351 Cleveland Build

[cjstaci]

The air gap is currently installed on my iron-headed 351. I do have an extra torker for sale, however.

I have a stock 351 2v, the air gap would be best, but the torker , although not ideal, will work. I just want to swap to a 4 barrel and install headers. If it’s in clean condition and the price is right I would buy it. I was looking at new air gap manifolds and holy crap, they are in the 500 dollar range. Inflation stinks.

 

[basstrix]

I would recommend against a torker on 2v heads. Not sure, but don't think it would even seal.

Keep an eye on craigslist, facebook, ect....they pop up for reasonable price every so often.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

I have a completely rebuilt 351 Cleveland long block. It was a mild build to factory specs. It dynoed at a Max Horsepower of 244.3 at 4700 RPM and Max Torque of 313.5 at 3400 RPM. It was originally a mild build to go into my truck. But plans have changed and I now want it for my Mustang. There for I need to bump up the power quite a bit. The overall plans are for it to be a weekend racer but yet maintain good enough manners to be driven on the street occasionally. Not that I have any future plans to race it, but that is the overall theme of the car build and I need the motor to back up this look.

I purchased a set of 4V closed chamber heads. They came off a running and driving motor in a Pantera. The owner upgraded to aluminum heads and sold me his factory heads. They are date code D0AE and D1AE. According to the previous owner, the heads were freshly gone through 5 years ago and have very few miles on them. This seems to be backed up by the condition of the heads. Very clean and no noticeable wear. They have the standard non adjustable rocker arm pedestals. And here is where my first questions come in. I plan to get the heads machined to accept a 7/16" stud and guide plates. The end goal is to put full roller rockers on these heads. Not that I need them, but i happen to have a set and would like the reduced friction of the roller rockers. When I search ARP rocker studs for the 351 Cleveland, many different options come up. I'm not an engine builder and need guidance on this. Are there a specific set of studs I should be looking at? Are there other factors to consider when purchasing the new studs? Do I have to get specific ones to keep my valve train angles correct? Please help me with information to ensure I get the correct studs the first time. I'm pretty sure the 7/16" ones are what I need. But from there, I'm lost.

I appreciate any help you guys can provide.

Is your engine presently equipped with 2 barrel open chamber heads?

 

[cjstaci]

Is your engine presently equipped with 2 barrel open chamber heads?

Yes. It’s a 1973 H code

 

[cjstaci]

I would recommend against a torker on 2v heads. Not sure, but don't think it would even seal.

Keep an eye on craigslist, facebook, ect....they pop up for reasonable price every so often.

Currently on eBay there’s a used air gap but for about $90 more I can buy it new. Weiand has their Action plus dual plane for just under 300 which would be okay but I believe they are now made offshore, I am not enthused about that. There are offshore knock offs of the airgap for around 150, but I can’t see using one of those. I may just need to bite the bullet and buy a new edlebrock.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

Yes. It’s a 1973 H code

What cam did you run when you dynoed it? I managed over 300 HP @ 4600 rpm and my torque was 357 @ 3600 rpm using the original 2 barrel open chamber heads. I have a Comp flat tappet cam with a grind similar to the 71 CJ cam. I have a 72 H code.

Ron

 

[Ron Tanzi]

I have a stock 351 2v, the air gap would be best, but the torker , although not ideal, will work. I just want to swap to a 4 barrel and install headers. If it’s in clean condition and the price is right I would buy it. I was looking at new air gap manifolds and holy crap, they are in the 500 dollar range. Inflation stinks.

Inflation does stink. I think I have the solution to it. Vote out you know who.

 

[cjstaci]

I found a new 2750 edlebrock performer on eBay for $325 including tax and shipping. The guy that had it bought it for a project that he ended up selling. It’s not an air gap but it should be fine for a stock eng.
I have looked at some of the posts on intake gaskets and I see varying opinions on what type of gasket to use. I am also wondering if it’s worth blocking the heat riser. I did that with my iron head CJ and it seems like after driving for a while it becomes heat soaked and I get a noticeable change in the way it runs.

 

[cjstaci]

Here’s the manifold.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

I have a 2750 on my engine with a Holley 4160 (that I converted to a 4150 by adding a sec metering block) 600 cfm vacuum secondary. I like the set up I have. I did not block the exhaust cross over under the Carb. When I first installed the manifold I left the crossover blocked and it did not run well cold. I modified the second set of intake gaskets to open the crossover ports back up. It warms up fast and you can drive it in like 2 minutes. I live in RI and there are a lot of cold days in the spring and fall. I do get heat soak at times (when starting it hot after sitting) which I think is made worse by the 10% ethanol crap gas we are stuck with evaporating. I used Fel Pro printo seal intake gaskets which people have had issues with leaks around the intake ports. I used Right stuff in place of the cork end seals. I have had no issues.

Ron

 

[basstrix]

I have looked at some of the posts on intake gaskets and I see varying opinions on what type of gasket to use. I am also wondering if it’s worth blocking the heat riser. I did that with my iron head CJ and it seems like after driving for a while it becomes heat soaked and I get a noticeable change in the way it runs.

As I understand it, you're running 2v heads. The intake you bought is intended for 2v heads, so just use the gasket they recommend......bottom line is it needs to be a 2v gasket. The pan style gaskets are fine, but you'll need to make sure the bottom of intake and pan do not interfere. Edelbrock recommends #7625 with this intake.

If you're build is performance oriented and/or you live a in warmer to hot climate, I'd block the exhaust crossover....if you're more of a stock build or in a cooler/cold climate, leave it open.

 

[cjstaci]

I’m in las cruces, nm. Winter nights are cold, but day temps are in the 50’s, spring, summer and fall are pretty warm here, 80-100 degrees. It’s all stock right now. I was planning to use this manifold with a 4150 600 cfm Holley and add headers. The heat crossover would be nice in the winter but not so much the rest of the year. I am retired now, so it’s not a commuter car. I am thinking it would be best to block it off, although the doesn’t have ac, so I don’t think I will be driving it when it above 80 degrees. I will probably add vintage air to it but until then I’ll be using one of my other cars,

 

[Spike Morelli]

Just a reminder for those who want to block their cyl head heat risers, but wants choke operation for cold weather. Use an electric choke. I am a bit puzzled with those who are talking about experiencing "heat soak". I've been driving my Mach for 34 years now, and I tow my boats with the car, so you can assume it's in a warm climate when I use the boats, and I have never experienced "heat soak" with my engine, which is stock, and has open heat risers, stock intake and carb. Pulling a load and pulling hills, you'd think I would be building heat under the hood, but no, I haven't had issues with regard to fuel system "heat soak". What I have run into, is "heat soak" of the starter, being close enough to the headpipe to affect it's operation after pulling a load and building heat there. The fix was a cheap heat wrap blanket, I think I got it from Summit or Jegs, wrapped my starter, and never had a problem starting hot again.

 

[TommyK]

I’m in las cruces, nm. Winter nights are cold, but day temps are in the 50’s, spring, summer and fall are pretty warm here, 80-100 degrees. It’s all stock right now. I was planning to use this manifold with a 4150 600 cfm Holley and add headers. The heat crossover would be nice in the winter but not so much the rest of the year. I am retired now, so it’s not a commuter car. I am thinking it would be best to block it off, although the doesn’t have ac, so I don’t think I will be driving it when it above 80 degrees. I will probably add vintage air to it but until then I’ll be using one of my other cars,

You can block off the heat crossover with a piece of metal shim material and then drill a small hole in it to retain some manifold heat to help with cold weather operation.

 

[basstrix]

I’m in las cruces, nm. Winter nights are cold, but day temps are in the 50’s, spring, summer and fall are pretty warm here, 80-100 degrees. It’s all stock right now. I was planning to use this manifold with a 4150 600 cfm Holley and add headers. The heat crossover would be nice in the winter but not so much the rest of the year. I am retired now, so it’s not a commuter car. I am thinking it would be best to block it off, although the doesn’t have ac, so I don’t think I will be driving it when it above 80 degrees. I will probably add vintage air to it but until then I’ll be using one of my other cars,

Not to hijack the thread, but I grew up over the hill from where you're at and lived in LC a few years. My air gap setup runs cold, here in Phx, it would be worse where you are.

 

[cjstaci]

After reading everyone’s comments, I think I will leave it open. Currently it has the stock 2 bbl and I haven’t had any issues.

 

[Manu Mach1]

Also, does anyone know why these heads have this spacer looking thing under the valve spring? View attachment 84552
View attachment 84553
It is not present on all locations. So I’m curious if these are shims of some sort. I believe they were under all intake springs and only about half the exhaust springs.

I read somewhere that those shims are used on aluminium heads...

 

[basstrix]

I read somewhere that those shims are used on aluminium heads...

Aluminum heads will use either a Spring Cup or Locater, depending on the space available. They are typically hardened steel.

If the question was regarding what's in the screen capture, below, that's a valve spring shim used to set the desired valve spring installed height. When valve and seat faces are reconditioned, the keeper grooves (on valve stem) move away from the spring seat. These can be used to restore the original distance or to tailor the distance to suit the valve springs being used.