Ford Model A Station Wagon
1969 Mach 1 - 351C, TKO-600, 4WDB, R&P, A/C, Shaker, Fold Down, etc.
1972 Mach 1 - 351C, FMX, PDB, PS, A/C, Fold Down, Console
1996 Mustang Cobra Convertible - 10psi Procharger, 436rwhp

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Big Red Mach 1 said:

So the upper and lower hoses are new (New lower hoses does not have a spring), 

 Lower rad hose "spring" is available from NPD # 8A-286-1A for about 6 bucks. You NEED one in there.

  • Like 1

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

For whatever reason, I could never get a spring into the lower hose so had to leave it out. Here is a related article but cant say how valid it is:

 

Original equipment molded radiator hoses often were equipped with a coil inside them. Some refer to this coil as a spring, but it isn't really a spring. Actually just a piece of thin metal rod that has been twisted, it was designed to facilitate the installation of coolant on the assembly line, and nothing more.

When the cooling system of a car is completely drained, or in the case of a brand new car under construction, never had coolant in it, there is a considerable amount of air in the passage ways. Normally, when filling up the cooling system, you start the car to circulate the coolant, displace trapped air, and then top it off. On the assembly line, this wasn't feasible, so air in the cooling system was evacuated by essentially pulling a vacuum on it. This also had the added advantage of speeding up the introduction of the coolant mixture to the cooling system as well. The coil in the lower radiator hose prevented the hose from collapsing under this higher than normal vacuum.

Once the car left the factory, the coil served no further purpose. This is why replacement hoses usually do not have a coil in them. Most cooling systems operate at 12-15 P.S.I., which is controlled by the radiator cap. This is enough pressure to allow a normally functioning cooling system to operate efficiently, yet not enough to cause collapsed hoses or leaks in seals if they're in good condition. If the lower radiator hose collapses, it is normally due to a fault somewhere else in the system, and is not necessarily indicative of a bad hose, although an old hose certainly might be susceptible to collapse due to age. Normally, if the hose is in good condition but collapsing and blocking the flow of coolant, the radiator cap is bad or there's a blockage somewhere else causing pressure to build up in the cooling system.

As vehicles with original hoses began to age, the coil would sometimes begin to corrode and deteriorate, circulating tiny pieces of metal throughout the cooling system. We'll leave it to your imagination what this did to water pumps and thermostats.

This is just one of many interesting stories about automobiles, the people who build them, and how they were built, brought to you by Automotive Mileposts.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, SteveO_71 said:

For whatever reason, I could never get a spring into the lower hose so had to leave it out. Here is a related article but cant say how valid it is:

 

Original equipment molded radiator hoses often were equipped with a coil inside them. Some refer to this coil as a spring, but it isn't really a spring. Actually just a piece of thin metal rod that has been twisted, it was designed to facilitate the installation of coolant on the assembly line, and nothing more.

When the cooling system of a car is completely drained, or in the case of a brand new car under construction, never had coolant in it, there is a considerable amount of air in the passage ways. Normally, when filling up the cooling system, you start the car to circulate the coolant, displace trapped air, and then top it off. On the assembly line, this wasn't feasible, so air in the cooling system was evacuated by essentially pulling a vacuum on it. This also had the added advantage of speeding up the introduction of the coolant mixture to the cooling system as well. The coil in the lower radiator hose prevented the hose from collapsing under this higher than normal vacuum.

Once the car left the factory, the coil served no further purpose. This is why replacement hoses usually do not have a coil in them. Most cooling systems operate at 12-15 P.S.I., which is controlled by the radiator cap. This is enough pressure to allow a normally functioning cooling system to operate efficiently, yet not enough to cause collapsed hoses or leaks in seals if they're in good condition. If the lower radiator hose collapses, it is normally due to a fault somewhere else in the system, and is not necessarily indicative of a bad hose, although an old hose certainly might be susceptible to collapse due to age. Normally, if the hose is in good condition but collapsing and blocking the flow of coolant, the radiator cap is bad or there's a blockage somewhere else causing pressure to build up in the cooling system.

As vehicles with original hoses began to age, the coil would sometimes begin to corrode and deteriorate, circulating tiny pieces of metal throughout the cooling system. We'll leave it to your imagination what this did to water pumps and thermostats.

This is just one of many interesting stories about automobiles, the people who build them, and how they were built, brought to you by Automotive Mileposts.

Interesting article and does make sense. 

I can't be 100% sure as it's been 8 years since I replaced my hoses, but I'm thinking the coil was already in the lower hose when purchased, but as I said, I could be wrong. I just don't remember putting it in there. I was always under the understanding that the lower hose could collapse and as a precaution, the coil was there to stop that happening. As for corroding, possibly, but with the proper coolant mixture, a bit less likely. I personally have not had one corrode to the point of breaking up. However, something to keep in mind. As for Big Red's lower hose, I'll back up a previous statement and go with try it without and if it doesn't show signs of collapse, leave it alone.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, 69 Rustang said:

Interesting!  Good luck!  Do you have a Plan B if the head gaskets are leaking?  Fix it or something fun?  Off topic...LOL

I really can't yet wrap my head around what I will do if I in fact have a leak. Part of me would just say take a long weekend, replace the head gaskets and do the water pump at the same time. 

The other part of me would want to take the opportunity to go all the way, and do something fun like stroke it. But it's just time and money that's the pisser. Money wise, if I went that route I'd probably sell my boat and use the funds from that. If I do that, I'd have a decent budget of around $13k to play with. I just hope to not have to go that route. 

Chris - BIG RED MACH 1

Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Head gaskets are not hard to swap.  I can do a pair in the car in under 3 hours.  Valve adjustment is a little time consuming.

  • Like 1

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mjseakan said:

I vote keep the boat.

(I'd say sell your house, wife, kids, pets instead but I don't know you well enough for that)

If only.... ;-)

Chris - BIG RED MACH 1

Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jeff73Mach1 said:

Head gaskets are not hard to swap.  I can do a pair in the car in under 3 hours.  Valve adjustment is a little time consuming.

Not hard, but I don't move fast. For me, I'd take a weekend to do it at my typical slow pace. 

Chris - BIG RED MACH 1

Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I probably would too, but the actual work isn't too bad.  As long as there is no damage to address it is mostly a lot of careful cleaning before reassembly

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...