4r70w swap with ford explore driveshaft

[sdstang]

I'm planing on doing a FMX to 4r70w swap in my 73 vert and I was suggested that I can used the drive shaft out of a 2WD 2000-2004 ford explorer. Just need to get a transition u-joint. Does that sound right?

Also,

anyone with the same setup know if I can still use long tube headers?

Thanks for any input!

 

[Qcode351mach]

I just pulled the trigger today on the parts I need for my 4r70w swap...Baumann Quick 1 controller--Hpf-2a harness--TPS-2kit--TransGo aode-hd2--I already have the fmx flexplate..& I had spoke to Kevin at Baumann Nice guy & pretty knowledgeable. I also have the Crites c-6 crossmember which should work..I also ordered the pa/performance aod shift linkage setup which will allow the use of the stock shifter setup..As far as the drive shaft I already have a custom aluminum one that was on the car when it had the c-6 (big c-6) 429 Looking at the lengths of the 4r70w & the big c-6 they are pretty close so I'm thinking a simple yoke change at the front may do it..If not then I will send it out & have it fitted. Your best bet is have everything installed..then take your measurements..this way you know what to look for. I'm going to use the hooker comps on my mine They show fits with an c-6 fmx the 4r70w is about the same foot print

 

[sdstang]

Scott,

Where did you get the trany? What year mustang. Someone said that the later versions have improved TB but also converted to to electronic speedometer and that I need to stay away from those 2002:2004 maybe. Also, I was told to try and stay with the stock converter. What direction did you go with that as well?

I have a vert so I'm a little wooried about the crossover plat that the coupes don't have to deal with.

Thanks

Jim

 

[Qcode351mach]

Scott,

Where did you get the trany? What year mustang. Someone said that the later versions have improved TB but also converted to to electronic speedometer and that I need to stay away from those 2002:2004 maybe. Also, I was told to try and stay with the stock converter. What direction did you go with that as well?

I have a vert so I'm a little wooried about the crossover plat that the coupes don't have to deal with.

Thanks

Jim

Jim,

took a bit of searching on craigslist but diligence paid off & I scored one from a totaled 2001 v6 mustang with the stock converter which should be fine from what I've researched..I checked the fit on the fmx flexplate fits perfect. I did speak to baumann today about the speedo setup since this tranny had a cover plate on it where the cable would go. I gave them the numbers off the tranny & they said I could go either way cable or electronic since all 4r70w's have the speed sensor built in..I like the idea of the electronic speedo & the quick1 controller is already setup for it. Heres some great info that should help you

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/page2.shtml

 

[sdstang]

Thanks Scott,

Please give updates as you progress.

-Jim

 

[Totalled]

A 1995-01 at least explorer would use 1330 series joints. Most mustangs used a 1310 joint. That would be the reason for a conversion joint... at the rear end. Unless you swapped your yoke or swapped to an 8.8.

 

[turtle5353]

A 1995-01 at least explorer would use 1330 series joints. Most mustangs used a 1310 joint. That would be the reason for a conversion joint... at the rear end. Unless you swapped your yoke or swapped to an 8.8.

The 8.8 out of the explorers are a nice swap. 3.73 gears, posi, and disc brakes all in one shot. Ive had mine in for a few years now with 0 troubles.

 

[Mesozoic]

So what actually works here for a driveshaft and speedometer cable?

I've heard you can use a regular VSS sensor and simply remove the plastic cap on it that exposes a receptacle for the square cable end needed to drive a mechanical speedo. This guy with a '72 LTD swapped a 4R and did it:

I had to remove the plug at the end of the VSS and drill the hole out to fit the original mechanical speedo cable into it. The VSS has a square drive in it that drives the speedo cable. I used GPS to verify the speedometer was accurate (tried a few different gears to get there).

I haven't even looked into the driveshaft situation, but I was thinking of simply replacing the yoke at the 4R end of my existing shaft. If the Explorer stuff is a viable option or better fit, I'd love to hear about it.

 

[Qcode351mach]

So what actually works here for a driveshaft and speedometer cable?

I've heard you can use a regular VSS sensor and simply remove the plastic cap on it that exposes a receptacle for the square cable end needed to drive a mechanical speedo. This guy with a '72 LTD swapped a 4R and did it:

I had to remove the plug at the end of the VSS and drill the hole out to fit the original mechanical speedo cable into it. The VSS has a square drive in it that drives the speedo cable. I used GPS to verify the speedometer was accurate (tried a few different gears to get there).

I haven't even looked into the driveshaft situation, but I was thinking of simply replacing the yoke at the 4R end of my existing shaft. If the Explorer stuff is a viable option or better fit, I'd love to hear about it.

As I said if you get 2001 4r70w you should have both options using the vss with a electronic speedo or a mechanical..I removed the cap plug on mine & it goes straight through no need to drill..As far as driveshaft.. You need the 4r70w slip yoke at the front http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/p229_dana_spicer_2_3_14061x_slip_yoke_fits_4r70w_auto_transmissio.html

Having diagnosed quite a few driveline vibration issues over the years it always seems to come down to a out of balance or tweaked driveshaft. To be frank why futz around with a used piece of junk that who knows how many times it was dropped or how it was stored. A junkie is going to bang you a 100.00 for a used one. I had a brand new one made by Dennys http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/index.html for my conversion. ZERO DRIVELINE VIBRATION FLAWLESS. FIT PERFECT. This is one of things in my mind thats worth spending a few more bucks upfront for piece of mind zero aggravation factor.

 

[Mesozoic]

So what actually works here for a driveshaft and speedometer cable?

I've heard you can use a regular VSS sensor and simply remove the plastic cap on it that exposes a receptacle for the square cable end needed to drive a mechanical speedo. This guy with a '72 LTD swapped a 4R and did it:

I had to remove the plug at the end of the VSS and drill the hole out to fit the original mechanical speedo cable into it. The VSS has a square drive in it that drives the speedo cable. I used GPS to verify the speedometer was accurate (tried a few different gears to get there).

I haven't even looked into the driveshaft situation, but I was thinking of simply replacing the yoke at the 4R end of my existing shaft. If the Explorer stuff is a viable option or better fit, I'd love to hear about it.

As I said if you get 2001 4r70w you should have both options using the vss with a electronic speedo or a mechanical..I removed the cap plug on mine & it goes straight through no need to drill..As far as driveshaft.. You need the 4r70w slip yoke at the front http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/p229_dana_spicer_2_3_14061x_slip_yoke_fits_4r70w_auto_transmissio.html

Having diagnosed quite a few driveline vibration issues over the years it always seems to come down to a out of balance or tweaked driveshaft. To be frank why futz around with a used piece of junk that who knows how many times it was dropped or how it was stored. A junkie is going to bang you a 100.00 for a used one. I had a brand new one made by Dennys http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/index.html for my conversion. ZERO DRIVELINE VIBRATION FLAWLESS. FIT PERFECT. This is one of things in my mind thats worth spending a few more bucks upfront for piece of mind zero aggravation factor.

I'll look into Denny's, although I know a local guy who built me a driveshaft for my old Bronco and it's also got zero driveline vibration. He uses Neapco joints so I can regrease things regularly and been quite happy with it. I might just have him weld me a new 4R yoke on my existing driveshaft, but that's further down the road.

I pulled the speedo cable and VSS sensor from a '93 5.0 Mustang with an AOD. The VSS fits the 4R perfectly, but I'm not sure if the instrument panel end of the Fox speedo cable will match the '71 Mustang's speedo.

 

[InjectedMach]

I have found the 4R up to mid 2003 had the provision for the driven speedo its just covered with a blind plastic plug on the tail housing. Remove it and shine a light or stick your finger in the hole and you will either feel a smooth output shaft or worm drive splines made into the output shaft. And they have both the VSS sensor and speedo drive as Ford used up what they had of the older output shafts and had to support the coming electronics as well.

I have used the 2000 to 2002 2wd explorer driveshafts with great success. Long yoke 9" 1310,1330 and 1350 applications. Some require a transition u-joint. I am a fan of non re grease style as my driveline shop pointed out to me that they are made to closer tolerances and are stronger for HD use as there is no hole drilled into the cross for a Zerk fittings and grease paths, but its only my preference and there is no ring of slung grease on the tunnel.

 

[Mesozoic]

I have found the 4R up to mid 2003 had the provision for the driven speedo its just covered with a blind plastic plug on the tail housing. Remove it and shine a light or stick your finger in the hole and you will either feel a smooth output shaft or worm drive splines made into the output shaft. And they have both the VSS sensor and speedo drive as Ford used up what they had of the older output shafts and had to support the coming electronics as well.

I have used the 2000 to 2002 2wd explorer driveshafts with great success. Long yoke 9" 1310,1330 and 1350 applications. Some require a transition u-joint. I am a fan of non re grease style as my driveline shop pointed out to me that they are made to closer tolerances and are stronger for HD use as there is no hole drilled into the cross for a Zerk fittings and grease paths, but its only my preference and there is no ring of slung grease on the tunnel.

Surely, the '00-02 2WD Exploder driveshafts are not a drop in affair, right? You have to modify the axle end yoke to match whatever's in there, right? 1310 joints, most likely for a stock 9" rear. What about the length? Does it need to be lengthened or shortened?

 

[InjectedMach]

nope its a drop in once you change the ujoint on the chunk side. They are the correct length 50-5" for a 351C with a 4R70W and LONG snout rear end yoke. The exploders use a flange to yoke style deal so you throw that away and use the correct transition U joint for your yoke weather it is a 1310, 1330 or 1350. OR so it has been my experience 4 times now

 

[Mesozoic]

nope its a drop in once you change the ujoint on the chunk side. They are the correct length 50-5" for a 351C with a 4R70W and LONG snout rear end yoke. The exploders use a flange to yoke style deal so you throw that away and use the correct transition U joint for your yoke weather it is a 1310, 1330 or 1350. OR so it has been my experience 4 times now

I see. I ended up using a late model '01 Mustang 3.8L V6 extension housing. I have the original 9" rear and a 351W (uses the same motor mounts as the 351C did). I'm probably better of measuring my existing driveshaft and modifying the trans yoke side with the 4R yoke.

 

[InjectedMach]

Ill say this, measure center of cup to the output splines on your trans with the car on the ground under its own weight and Im pretty sure you wight come up with a 50.5 to 51.5 value and the explorer is still a great option for you. All I use are 3.8 4R70W's they are bulletproof.

I have used 4 explorer driveshafts with these swaps and it come up correct length. Too long and when you jack up the car the driveshaft cant be removed as the axle moves forward. Either way I am sure you will find solution that suits your needs.

 

[Qcode351mach]

Ill say this, measure center of cup to the output splines on your trans with the car on the ground under its own weight and Im pretty sure you wight come up with a 50.5 to 51.5 value and the explorer is still a great option for you. All I use are 3.8 4R70W's they are bulletproof.

I have used 4 explorer driveshafts with these swaps and it come up correct length. Too long and when you jack up the car the driveshaft cant be removed as the axle moves forward. Either way I am sure you will find solution that suits your needs.

Your correct when I measured for mine it was 51.5 & The 3.8 is the way to go.

 

[Mesozoic]

Ok, well I will look into procuring an Explorer 2WD driveshaft. Thanks for the info!

Are you folks praising the 4R70W out of a 3.8L V6? The bellhousing is correct, but I thought the transmission lacks a clutch plate or something, making it slip easier than the V8 versions. In any case, mine started as a unit from a 3.8L V6, but now as 8 clutches or something. It also has some weird combination of the J-mod and a B&M shift kit. It has a '96 internal soft wire harness along with '96 electronics since my computer is an EEC-V from '96. I used the B&M 4R70W linkage kit since I'm using a B&M Megashifter inside the car. The torque converter is a 3-disc 10" unit with 3000 RPM stall from FB Performance in New York.

Still figuring out the crossmember issue. Need to get under there and sort it out!

 

[InjectedMach]

I pump 550 flywheel hp from a 355 Cleveland comp roller cam, roller rockers, MassfloEfi, edel. Aluminum heads Through a $250 junkyard 3.8 V6 50K mile unit STOCK converter to a 3.70 true trac 9" with 15X10 magnums. I did the Baumann valve body upgrade which is a must and use program level 3 in the setup for 5 years and 2 sets of BFG TA's.

The valve body upgrade takes care of clamping pressure on the clutch packs and allows crown victoria smoothness when adult driven(right). Fluid beautiful red and smells great.

30 foot marks going to 2nd at 44 and chirp(usually left tire) at 80 going 3rd.

Dont believe the naysayers, I know the 6cyl. units are great.

"Ya'll" may not praise the 3.8's but I surely do - 1 disc less and all.

Think about it, they were never used for Towing( a small trailer on .001% of the cars by owners, hardly raced, severely Undervalued(great for us) PLENTIFUL and outlasts the cars they were put in. The bell housing fits 289/302/351W/351C and can even be adapted to 429/460 blocks, the torque converters are strong as an Ox and they bolt right in too. 90% of the time you use your own starter you had before this is One of the rare wins for us - the little guy.

I have used them even with 80K on them and a fluid and filter change later its in and for $300 how could one possibly go wrong.......just my outlook.

 

[Mesozoic]

I'm now becoming interested in putting a 4R behind the 400M (big block bellhousing) in my '79 Bronco. The C6 is a great transmission, but the lack of OD really sucks!