72 Intermeccanica Squire SS-100

[ericpmasters]

Hi all,

Recently acquired my next project, which is a 1972 Intermeccanica Squire SS-100. It is #4 of only 50 ever made. To keep a long story short, this car came with a lot of 72' Mustang parts, it has the 4.1L 250ci Straight 6.

The car is being restored currently, and I am looking into what my options for suspension are. I have a good general knowledge for this type of work, but this car was fairly "jig-sawed" and has many components from other cars when it was produced. The rear end is a 9" Ford with fore & aft leaf springs. The front end has Ford "A" arms but the suspension is a torsion bar design built by Frank Reisner of Intermeccanica.

If I were to switch to a different suspension, I am curious as to how I would go about switching from torsion bar, to say a coil over. As I do not really have strut towers, this is where I start losing my direction. Would I have to make a custom strut mount? Is it worth it? Would there be a huge difference from torsion bar to coil over? Suspension isn't my strong point. One of the reasons for switching is, there are no replacement parts for this car, so if the torsion bar or anything ever went bad or anything happened to it, I would have to have a new one machined custom and there are no parts to reference.

I have attached pictures below of the front suspension setup. I would love any opinion towards some potential route's to go with this. I'm sure you all have much more knowledge regarding Ford's and this type of stuff, as I am used to working on VW/Audi applications.

Thanks for any information or opinions you may have!

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[Don C]

It appears to me that the reason he went with the torsion bar suspension is the lack of space under the fender for any type of coil springs. It looks to me like there are geometric issues with the different angles on the upper and lower control arms, causing camber changes whenever the suspension is compressed or extended.

I would look at Mustang 2 suspensions, there might be a way to fit one of them in there. Would probably require some fabrication/customization.

 

[ericpmasters]

It appears to me that the reason he went with the torsion bar suspension is the lack of space under the fender for any type of coil springs. It looks to me like there are geometric issues with the different angles on the upper and lower control arms, causing camber changes whenever the suspension is compressed or extended.

I would look at Mustang 2 suspensions, there might be a way to fit one of them in there. Would probably require some fabrication/customization.

Yeah that sounds correct, I'm unsure if I want to get into that much custom fab work to make it happen, if it won't be all that beneficial in the end.

 

[Don C]

I believe there is the possibility of some real handling improvements with a Mustang 2 front suspension. The M-2s had very good geometry.

 

[caspianwendell]

+1 on the mustang II setup, BTW great looking car

 

[detritusmaximus]

I'd be hesitant to start reengineering a car that they only made 50 of. Have you tried sourcing the the Alfa Romeo truck torsion bars from Europe? This guy might have some leads: http://www.alfastop.co.uk/.

The Alfa people are just as fanatical about saving old parts as anyone has a right to be, so chances are good that what you need is out there.

This site might be able to shed light on which Alfas had the torsion bars (possibly F12?).

http://www.romeoregister.com/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/0453?opendocument&part=2

You'll have to pardon me if all this is old info, but I like the challenge of finding obscure parts.

 

[ericpmasters]

I'd be hesitant to start reengineering a car that they only made 50 of. Have you tried sourcing the the Alfa Romeo truck torsion bars from Europe? This guy might have some leads: http://www.alfastop.co.uk/.

The Alfa people are just as fanatical about saving old parts as anyone has a right to be, so chances are good that what you need is out there.

This site might be able to shed light on which Alfas had the torsion bars (possibly F12?).

http://www.romeoregister.com/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/0453?opendocument&part=2

You'll have to pardon me if all this is old info, but I like the challenge of finding obscure parts.

Thanks for all the info guys, will definitely look into the Mustang 2 setups, as well as the Alfa Romeo truck bars mentioned (as they were machined out of an alfa romeo torsion bar originally, just with modified ends). I am definitely hesitant to do this, just want to see what's possible with what modifications. I believe there is a guy who has the design for some replacement torsion bars for this car, but I also just got in contact with a guy named Ron Langdon out in Long Island who has done two coil over conversions on two of these Squire's already. I am going to pick his brain into what his process is before diving into it, but at least it's possible! If anyone has any other ideas please feel free to chime in, knowledge is power and it all helps. Thanks again!

 

[mjlan]

I think the major problem with a C/O over conversion is the mount for the upper end of the shock wasn't designed to handle the weight of the car and it would need to with coil overs.

Also, the arm geometry isn't that bad. The upper arm should be angled like that, this setup would gain negative camber in bump or roll which is desirable, unlike the mustang which does the opposite...

 

[detritusmaximus]

I think the major problem with a C/O over conversion is the mount for the upper end of the shock wasn't designed to handle the weight of the car and it would need to with coil overs.

Also, the arm geometry isn't that bad. The upper arm should be angled like that, this setup would gain negative camber in bump or roll which is desirable, unlike the mustang which does the opposite...

I think the shock mount loading issue you describe could be overcome by making reinforcing plates/arms going from the upper shock mount down to the torsion bar support plates to tie the upper shock mount structure to the torsion bar supports that were designed to handle the load.

 

[MustangMyWay]

Perhaps you should wait until it breaks before you "fix" it. It may very well be a stalwart design.

 

[ericpmasters]

Perhaps you should wait until it breaks before you "fix" it. It may very well be a stalwart design.

Very true, but considering it's age, the current ride stiffness, and the inability to find replacement parts, I would rather take the time to do it now, while the whole car is being taken apart and restored, then to leave something that will eventually need to be replaced. The guy I found, Ron Langdon, highly recommends the upgrade to a coilover in the front, as he did it on two others already, and experienced the before and after ride quality and says it's a complete transformation. As of now, the torsion bushings, as well as a few other components will need to be replaced. So I'm keeping my options open as I'd rather do it all now, than later. But again, you are right, don't need to replace anything until it's broken. I just dont know if I want to wait till that happens. Thanks for all your help/opinions so far everyone