351C Cooling issues / oil pressure

[digithead]

Dear Lord, talk about 1 thing leading to another. So when I bought the car, the temp gauge did not work, but the PO scabbed in a digital readout water temp hidden in ashtray. It would read 150F. So I removed all his cobbled work, and put in all new triple gauges. New AutoMeter gauges read 75PSI, 14Volt, and 150F. I got a new thermostat today, and open car and removed old one. Lo and behold, he's got wrong style for 351C and a 160F. So I read a ton of your posts and went with 180 (hell its gotta be better then 150!!). I drain some coolant down before I do the work. Its draining orange. I am scratching my head. I get up and open radiator and look in again. Its clearly a perfect green up there! WTH. I have driven it enough that is should be all mixed up to at least one color, wouldnt it? New aluminum radiators use orange, so which is it? Do I drain it all and go back to green? Or is it new radiator that makes it use orange? When I had top radiator hose off, it appears copper at least that nipple into the main body of radiator.

In pix, old tsat is on the left. My new STANT is on the right. Thanks

 

[barnett468]

If the rad is aluminum and the inlet fitting is copper color, it might be stains from rust or possibly sealer . I have never seen coolant stain a radiator.

The t stat on the left is a high flow . The one on the right is a low flow and budget model and it doesn't even look like it is fully closed . If your temps do not run from 180 to around 187 with that one, I would change it . In your particular case, if it runs higher than around 185, the "hat" seal is likely not sealing properly.

 

[digithead]

One on left was in car and rock solid steady at 150F on 2 gauges and verified with IR thermometer checking it after I got home. One on right, in this pic, is brand new Stant out of box before its been in the car. Its a 180F.


Car was running steady at a cold 150 if I wasnt making that clear. THat was my reason to pull and check the tstat.

 

[barnett468]

One on left was in car and rock solid steady at 150F on 2 gauges and verified with IR thermometer checking it after I got home. One on right, in this pic, is brand new Stant out of box before its been in the car. Its a 180F.


Car was running steady at a cold 150 if I wasnt making that clear. THat was my reason to pull and check the tstat.

Thanks but your post was well written and perfectly clear . The new low flow t stat with the stamped "hat" on it might cause a prob which is why i mentioned it . even though it ran at 150 with the high flow t stat, it could run higher than the t stat rating if it is a low flow which is why i mentioned that, however, based on your description, i doubt you will have a problem.

 

[digithead]

I am curious because the STANT 180 part number I purchased was one recommended here by a number of people. I will run it for awhile and take more readings and see what she runs. Gotta be hotter then 150 that was way too cold.


The number 330-160 stamped on side seems to make old one a Flowkooler brand. But it was

dead on at 150 on a digital dash gauge and 150 on my brand new AutoMeter with brand new sender.

Plus the IR handheld showed 150 as well.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bra-330-160

 

[barnett468]

I drain some coolant down before I do the work. Its draining orange. I am scratching my head. I get up and open radiator and look in again. Its clearly a perfect green up there! WTH. I have driven it enough that is should be all mixed up to at least one color, wouldnt it? New aluminum radiators use orange, so which is it? Do I drain it all and go back to green? Or is it new radiator that makes it use orange?

Yes it "should" all be mixed and not a different color on the bottom by the drain than it is at the top . I have no explanation for this other than the orange color at the bottom was simply rust sediment that had colored the green antifreeze orange.

If you drain some that is orange colored into a clear glass then let the glass sit for several hours, the rust will settle to the bottom where you can see it if there is any, and the actual color of the antifreeze should be on the top of the glass . If there is no sediment after 12 hours, there is no rust particles in the sample.

I use the regular green colored old school anti freeze in all cars that do not specify a special type like many of the newer cars do . The green stuff is ethylene glycol and has additives like silicates to protect all types of rads including aluminum ones, however, I also prefer to install a sacrificial anode to eliminate potential damage from electrolysis when using this fluid . Some of the newer fluids claim they are designed to do this so a sacrificial anode will serve no purpose if these other fluids are used.

They sell radiator caps with these anodes attached and also sell ones that screw into some drain fillings.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mustang+sacrificial+anode+images&biw=1093&bih=504&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih65TN_ebLAhUB82MKHSitDckQsAQIGw

If you buy straight anti freeze, you can mix it with demineralized water, deionzed, distilled water, purified water or Reverse Osmosis water if you want . This will help it last a little longer and is basically what the coolant mfg's use in their premixed ones

I would consider just draining all the current fluid then filling it up with straight water and running it for a few minutes then draining that then installing the anti freeze of your choice so you know its fresh and all the same etc . Running the engine for a short time with straight water will not damage anything and I have even known several people that did just that for years, although over time it will allow corrosion and probably premature water pump bearing failure.

.

 

[EBSTANG]

I am curious because the STANT 180 part number I purchased was one recommended here by a number of people. I will run it for awhile and take more readings and see what she runs. Gotta be hotter then 150 that was way too cold.


The number 330-160 stamped on side seems to make old one a Flowkooler brand. But it was

dead on at 150 on a digital dash gauge and 150 on my brand new AutoMeter with brand new sender.

Plus the IR handheld showed 150 as well.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bra-330-160

Very important question...before going any further...what make (stock ford, weiand, edelbrock, flowkooler...)water pump is currently on this car?

 

[barnett468]

Here's one of the problems with the parts they sell . These are both aftermarket t stats . The hat on the one on the left is installed deeper than the one on the left plus it is crooked . Poor fitting and/or poor operating factory parts is also what occasionally plagued this system when the cars were brand new.

I just get rid of the stock system and use a bypass plate or plug the factory bypass plate with a freeze plug with a 1/8" hole in it then use a Windsor high flow t stat and drill 4 small holes around the perimeter of the t stat . If you have an unmodified Weiand pump you have to do another mod which EBSTANG will possibly explain . He posted a lot of good info along with myself and others on a thread recently regarding this area of the Cleveland.

 

[jbojo]

I am running the 180* Thermostat on the right and my motor gets to about 182* max. I thought that I read somewhere that the Clevelands liked the temp around 192* and that is what they originally came with. Since I run it in an area where its around 100 in the summer I thought I would go with the 180* one but I have been rethinking that and may go to 192 to get better heat in the winter when I am able to drive it.

The AMA doc says that the motor came with a thermostat that operated between 188 and 195* and fully open at 212* (1973 car).

 

[barnett468]

I am running the 180* Thermostat on the right and my motor gets to about 182* max. I thought that I read somewhere that the Clevelands liked the temp around 192* and that is what they originally came with. Since I run it in an area where its around 100 in the summer I thought I would go with the 180* one but I have been rethinking that and may go to 192 to get better heat in the winter when I am able to drive it.

The AMA doc says that the motor came with a thermostat that operated between 188 and 195* and fully open at 212* (1973 car).

Most older cars that I know of, or at least post 1964 cars, came with a 192 t stat and there are several reasons for this.

1. A hotter engine can be jetted leaner thereby increasing mileage slightly which also reduces emissions.

2. An engine that runs at 190 for example, will also wear less than one that runs at a cooler temp for various reasons.

ENGINE WEAR TESTS

https://www.google.com/search?q=engine+wear+vs+temperature&biw=1093&bih=504&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy7ubZi-fLAhXItoMKHXvEAzMQsAQIGw&dpr=1.25

Your heater will definitely be hotter with just a 12 degrees t stat . Been there, done that.


.

.

No edit button for some reason so I had to make another post to correct a comment.

Your heater will definitely be hotter with just a 12 degree hotter t stat . Been there, done that.

 

[EBSTANG]

I am running the 180* Thermostat on the right and my motor gets to about 182* max. I thought that I read somewhere that the Clevelands liked the temp around 192* and that is what they originally came with. Since I run it in an area where its around 100 in the summer I thought I would go with the 180* one but I have been rethinking that and may go to 192 to get better heat in the winter when I am able to drive it.

The AMA doc says that the motor came with a thermostat that operated between 188 and 195* and fully open at 212* (1973 car).

John, aren't you running electric rad fans?

 

[jbojo]

I am running the 180* Thermostat on the right and my motor gets to about 182* max. I thought that I read somewhere that the Clevelands liked the temp around 192* and that is what they originally came with. Since I run it in an area where its around 100 in the summer I thought I would go with the 180* one but I have been rethinking that and may go to 192 to get better heat in the winter when I am able to drive it.

The AMA doc says that the motor came with a thermostat that operated between 188 and 195* and fully open at 212* (1973 car).

John, aren't you running electric rad fans?

Yes, they are set to come on at 185 and 190*. The digital readout shows 182* avg and the temp gauge on the gauge cluster is just under the first mark through out the drive. I feel the motor never warms up so that's why I am thinking of going to a 192* tstat.

 

[EBSTANG]

I am running the 180* Thermostat on the right and my motor gets to about 182* max. I thought that I read somewhere that the Clevelands liked the temp around 192* and that is what they originally came with. Since I run it in an area where its around 100 in the summer I thought I would go with the 180* one but I have been rethinking that and may go to 192 to get better heat in the winter when I am able to drive it.

The AMA doc says that the motor came with a thermostat that operated between 188 and 195* and fully open at 212* (1973 car).

John, aren't you running electric rad fans?

Yes, they are set to come on at 185 and 190*. The digital readout shows 182* avg and the temp gauge on the gauge cluster is just under the first mark through out the drive. I feel the motor never warms up so that's why I am thinking of going to a 192* tstat.

Not to get too off topic or jack this thread but the painless wiring dual fan controller lets me set a temp to turn both fans on, initially, at 50% of their max CFM. The second setting is the spread. With my 180° thermostat, I want the temp to hover between 185° to 198°.(just like you- why I asked you the electric fan question) So I adjust the second setting, the point at which the fans will gradually reach 100% CFM. With a little testing 5-10 minutes of your time, I can adjust it so my fans go on 50% CFM @ 190° and their speed will increase gradually reaching 100% CFM, just as my temp reaches 198° and immediately it will drop back down to 185°. This keeps my full flow (skirted) thermostat open (the bypass closed, skirt sealing bypass washer- really now open only during warm up, as the original engineers intended) and allows full coolant flow through the radiator and allows my high flow FlowKooler water pump to give great circulation through my block/heads.

Up until it reaches 185°, no fans are on at all. (I love that) Being able to adjust air flow through the radiator (heat dissipation) is key in managing the system. The technology exists today and it is wonderful! Sitting in traffic in the summer heat is stress free! I can let it sit for hours and it never goes outside of those parameters, unless I want it to. I know Barnett is thinking, all good till your electric fans fail, (no disrespect intended) and yes all things can fail but I'll worry about that then, if it ever happens.

 

[jbojo]

The fans have their own relays so if 1 fan fails you always have a backup to get you home . Yeah, I was also toying with the idea of raising the set points on my fans, I might try that first, thx.

 

[EBSTANG]

The fans have their own relays so if 1 fan fails you always have a backup to get you home . Yeah, I was also toying with the idea of raising the set points on my fans, I might try that first, thx.

Yeah, I like the 180° tstat, that way you'll keep your thermostat open/ bypass closed/coolant circulating, once she's warmed up. With the 192° tstat, even if you regulate engine temp with your fans to be at that ideal 192-195° temp you, and I, have read about, you'd have the tstat opening and closing. Intuitively, it makes sense, to me anyway, to have full coolant flow evening out temps all throughout the engine. Without the electric fans, we used to be dependent on tstat to regulate temp which didn't react/regulate as quickly and the up & down swings were (potentially) much broader.

 

[barnett468]

I know Barnett is thinking, all good till your electric fans fail, (no disrespect intended) and yes all things can fail but I'll worry about that then, if it ever happens.

I have put electric fans on countless builds . They are the best thing to use in hot climates, plus they take less hp to run . I also have a AAA card which gets me 4 free tows a year.

.

 

[EBSTANG]

I know Barnett is thinking, all good till your electric fans fail, (no disrespect intended) and yes all things can fail but I'll worry about that then, if it ever happens.

I have put electric fans on countless builds . They are the best thing to use in hot climates, plus they take less hp to run . I also have a AAA card which gets me 4 free tows a year.

.

Exactly my thinking, buddy. Towing is included in my insurance, if it's ever needed.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

I had an electric fan failure-my blade simply disappeared! Only had a cooling problem sitting still, but I try and stay away from heavy traffic anyway.

Been planning on a AAA membership- 4 tows a year . . . that sounds about right. lol

 

[digithead]

I drain some coolant down before I do the work. Its draining orange. I am scratching my head. I get up and open radiator and look in again. Its clearly a perfect green up there! WTH. I have driven it enough that is should be all mixed up to at least one color, wouldnt it? New aluminum radiators use orange, so which is it? Do I drain it all and go back to green? Or is it new radiator that makes it use orange?

Yes it "should" all be mixed and not a different color on the bottom by the drain than it is at the top . I have no explanation for this other than the orange color at the bottom was simply rust sediment that had colored the green antifreeze orange.

If you drain some that is orange colored into a clear glass then let the glass sit for several hours, the rust will settle to the bottom where you can see it if there is any, and the actual color of the antifreeze should be on the top of the glass . If there is no sediment after 12 hours, there is no rust particles in the sample.

I use the regular green colored old school anti freeze in all cars that do not specify a special type like many of the newer cars do . The green stuff is ethylene glycol and has additives like silicates to protect all types of rads including aluminum ones, however, I also prefer to install a sacrificial anode to eliminate potential damage from electrolysis when using this fluid . Some of the newer fluids claim they are designed to do this so a sacrificial anode will serve no purpose if these other fluids are used.

They sell radiator caps with these anodes attached and also sell ones that screw into some drain fillings.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mustang+sacrificial+anode+images&biw=1093&bih=504&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih65TN_ebLAhUB82MKHSitDckQsAQIGw

If you buy straight anti freeze, you can mix it with demineralized water, deionzed, distilled water, purified water or Reverse Osmosis water if you want . This will help it last a little longer and is basically what the coolant mfg's use in their premixed ones

I would consider just draining all the current fluid then filling it up with straight water and running it for a few minutes then draining that then installing the anti freeze of your choice so you know its fresh and all the same etc . Running the engine for a short time with straight water will not damage anything and I have even known several people that did just that for years, although over time it will allow corrosion and probably premature water pump bearing failure.

.

THanks, thats what I will do. Its cheap safe bet so at least I know what I have since car is new to me.