73 302 ro 351w swap now transmission noise

[samckay]

Swapped from 302 to 351w from late 70's (?78 i believe).  Am using the previous C4 transmission with a pioneer FRA-203 flex plate that I got new.  Had same teeth number and diameter as previous.  The windsor had clutch plate previosly.

Fit back together but hear scraping sound going into reverse and is at times difficult to get in to gear (won't shift though the gear shifter moves properly and freely. 

Under heavy acceleration it is a terrible sound, scraping or loose belt type sound (only did it once...)

I suspect after researching that I have the wrong flex plate.  Is this the likely reason?  Has driven maybe 2 miles, how much damage?  

I am removing transmission, have taken down inspection plate and the torque converter bolts were in place and are now removed.  Getting ready to pell trans but wanted to check for any other thoughts or advice.

previously had a 3speed top loader that i have in my possession but no linkage.  How hard would that swap be and would I be better off?

scott

 

[72MustangSprint]

Did you lock tite the flex plate and converter bolts ?

 

[samckay]

Did you lock tite the flex plate and converter bolts ?

yes.  the converter nuts were tight.  have not seen the flex plate ones yet but did apply loctite and torqued them

 

[Hemikiller]

Thinking you might not have seated the torque converter all the way into the pump. There should be play between the converter and the flexplate, about 1/4" or so. The converter should be able to slide fore and aft that amount. If it's jammed up tight against the flexplate, you have a problem.

 

[samckay]

I had watched sev vids on seating the torque converter and felt i did it right but...   I do not fully understand the concept of the "1/4 play" between flex plate and convertor.  It seems you are tightening the the convertor directly to the flex plate.  i may must not fully comprehend the function of the convertor and its relation to the flex plate

 

[boilermaster]

I had watched sev vids on seating the torque converter and felt i did it right but...   I do not fully understand the concept of the "1/4 play" between flex plate and convertor.  It seems you are tightening the the convertor directly to the flex plate.  i may must not fully comprehend the function of the convertor and its relation to the flex plate

samckay,                                                                                                                                       With the torque converter fully seated in the transmission front pump and the transmission boits torqued, the studs from the torque converter should protrude from the flex plate just enough to get the nuts started.                                                                                                                               When you begin to tighten the first nut the torque converter should be able to move within the hole in the flex plate and should also be able to move foreward to seat against the flex plate.                  sorry but you may have damaged the transmission front pump.                                                      I would suggest that you remove the torque converter nuts till you have only one remaining and see with the last one loose that the torque converter stud moves freely inside it's hole both clockwise and counter clockwise , as well as front to rear.                                                                          if it does not, I think your front pump may be damaged.                                                            Boilermaster

 

[tony-muscle]

Also check for contact between the flex plate and the block cover. At least in the Cleveland the block cover can interfere with the back of the oil pan so not seating flat against the block which causes the flex plate to scrape the block cover. However, i dont see how will this affect the shifting. It should just be noise.

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[Hemikiller]

Boilermaster cleared up what I was getting at.

 

[samckay]

got transmission out and the spacer plate has scrapes consistent w torque convertor and the new flexplate is approx 3/16 inch THINNER than the original that was attached to this transmission.

Not sure if the issue is only the flexplate or how to go forward. tried to post some pics but not successful

 

[tony-muscle]

Does the flexplate show circumferential scratches?

Edit: are you referring to the block plate by spacer?

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[boilermaster]

got transmission out and the spacer plate has scrapes consistent w torque convertor and the new flexplate is approx 3/16 inch THINNER than the original that was attached to this transmission.  

Not sure if the issue is only the flexplate or how to go forward.  tried to post some pics but not successful

samckay,                                                                                                                                     a couple of things come to mind here now, you might be all good with the front pump, provided that the 3/16'' difference in the flex plate did not cause any binding at the pump. (under normal circumstances , tightening up the converter nuts can draw the converter foreward near that much.)    the other thing , wondering how much crankshaft end play you may actually may have, especially seeing this was a manual transmission..                                                                        you may well be out of the woods here, but I will suggest checking  crankshaft end play while checking for clearance between the spacer and flexplate.                                                    Boilermaster

 

[Hemikiller]

Possibly converter drain plug not lined up with the appropriate hole twisting the flexplate.

 

[boilermaster]

Possibly converter drain plug not lined up with the appropriate hole twisting the flexplate.

Hemikiller,                                                                                                                                  samckay may be able to answer that by telling us if there is one or four holes for the converter drain on the flexplate.                                                                                                                           I am also wondering exactly what is hitting what, could it actually be the balance weight on the flexplate ? or each of the four converter studs or even the drain plug itself?                                     The scrape marks width should tell the story.                                                                               Are the width of the balance weight, converter stud or drain plug ?                                                Samckay how about  removing the flexplate from the engine and bolting it it up to the torque converter with the converter fully seated in the transmission and lay a straight edge across the transmission, see which of the three is the closest to the face of the transmission ?   What about inside starter bolt being too long ?                                                                                Boilermaster

 

[boilermaster]

Wow,                                                                                                                                         Sorry if it looks like I need to take remedial type class, my keyboard is all messed up.                      Boilermaster

 

[boilermaster]

Clutch pilot bearing/ bushing WAS removed from the 351 W crank RIGHT ?                                        Boilermaster

 

[samckay]

Does the flexplate show circumferential scratches?

Edit: are you referring to the block plate by spacer?

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just seeing this.  Yes the circumferential and is block plate spacer.   will attach PHOTO.  I bought a new spacer plate as the old one was bent in removal of engine, as evidenced by hammer marks . This may be the only issue but want to make sure the flexplate is the correct one and am having trouble confirming

 

[samckay]

Clutch pilot bearing/ bushing WAS removed from the 351 W crank RIGHT ?                                        Boilermaster

did not see this reply.  had slight panic attack when question asked...  Yes when i Dissasembled the clutch i removed it

 

[tony-muscle]

Does the flexplate show circumferential scratches?

Edit: are you referring to the block plate by spacer?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

just seeing this.  Yes the circumferential and is block plate spacer.   will attach PHOTO.  I bought a new spacer plate as the old one was bent in removal of engine, as evidenced by hammer marks . This may be the only issue but want to make sure the flexplate is the correct one and am having trouble confirming

That's what I was suspicious of. That's an indication that the flexplate is rubbing against the block plate. Make sure the block plate is sitting flush against the block. In the Cleveland the oil pan would stick out slightly in the back so you have to cut a smiley face slot on the block plate to allow it to fit flush against the block.

See my post here where you can see what happened to me. It could be that it is not the same issue but whatever it is, it seems that your block plate is not sitting flush.

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-muscletang-mod-project-thread-1971-m-mach-1?pid=328208#pid328208