73 mach 1 tremec conversion

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GT73

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upstate ny
My Car
1973 mach 1 original 2bbl fmx car now 4bbl 4 speed blue with black int
just got a used but good tremec tko 3550. has 26 spline input shaft . was wondering what diameter and manufacturer other guys were using. car is a 73 mach 1 w 351c and toploader. ive owned it since 14years old . need some advice. thanks

 
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just got a used but good tremec tko 3550. has 26 spline input shaft . was wondering what diameter and manufacturer other guys were using. car is a 73 mach 1 w 351c and toploader. ive owned it since 14years old . need some advice. thanks
I have no idea, but have you posted up an intro? With pics if you have them?

I'm sure someone will be along to help you out...

 
Welcome to the forum.

Not sure what you're refering to by: "diameter and manufacturer"??

I have a TKO-500 which is an updated stronger version of the TR-3550. It has the same gear ratios

as the 3550, which has a pretty stout 3.27 first gear. The toploader (depending on version) only had about 2.48 first gear. If your rear gear is numberically higher than about 3.50,

the 1st gear in the 3550 will be unusable (like a granny gear in a truck). You might want a

TKO-600 instead, it's 1st gear is 2.87. Then you wouldn't have to change rear gears too and you would have a MUCH stronger tranny than a 3550.

 
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i meant to ask about clutches too. any ideas

 
Tremec 3550 gears:

1st: 3.27

2nd: 1.98

3rd: 1.34

4th: 1.00

5th: 0.68

max torque it can handle is 350 ft-lb.

What rear gear would give best mpg for a 351c 2v with p235/60r15 tires?

 
I have the TKO-600 in my '68 coupe. I have 3.50:1 gears and similiar tires (I have 16" torque thrust wheels). But i also have a built yet very streetable 393w. As for what gear ratio you should use, you need to figure out your intended use and your engine. If that 2v Cleveland is stock, then you're probably going to be in the 3.25-3.50:1 range.

As for a clutch, again you need to look at you intended use. If you are looking for max miles per gallon, then you probably don't need anything too special. If you want a performance clutch, look at the dual Kevlar clutch at Modern Driveline. They also sell everything you will need to convert to the manual trans..

 
What rear gear would give best mpg for a 351c 2v with p235/60r15 tires?
Generally your peak efficiency is at peak torque. If you know where peak torque falls you can calculate the rear gear from RPM, tire circumference and transmission high gear ratio.
If that were true then cars wouldn't have overdrive. Looking at dyno torque curves, peak torque is usually around 6000 rpm. That's certainally not the best rpm for mpgs. The ideal rpm for MPGs is at idle speed, but there is no power at idle, so that's not practical.

As for rear gear, it's a compromise. You want the tallest gear (lowest number) yielding the lowest rpms for mpgs. The problem is that at lowest rpms the car is not drivable at speed because it has little power at low rpm. So as a compromise, most cars do well at about 2000 rpm at hiway speed. You can calculate your rpm at different speeds at ring-pinion.com,

using different gears, tires and tranny gears.

 
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What rear gear would give best mpg for a 351c 2v with p235/60r15 tires?
Generally your peak efficiency is at peak torque. If you know where peak torque falls you can calculate the rear gear from RPM, tire circumference and transmission high gear ratio.
If that were true then cars wouldn't have overdrive. Looking at dyno torque curves, peak torque is usually around 6000 rpm. That's certainally not the best rpm for mpgs. The ideal rpm for MPGs is at idle speed, but there is no power at idle, so that's not practical.

As for rear gear, it's a compromise. You want the tallest gear (lowest number) yielding the lowest rpms for mpgs. The problem is that at lowest rpms the car is not drivable at speed because it has little power at low rpm. So as a compromise, most cars do well at about 2000 rpm at hiway speed. You can calculate your rpm at different speeds at ring-pinion.com,

using different gears, tires and tranny gears.
HMMMMMM

Fuel Economy, Engine Efficiency & Power

by Rad Davis, Virtual Vairs

Philip Stevens wrote: I'm trying to understand fuel economy and engine efficiency. Does an engine run most efficiently at maximum torque, or maximum horsepower, or where? Also, is the point at which an engine runs most efficiently also the point of maximum fuel economy? I've also been told that manifold vacuum is related in some way to fuel economy. Anyone care to elaborate?

Rad Davis answers: Ah, a technical question! Just what I like.

An engine (no accessories), running at full throttle (we're ignoring power valves and other enrichment gadgets) has its lowest fuel consumption/unit power produced at the torque peak. The horsepower peak is a mathematical artifact of increasing RPM coupled with decreasing efficiency, and is not usually a good place to run for max. economy. Unfortunately, unless you're running a generator, or pump, or something like that, it's not a particularly relevant value, because automobile drivers *do* have engine accessories and power valves (late corvairs, anyway) and *don't* spend much time at full throttle at the torque peak.

OK, now a little quick theory: The reason that economy (efficiency) maximizes at the torque peak is because this is the place where the engine is inhaling the greatest amount of fuel and air into the cylinder which, when burned, makes the peak amount of cylinder pressure and thus the maximum torque.

So the instant you close the throttle some, you're losing efficiency and your fuel economy (expressed per unit power output) goes down. Again, if you're generating electricity or pumping water, this is a bad thing.

But cars are in a variable load environment. You may be going downhill at 60 mph, and only need 1/2 hp to maintain speed. So the engine is horribly inefficient in producing this 1/2 hp, but you're demanding so little compared to what the engine can make that your economy (expressed per unit distance traveled (like MPG)) is extremely high.

If you then complicate things by including parasitic power losses to the cooling fan, vacuum advance, power enrichment, and aerodynamic drag, things get pretty murky, at least from a theoretical standpoint. The good news is that we can make some emperical generalizations:

Assuming that the engine is operating in its powerband (roughly 1200 RPM to 4000 RPM on two-carb corvairs), and throttle is between zero and 80% of travel, the slower the engine is turning, the better fuel economy will be. So upshift early--fuel economy is always best in top gear. This is especially true with a Corvair, because the power consumption of the cooling fan is a cubic function of RPM.

The slower you go (assuming the 1200 rpm/80%/top gear rule) the better fuel economy will be, because aerodynamic drag is the largest single power sink above about 35 mph. I can't find my 110 HP Stock Engine Test Report (lots of stuff still in boxes), but best fuel economy for the late sedan with that engine was something like 32 MPH, according to the dyno numbers.

The less you start and stop, the better fuel economy will be. Every time you start the car, you waste all the kinetic energy as heat by using the brakes. Starting from the stoplight sucks up power (and fuel) replacing that lost energy of motion. Accordingly, a lighter car will get better fuel economy irrespective of any aerodynamic changes. It takes 3200 lb-ft to raise my Greenbrier one foot. It only takes 2300 lb-ft to raise a late coupe that far. Every time you climb a hill this comes into play.

About vacuum gauges: These make more sense on cars with huge engines. If you've got something like a caprice with a 454, the fuel economy of the car is related almost exclusively to the amount of fuel the engine is demanding at that instant, regardless of speed. Our standard joke about our '73 400 CI Pontiac was that it got 13 mpg uphill, downhill, a/c on or off, towing a trailer or not. The reason for this was that the engine could make something like 350 HP. And in normal operation, you used maybe 60 HP. Highway cruise was something like 20 HP. So in typical driving, you could get around with 20% of the engine's total power output. The engine is in a hideously inefficient regime all the time, so all you can do is try to minimize the gross fuel consumption.

Engine vacuum is a good approximation of just how much fuel and air is going into the engine. Vacuum is near zero at full throttle. Higher vacuum=less fuel. So if you use the vacuum gauge as a guide, less is better.

Where this falls down is when it runs into situations when the engine *can* be steady-state loaded near full throttle and the torque peak. In our Pontiac, this would be pulling a trailer climbing Mount Everest at 60 mph in top gear. Fortunately, Corvairs have smaller engines relative to their weight, and weigh less than that Tin Indian did, too.

So if you take something like my Greenbrier (Corvair minivan, if you don't know), and drive down the road with a low rearend ratio (3.27:1) and tall van tires at 65 MPH, you're either at about 60% throttle or you're slowing down. Climbing even a 6% hill on an interstate you get up to 75% throttle or so. So you're in a situation where the engine (as a black box) is starting to be very efficient. Sure enough, the Greenbrier never gets less than 20 MPG on interstate trips, and set a record of 28 MPG driving through the mountains of Tennessee in heavy traffic. By the vacuum gauge, the fuel economy should suck, but in practice, it's better than most turbo corvairs can manage, even though the van is heavier and less aerodynamic.

This is the secret of cars like the Geo (now Chevy) Metro--it doesn't weigh anything, has no frontal area, and has a tiny engine (1 litre). So the little engine still has to work quite hard to drag even such a light car around, and is working very efficiently most of the time. Result: 54 MPG.

 
What rear gear would give best mpg for a 351c 2v with p235/60r15 tires?
Generally your peak efficiency is at peak torque. If you know where peak torque falls you can calculate the rear gear from RPM, tire circumference and transmission high gear ratio.
If that were true then cars wouldn't have overdrive. Looking at dyno torque curves, peak torque is usually around 6000 rpm. That's certainally not the best rpm for mpgs. The ideal rpm for MPGs is at idle speed, but there is no power at idle, so that's not practical.

As for rear gear, it's a compromise. You want the tallest gear (lowest number) yielding the lowest rpms for mpgs. The problem is that at lowest rpms the car is not drivable at speed because it has little power at low rpm. So as a compromise, most cars do well at about 2000 rpm at hiway speed. You can calculate your rpm at different speeds at ring-pinion.com,

using different gears, tires and tranny gears.

Ding ding ding ding...we have a winner with both of the posts above and also Roy's post. I was playing a bit of a devil's advocate with my question but also trying to flush out what rear gears those with overdrive are running.

It is true that max efficiency happens at max torque. However running at the best efficiency the engine is still ingesting a lot of fuel - but it's burning that fuel very well & thoroughly. If you spin the engine at lower rpms it will ingest less fuel but the engine efficiency (fuel burn characteristics) isn't that great.

In comparison diesels tend to make max torque at around 2000 rpm which is also a good low rpm for the highway. So that's two reasons working together that helps diesel vehicles get 30% better economy than the same vehicle with a gas engine.

The downside to the 2000 rpm highway goal is that drone tends to happen around that rpm. Plus the cost of conversion may take years to recover if the car isn't driven much and the conversion/parts cost was significant. A TKO-600 runs $2200 or so. However, the fun factor increases a lot with smaller rear gears. :D

 
[About vacuum gauges: These make more sense on cars with huge engines. If you've got something like a caprice with a 454, the fuel economy of the car is related almost exclusively to the amount of fuel the engine is demanding at that instant, regardless of speed. Our standard joke about our '73 400 CI Pontiac was that it got 13 mpg uphill, downhill, a/c on or off, towing a trailer or not. The reason for this was that the engine could make something like 350 HP. And in normal operation, you used maybe 60 HP. Highway cruise was something like 20 HP. So in typical driving, you could get around with 20% of the engine's total power output. The engine is in a hideously inefficient regime all the time, so all you can do is try to minimize the gross fuel consumption.

Engine vacuum is a good approximation of just how much fuel and air is going into the engine. Vacuum is near zero at full throttle. Higher vacuum=less fuel. So if you use the vacuum gauge as a guide, less is better.
This is interesting reading.

The best fuel economy is running a small 60hp engine at max torque peak, at high rpm. So, any engine that needs an overdrive for good fuel economy, is horribly overpowered and therefore horribly inefficient.

BTW the highlighted paragraph copied above applies much more to our cars with horribly overpowered engines. Ideal fuel consumption is at the LOWEST possible RPM, because it's consuming the least fuel even though the engine is technically inefficient.

 
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I am running 4:11's in mine
Which 5 speed (or 6 speed) are you running and what's your rpm at say 70 - 75 mph?



I have a TKO-500 which is an updated stronger version of the TR-3550. It has the same gear ratios as the 3550, which has a pretty stout 3.27 first gear. The toploader (depending on version) only had about 2.48 first gear. If your rear gear is numberically higher than about 3.50, the 1st gear in the 3550 will be unusable (like a granny gear in a truck). You might want a

TKO-600 instead, it's 1st gear is 2.87. Then you wouldn't have to change rear gears too and you would have a MUCH stronger tranny than a 3550.
What rear gear are you running?

And what is your highway rpm?

BTW the highlighted paragraph copied above applies much more to our cars with horribly overpowered engines.
Horribly overpowered is not necessarily a bad thing - except for that whole idea about getting good mileage. :D

Trying to get mine from 10 mpg to 15 would make a huge difference in the fuel bill but not if it costs $3000 to convert the car to do so. The biggest thing one can do to drive for higher mpgs is drive it easy & keep the rpms low. I think it costs $2 just to start mine. lol

 
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What rear gear are you running?

And what is your highway rpm?

Trying to get mine from 10 mpg to 15 would make a huge difference in the fuel bill but not if it costs $3000 to convert the car to do so. The biggest thing one can do to drive for higher mpgs is drive it easy & keep the rpms low. I think it costs $2 just to start mine. lol
Rear gear = 3.00

5th gear on TKO-500 = .68

Tires are P215-70-14

RPM at about 70mph = 2000

I think my speedo reads a little high though so it maybe closer to 65 when it reads 70.

With this combo I can run it down to about 50mph in 5th and not lug it too much, not bad.

Below about 55, I'll just downshift to 4th for power.

Ideal rear gear with this tranny is probably 3.25. But the 3.00 combo is not bad at all.

With the TKO-500s 3.27 1st gear I can burn (1 tire) all the way down the street.

Someday I may change to 3.25 rear with limited slip.

$2 to start it, very funny (but probably true).

If you want fuel economy your $3000 would be better spent in a used Honda Civic !! or (sorry) the Ford equiv: Fiesta. You would have to drive ALOT of hiway miles with a 351c to make much diff in mpgs.

But it's sure nice to have less revs on the hiway! (saving the engine)

and at the time a new TKO cost only slightly more than a David Kee quality rebuilt toploader, so it was a no brainer. I converted to stick shift for the fun factor not MPGs anyway.

 
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Gears help and more horse power can make better gas milage for a v8...Just have to be easier on the gas..

My cousins Trans Am got around 12 too 14 mpg...with a 250 hp 400 pontiac motor...tall gears..like 2:75ish...and a stock 4 speed stick....He rebuilt the motor too a mighty 504 hp..850 quad carb......He is easy on it...Cause still the original 4 speed and rear end...He is now getting 19 mpg long as he is easy on the gas on the way too work..That is not bad for a 500hp car..lol..But if he puts the pedal to the floor it burns the tires off and gas milage goes too nil...lol

 
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Gears help and more horse power can make better gas milage for a v8...Just have to be easier on the gas..

My cousins Trans Am got around 12 too 14 mpg...with a 250 hp 400 pontiac motor...tall gears..like 2:75ish...and a stock 4 speed stick....He rebuilt the motor too a mighty 504 hp..850 quad carb......He is easy on it...Cause still the original 4 speed and rear end...He is now getting 19 mpg long as he is easy on the gas on the way too work..That is not bad for a 500hp car..lol..But if he puts the pedal to the floor it burns the tires off and gas milage goes too nil...lol
Along with slow grampa driving habbits,

MPGs can also improve greatly with a tune-up and a new engine (after breakin period). The old 400 smog motor was probably not in top condition either.

 
www.moderndriveline.com

i have this set up and now its coming back out for more serious bracket racing.

 
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