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building a 351c 4v on a budget!


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ok so im tossing around ideas on how to build my motor, im new at this ive done a lot of research etc on the 351c, but i would like to maybe build the motor this winter with guidance of a knowledgeable friend hes built motors but i s a chevy guy :(

 

car will be mostly a show car, nice day driver with some power!

what i have

D0AE block 4 bolt main

d0ae-a rods

im assuming stock crank'

D1zb closed chamber 4v heads with screw in studs

offenhauser alum intake

hooker i believe, long tube headers

will have a toploader 4 speed sitting behind it

 

im looking to obviously re use the block and rods, i dont think i will have to bore the motor but im going to get the block checked, and fluxed. also plan on gettin the rods check and shot peened?

im looking to keep it low budget since im in school

so lets say 1500 -2000

where do you guys think it would be wise to invest my money.maybe shooting for 350-400hp?

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How many miles on your engine now? You'll want to have your crank checked as well if it's a high mileage engine to make sure of the bearrings you'll need. Then go with a good cam and with those CC heads shoot for 10-10.5 to 1 on the compression.

2rr7aiv.png

 

Just cruising along minding our own business when BAM!!! The LAWS show up.

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Im building mine....Just carb and cam...Open chambered 4v heads...Im expecting according to the desktop dyno's about 425hp...with a 5.30 lift with a 280 duration dual profile cam...with a 750 holley...10:1 compression.''will cost you around 1200 bucks or more......pretty much a top end kit.."besides pistons"..i woud say 2,000 by the time your done wouldnt be too far off the mark..counts how much block work needs to be done too thou...and long as your heads are ok...they should be checked out early ones had soft vavle seats...and new carb..750 or 850cfm.

 

and i wouldnt get too big of a cam...or you need the head work to go along with it and bigger carb...plus vacume boosters to keep your breaks working....but i hear everything up too 580ish lift still getting decent breaking power..."but dont take that too the bank" I think they mite need some head mill work for bigger valve springs after 5.40 lift.

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If the Offy intake is anything but the dual port version, ditch it.

I'd tend to believe that you'd be happier with a dual plane Edelbrock Performer or Performer RPM. Either one would be a better street manifold.

Pete - MotoArts Decals and Signs

'71 Sportsroof 351C-4V/4-speed - FINALLY under construction - no, wait, on hold again...

'90 Mustang 7-Up 5.0 ragtop, rolling beater - SOLD

'66 Sunbeam Tiger Mk.IA, survivor

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thanks for the replies, not sure of mileage on motor as it was partially dissaembled with my car, but appears to be in good shape, not really an ridges on cylinder tops etc. ill have to look closer at the intake not sure of model or design just know its aluminum just trying to get some ideas together, what kind of cam did you put in it? i know there are a few different types hydraulic, flat tappet etc

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Okay...I tried to bite my tongue on this...can't take it any more.

 

87fox72mach..dude. Everyone wants to build a 5000HP motor on a $500 budget... more money for beer and paint. I know we all tell our wives, "No way did I spend more than $500 for the motor." Guess it depends on what your definition of a motor is.

 

My suggestion(holding tongue with left hand, typing with right) is to invest in the bottom end-

-Machine/hone cylinder walls

-Pistons

-Rings

-Grind crank

 

and maybe most importantly get the proper TORQUE CONVERTER.

 

If you don't do the bottom end right, you will have to take the whole motor apart to make corrections. Especially if you decide to at a few HP here and there. Do it right now and you will be good for 200,000 miles. Not doing the bottom end right while it is out is like taking Pamela Anderson and Paris Hilton out on a date and not expecting to get...happy. Or is it going on a date with Pam and Paris and expecting to get happy? I'll have to think about that one...

 

Later, you can replace all top end components any time you want without having to tear into the bottom:

 

-Heads

-Intake

-Carb

-Distributor

-Ignition

-Blah Blah Blah

 

In regards to pistons, heads, cams and such, I believe the gold standard is the 351 BOSS. You can find most of the cam/piston/carb/compression specs without too much trouble. These are relatively inexpensive if you are patient and know what you are looking for(well, pistons aren't inexpensive...good thing I don't consider them part of the $500 motor). Look up DAN JONES and 351C. He will give you the scoop on what needs to be done and what doesn't

 

Every cam manufacturer makes a 351 BOSS cam with either solid or hydraulic lifters. You decide if you want your motor to clank(solid) or thump(hydraulic). You will get your 350HP give or take. And, you should have a very good streetable motor. Later you can screw it all up with that 850 CFM carb on a torquer intake with the long tube headers and over indulgent cam.

 

Now, go build that $500 motor.

11jmcuc.png

351C Bold Manners, Brash Attitude

Favorite Teams: Michigan Wolverines and Whoever Is Playing Ohio State.

 

When I drive past a herd of cows, the cows MOO at me

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thanks for the replies, not sure of mileage on motor as it was partially dissaembled with my car, but appears to be in good shape, not really an ridges on cylinder tops etc. ill have to look closer at the intake not sure of model or design just know its aluminum just trying to get some ideas together, what kind of cam did you put in it? i know there are a few different types hydraulic, flat tappet etc

 

flat tap hydrolic kit will only run you about 500 bucks at jegs ...after seals...heads mag fluxed and checked out...block done up..you mite be able to get here all done for less that 1200..But!! Dont get your hopes up too much..hehe..Things always pop up during motor builds..hehe...You could get a roller cam..But on average...They cost about 300 or 400 more..and wont realy give you much more power for the buck...Budget...Its hard to beat the old hydrolic cam...If you want some serious power...anything between a 5.25 or a 5.40 lift..And 280 duration will be pretty agressive and wake your cleveland right up...But you will need a 750cfm holley vac secondary at the least too run it...even the stock cast iron manifold will run up too 500hp...So manifold wont be the biggest issue...Long as its a 4v manifold made for that 4v cleveland.

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Okay...I tried to bite my tongue on this...can't take it any more.

 

87fox72mach..dude. Everyone wants to build a 5000HP motor on a $500 budget... more money for beer and paint. I know we all tell our wives, "No way did I spend more than $500 for the motor." Guess it depends on what your definition of a motor is.

 

My suggestion(holding tongue with left hand, typing with right) is to invest in the bottom end-

-Machine/hone cylinder walls

-Pistons

-Rings

-Grind crank

 

and maybe most importantly get the proper TORQUE CONVERTER.

 

If you don't do the bottom end right, you will have to take the whole motor apart to make corrections. Especially if you decide to at a few HP here and there. Do it right now and you will be good for 200,000 miles. Not doing the bottom end right while it is out is like taking Pamela Anderson and Paris Hilton out on a date and not expecting to get...happy. Or is it going on a date with Pam and Paris and expecting to get happy? I'll have to think about that one...

 

Later, you can replace all top end components any time you want without having to tear into the bottom:

 

-Heads

-Intake

-Carb

-Distributor

-Ignition

-Blah Blah Blah

 

In regards to pistons, heads, cams and such, I believe the gold standard is the 351 BOSS. You can find most of the cam/piston/carb/compression specs without too much trouble. These are relatively inexpensive if you are patient and know what you are looking for(well, pistons aren't inexpensive...good thing I don't consider them part of the $500 motor). Look up DAN JONES and 351C. He will give you the scoop on what needs to be done and what doesn't

 

Every cam manufacturer makes a 351 BOSS cam with either solid or hydraulic lifters. You decide if you want your motor to clank(solid) or thump(hydraulic). You will get your 350HP give or take. And, you should have a very good streetable motor. Later you can screw it all up with that 850 CFM carb on a torquer intake with the long tube headers and over indulgent cam.

 

Now, go build that $500 motor.

 

First off he said he would like to keep it between 1500-2000 range not 500.

 

Second "the proper TORQUE CONVERTER" will do him absolutely no good running a toploader 4 speed.

 

Third- stopped reading at that point because it seems you failed to read his first post so...................................................

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Splurge on forged pistons, ARP fastners and a proper dynamic balancing of the rotating assembly.

 

If you ever want to do more to the engine, these will give you the bottom end strength to push it much harder.

 

Other than that a nice stock style rebuild would be fine

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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ok so im tossing around ideas on how to build my motor, im new at this ive done a lot of research etc on the 351c, but i would like to maybe build the motor this winter with guidance of a knowledgeable friend hes built motors but i s a chevy guy :(

 

car will be mostly a show car, nice day driver with some power!

what i have

D0AE block 4 bolt main

d0ae-a rods

im assuming stock crank'

D1zb closed chamber 4v heads with screw in studs

offenhauser alum intake

hooker i believe, long tube headers

will have a toploader 4 speed sitting behind it

 

im looking to obviously re use the block and rods, i dont think i will have to bore the motor but im going to get the block checked, and fluxed. also plan on gettin the rods check and shot peened?

im looking to keep it low budget since im in school

so lets say 1500 -2000

where do you guys think it would be wise to invest my money.maybe shooting for 350-400hp?

 

 

1 - Is the block a D0AE with 4 bolt mains... for sure?

If so someone made it that way OR you might have a chunk of gold sitting there

 

2- recheck the heads... D1 - closed chamber with screw in studs...

again someone may have made them screw in studs OR you might have 2 more chunks of gold sitting there.

 

 

In any event 70 and 71 closed chamber head stock motors were 280 - 300 HP, better cam, headers, intake and carb got you 350 easy maybe close to the 400

Ohio Mustang Supply

440-949-2556

 

oms_sig_banner.jpg

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I just got done with my build and used the BOSS 351 specs as a guideline. We built mine a little bigger though, about 420H.P. There is some good advise in previous posts, like building a solid bottom end first, then move to the cam and heads. I dont want to scare you but I don't see how you can do what your looking to do for $2000ish. I budgeted $4000 for my build and went over by nearly $2000,:s. Don't tell my wife!:rolleyes: Although I purchased many new parts that you are not planning to do. Here is a short list: closed chambered heads, all new valves, springs, screw ins, porting and all machine work. forged pistons, bearings, machined&polished crank, recond. rods, all ARP bolts and fasteners (highly recommended), chromemoly pushrods, lifters, flat tappet cam, high flow fuel pump, oil pump, water pump, dual timing chain, edelbrock performer intake, (Highly recommend a dual plane over what you have), hooker headers, new clutch kit and resurface flywheel.....and more than I can remember right now. Give it alot of thought before jumping into it or you will be shocked at how much things add up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:P

1973 Mach 1 Q code, 4 speed toploader w/3.70 traction lock

Freshly rebuilt with boss closed chambered heads, flat top pistons, adjustable roller rockers, Erson flat tappet cam, ARP bolts thru out, 10/10 crank, port plates, edelbrock performer intake, Holley 4160 750cfm duel feed, Hooker Comp. full length headers, custom h-pipe to dual Hooker mufflers. Specs out to 415 H.P.

In the words of Ricky Bobby, " If you ain't first your last" Ha, Ha, Ha :P

 

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ok so im tossing around ideas on how to build my motor, im new at this ive done a lot of research etc on the 351c, but i would like to maybe build the motor this winter with guidance of a knowledgeable friend hes built motors but i s a chevy guy :(

 

car will be mostly a show car, nice day driver with some power!

what i have

D0AE block 4 bolt main

d0ae-a rods

im assuming stock crank'

D1zb closed chamber 4v heads with screw in studs

offenhauser alum intake

hooker i believe, long tube headers

will have a toploader 4 speed sitting behind it

 

im looking to obviously re use the block and rods, i dont think i will have to bore the motor but im going to get the block checked, and fluxed. also plan on gettin the rods check and shot peened?

im looking to keep it low budget since im in school

so lets say 1500 -2000

where do you guys think it would be wise to invest my money.maybe shooting for 350-400hp?

 

Much of the costs depends on what parts you have and their condition. If the heads are set up for adjustable valve train it may mean someone has already installed single groove valves and Springs, retainers, and locks that are compatible with a "performance" cam. Do you have adjustable rocker arms? Do you have hardened pushrods? Can the pistons be reused, can the block just be finish honed instead of being bored? Can the crank be used as is or require polishing or re-grinding. What cam, if any, came with the engine? Are stock rod bolts and nuts in the rods? Were the rods used with the crank you have or are all the parts from different engines?

You must find a very competent machine shop to perform the work for you. Preferably one familiar with Clevelands. A good question to ask is "Do you have a deck plate for this engine?" If the answer is no, move on. DO NOT short hit this item. Poor or wrong machine work condemns the build to failure no matter what parts you use. You will likely need to find a machine shop now to answer some of the questions posted above.

There are responsible ways to build on a budget if your goals match you budget. However, it requires some "homework". If I can help let me know. Good luck with your project, it sounds like a lot of fun to me. Chuck

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First off he said he would like to keep it between 1500-2000 range not 500.

 

I was trying to save him some money...no. I actually misread the post. I am surprised anyone here accept Q has a couple mega large to put into a motor.

 

Second "the proper TORQUE CONVERTER" will do him absolutely no good running a toploader 4 speed.

 

I was trying to make my suggestion universal.

 

Third- stopped reading at that point because it seems you failed to read his first post so...................................................

 

Did you at least get to the Pamela Anderson/Paris Hilton part? It was probably one of my worst analogies... and that is saying a lot.

 

Okay...so if you got $1500-$2000, wouldn't your first priority be to invest in the bottom end with a magnafluxed block, honed/bored block, new pistons, ground crankshaft? Once this is solid, you can do what you want on the top.

 

That was my main point.

 

And, I am asking this in a nice way. I know Tnfastbk is a very capable guy. He offered to paint half my engine parts for me...wonder if he is a from Lux...

11jmcuc.png

351C Bold Manners, Brash Attitude

Favorite Teams: Michigan Wolverines and Whoever Is Playing Ohio State.

 

When I drive past a herd of cows, the cows MOO at me

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ok i appreicate all the responses, let me start off with this, im 22 i wasnt even thought of when these cars came out, so that right there puts me at a deficit, however i have researched these cars in and out and although i dont know everything i know a decent amount. but engine building is new to me, my 87 5.0 was worked when i bought it i have done some work like new valve springs etc and i understand most of the terms associated with engine building however i have never physically built one before, which i would like to do with this project, i was planning on just building the motor good enough to drive for now while i get the car painted etc, the budget proposed was just so i could get started it can be a slow build and that amount is not set in stone, im just seeing for the first 1500 or so i spend on the motor where should it go with what i already have, example many mentioned bottom end. i feel this is where i should spend my money. cash flow is tight until i graduate in may. so do i keep the rods? obviosuly new bearings pistons, and machine work done. i apppreciate alll of the info from the users who respected my question and are willing to help me learn. i would even give my nuimber to someone knowledgeable to talk to about these motors, i enjoy learning as much as a i can.

 

Don- is there a way to tell if the work has been done to the motor? ill have to look at the casting again underneath the motor i know it was d0ae- i forget the digit on the side the block is d2ae-ca, it is definately a 4 bolt main, rods are d0ae-a and heads are d1ze - da, with screw in studs and guideplates? im not sure how to tell if they have been worked valves look original from my perspective


I didn't realize d1 were heads used on 72 q codes also and i believe now this is the original motor :)

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First off he said he would like to keep it between 1500-2000 range not 500.

 

I was trying to save him some money...no. I actually misread the post. I am surprised anyone here accept Q has a couple mega large to put into a motor.

 

WOW that statement is judgemental to say the least

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ok i appreicate all the responses, let me start off with this, im 22 i wasnt even thought of when these cars came out, so that right there puts me at a deficit, however i have researched these cars in and out and although i dont know everything i know a decent amount. but engine building is new to me, my 87 5.0 was worked when i bought it i have done some work like new valve springs etc and i understand most of the terms associated with engine building however i have never physically built one before, which i would like to do with this project, i was planning on just building the motor good enough to drive for now while i get the car painted etc, the budget proposed was just so i could get started it can be a slow build and that amount is not set in stone, im just seeing for the first 1500 or so i spend on the motor where should it go with what i already have, example many mentioned bottom end. i feel this is where i should spend my money. cash flow is tight until i graduate in may. so do i keep the rods? obviosuly new bearings pistons, and machine work done. i apppreciate alll of the info from the users who respected my question and are willing to help me learn. i would even give my nuimber to someone knowledgeable to talk to about these motors, i enjoy learning as much as a i can.

 

Don- is there a way to tell if the work has been done to the motor? ill have to look at the casting again underneath the motor i know it was d0ae- i forget the digit on the side the block is d2ae-ca, it is definately a 4 bolt main, rods are d0ae-a and heads are d1ze - da, with screw in studs and guideplates? im not sure how to tell if they have been worked valves look original from my perspective


I didn't realize d1 were heads used on 72 q codes also and i believe now this is the original motor :)

 

Properly reconditioned stock rods are fine at that power level. The nuts are the weak link. Use ARP nuts.

 

Do the valve stems have multiple grooves for the keepers or a single groove? Post some pics of the block so we can see the mains.

73 conv. 460, D0VE large valve heads, Performer RPM manifold, Voodoo 227/233 cam, Holley 950 HP carb, C6 trans, 3.25 trak-loc.

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I remember being in your shoes a long time ago. A realistic figure that can be accomplished here is your ability to spend 1500-2000 dollars and for the most part that will get you a very STOCK type rebuild that will make somewhere around 275-300 HP. Only some very experienced people with some machine work friends would be able to get the two numbers your looking for to work out. To get the 400 hp figure your looking for you will need to spend a bunch more green backs, you can blow your budget easily on a good set of cylinder heads which will get you the numbers your looking for! Dont be disappointed with your rebuild or wait for some more cash flow to get the numbers your hoping for. All the people you talk to will say they can make you these bigger numbers, or their car makes 500 hp It takes cubic dollars to get there my friend and I have been doing this for the past 35 years just want to help here, not pop your bubble! Good luck

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ok i appreicate all the responses, let me start off with this, im 22 i wasnt even thought of when these cars came out, so that right there puts me at a deficit, however i have researched these cars in and out and although i dont know everything i know a decent amount. but engine building is new to me, my 87 5.0 was worked when i bought it i have done some work like new valve springs etc and i understand most of the terms associated with engine building however i have never physically built one before, which i would like to do with this project, i was planning on just building the motor good enough to drive for now while i get the car painted etc, the budget proposed was just so i could get started it can be a slow build and that amount is not set in stone, im just seeing for the first 1500 or so i spend on the motor where should it go with what i already have, example many mentioned bottom end. i feel this is where i should spend my money. cash flow is tight until i graduate in may. so do i keep the rods? obviosuly new bearings pistons, and machine work done. i apppreciate alll of the info from the users who respected my question and are willing to help me learn. i would even give my nuimber to someone knowledgeable to talk to about these motors, i enjoy learning as much as a i can.

 

Don- is there a way to tell if the work has been done to the motor? ill have to look at the casting again underneath the motor i know it was d0ae- i forget the digit on the side the block is d2ae-ca, it is definately a 4 bolt main, rods are d0ae-a and heads are d1ze - da, with screw in studs and guideplates? im not sure how to tell if they have been worked valves look original from my perspective


I didn't realize d1 were heads used on 72 q codes also and i believe now this is the original motor :)

 

I think your really going to like this bunch here. Remeber. It's yours! build it in the manner that works best for you. As you can see. Help is but a post away.

2rr7aiv.png

 

Just cruising along minding our own business when BAM!!! The LAWS show up.

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If the valves are stock they will have ford in an oval on the face. If so you need new 1 piece valves as the originals were made in two pieces and then welded together and have a nasty habit of popping off and destroying the engine.

 

Economy in the right places is very understandable, but some things must be done right to have a reliable engine. This is one of those thing.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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D1ZE-da heads are OPEN chamber

That changes everything

 

Plus someone made them screw in studs - that work needs to be checked

 

The cars VIN will be stamped into the back of the block

Back LH corner under head on block

 

 

 

 

D1ZE-DA

 

71-72 351CJ

 

71 351C

Valves 2.19, 1.71

 

73-76cc (Open chamber)

 

In port 2.50 x 1.75

 

Ex port 2.00 x 1.74

 

D1ZZ-6049-C

Ohio Mustang Supply

440-949-2556

 

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Low quality pics sorry! The valves have the ford symbol on them

 

Number on block underneath by mains says D0AE-D

20121025_170705.jpg.2f7aeffcaf040040862190ade1af21b1.jpg

20121025_170835.jpg.ea77fd298e9eede7722a5fb5896d062c.jpg

20121025_171249.jpg.1632e3face9dc4358181092f989cd8cf.jpg

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Those valves will need to be replaced to be safe. Another member lost an engine recently to a set of factory ford cleveland valves :(

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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Those valves will need to be replaced to be safe. Another member lost an engine recently to a set of factory ford cleveland valves :(

 

Definately replace those valves or things can get ugly fast!!!

 

1zg80g0.png


Those valves will need to be replaced to be safe. Another member lost an engine recently to a set of factory ford cleveland valves :(

 

Definately replace those valves or things can get ugly fast!!!

 

1zg80g0.png

 

2jte1w.png

 

dm8i39.png

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.
https://youtu.be/SoW1fhaFPzY  Burn Out Video. 

 

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there is a small machione shop locally that the guy said he would re do each head for 250 each? 3 angle valve job and i forget what else new seatS? obviously i wanna put some higher quality valves in it for sure


Those valves will need to be replaced to be safe. Another member lost an engine recently to a set of factory ford cleveland valves :(

 

Definately replace those valves or things can get ugly fast!!!

 

1zg80g0.png


Those valves will need to be replaced to be safe. Another member lost an engine recently to a set of factory ford cleveland valves :(

 

o wow! valves are top of my list!

 

Definately replace those valves or things can get ugly fast!!!

 

1zg80g0.png

 

2jte1w.png

 

dm8i39.png

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