Connecting an adjustable proportioning valve to stock distribution block

[Stanglover]

http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProd.aspx?itemno=260-11179

Another option to get rid of the combo valve.

Do you have a good double flare tool?

This looks like a plan and would clean up the mess I have now. Personally, I like the idea of adjustable rear brakes as my car is a one-wheeler so there is little to no load on the left wheel so it locks up easily. With fine adjustment, it can be set so the rear brakes are good, but lees likely to lock up. Getting the idiot light back is a good thing too.

 

[tony-muscle]

My thoughts:

What type of brakes was your distribution block made for? If it's the one in "H" shape, it's as you said...just a distribution block. If it's the dog-leg shaped one (used on disc brakes) it has a metering valve built in and may not be compatible with an adjustable proportioning valve.

I do not think your adapter made for 1/4" tube will seal properly.

I think you should be able to find a single fitting to do what you want but I can't offer a specific site that has it. I like to find a source for what I'm looking for, get an idea of any specific nomenclature used, then use a general google search using "images" to quickly home in on what I'm looking for. I've found that oreillys has a lot of different size flare nuts and adapters but their search doesn't always find them....a google search using your search terms follow by (less the quotes) "sitereillyauto.com" or wherever you're searching...I've found lots of parts this way that otherwise did not show up using the vendor's search engine.

Mine is the D0OA-2B328-D combination valve for disk brakes. So, you can't connect an adjustable valve to it, do you know why?

In regards to fittings I have spent hours searching in many different ways, including O'Reillys, Dorman, Earls and many others, with no luck.

Tony,

The distribution block for disc brakes has a built in metering valve that requires 125 psi within the distribution block to open the valve allowing pressure to the front brakes. This is, in essence, a proportioning valve that is tuned to what Ford believed was appropriate. The addition of a manually adjustable prop valve may very well work with the stock combo valve, but you will be working with 2 independent valves to accomplish the same thing. I can't say with certainty that it will or won't work, just mentioning the potential conflict between these two parts.

Regards,

BT

Thank you. I have been reading more about this topic, and, in general, it seems not to be a good idea to mix the proportioning valve in the distribution block with an external as you caution.

It seems I may have two options, either to not use the adjustable valve, or to remove the proportional valve from the stock combination valve block. The later means to remove the spring and plunger from the rear brake side, but I don't know what else can be affected. The stock proportional valve is set from the factory assuming a stock car with rear drum brakes, which mine isn't any more. So there may be a value to add the flexibility of an adjustable valve in lieu of the stock. However, I don't know how all will work.

Right now I really want to get the car rolling before summer is over, so I need to decide. I have wasted too much time trying to fit this adjustable valve. Yesterday I gave up the idea of having it installed to the stock block via fittings. After seeing Stanlover's post I figured I will connect it via a combination of tubing and fittings. I did this last night and even though it doesn't look as clean as my original idea, it looks good.

Now that all is set, adding/removing the adjustable valve is easy. I have a T-fitting that I can use instead of the adjustable valve. It will also be fairly easy to remove the proportioning plunger/spring from the stock block. These options are much easier done now before the system is full of fluid and bled than later. What should I do? Options:

1- Add adjustable valve and remove spring/plunger from stock combination valve.

2- No adjustable valve.

3- Sell everything and start sewing. :shootself:

 

[Stanglover]

Thinking about it further, my set-up is likely not too much help for your set-up. Mine was drums with just a distribution block, no proportioning valve (I guess).

Perhaps the question is; what manufacture did you buy from? Do they offer a correct replacement prop valve for the disc/disc set-up you put on? I would think that most makers of aftermarket brake systems are fully aware of the issues involved to upgrade a brake system and have these parts available. BUT, if not, why not???

By the way, how good are you at sewing?lollerz

 

[Don C]

You can get a distribution/pressure differentiation valve for a drum brake car and add the proportioning valve, or just try what you have now. What you have now will just engage the rear brakes first, which can help with stability and straight-line braking. If you don't like it you can modify it later, or change to something else. The one thing you may need to address is the residual pressure valves, they should be the same for both front and back brakes, to keep from having excessive brake pedal movement.

 

[tony-muscle]

I did an extensive research and a lot of people remove the proportioning valve spring/plunger out of the stock combination valve to add an adjustable valve. The premise is that the stock proportioning valve is fixed and tuned to the car. However, as you modify brakes and other items, this adjustment is not optimal. Since I replaced the rear brakes to discs I consider this a large modification. Therefore, adding an adjustable valve made sense.

Here is a picture of how it looks. I had originally painted the valve black to hide it, but with all the manipulation the paint flaked off (will fix the paint issue later). Obviously, I also removed the spring/plunger out of the stock valve block to avoid problems. To connect the new valve, I resorted to using a section of tubing bent in "S" shape between the stock combination block and adjustable valve. The tube has a 7/16-24 nut on the stock block end and a 3/8-24 nut on the valve end. I then used an elbow adapter to go from the tube flare to the 1/8" NPT inlet of the valve.

Also, I am using the disc/disc brake master cylinder from Drake, C7ZZ-2140-4WDB. I think all looks good in theory. We will see how it performs in practice. Hopefully soon I will be able to test this setup and post some feedback.

 

[Stanglover]

Here is a couple of pictures of my set-up. This was a drum/drum car therefore the block is different. I believe it's just a distribution block with a pressure sensor for the idiot light. A bit hard to see, it's pretty cluttered in that area now. The first pic is the adjustable rear valve, second is the original dist. block

Hope this helps.

 

[basstrix]

Tony,

Looks good and I think you made the right choice with removing the spring & plunger.

Stanglover,

You are correct, the non-disc distribution block only has a shuttle valve to turn on the brake light if enough bias exists between front & rear circuits.

 

[Stanglover]

Stanglover,

You are correct, the non-disc distribution block only has a shuttle valve to turn on the brake light if enough bias exists between front & rear circuits.

That's as I thought then. Thanks for confirming.

Geoff

 

[tony-muscle]

Stanglover,

You are correct, the non-disc distribution block only has a shuttle valve to turn on the brake light if enough bias exists between front & rear circuits.

That's as I thought then. Thanks for confirming.

Geoff

I also see that your distribution block is oriented horizontally while mine is vertical. I know the port locations vary from one to the other.

 

[Stanglover]

I also see that your distribution block is oriented horizontally while mine is vertical. I know the port locations vary from one to the other.

You're right. I know this car is an 'as original drum/drum' non power booster. Is that because mine is a 71? The cars that I know of with the valve in the vertical position are all power disc f/b for 71's. Did Ford change that in later years? I don't know the answer to that.

Anyway, I hope you get what you need from all of this "confusion"

An FYI. The adjustable valve did not come with the bracket. I fabricated that. I guess it can just be placed in the lines without support if you want to.

Geoff.

 

[basstrix]

My ranchero had non-power drums...the distribution block was also horizontal. The bracket that came with the disc combo valve oriented it to the vertical like Tony's. In my case, I had all of the brakes lines from a donor car so I didn't have to bend any lines to fit....well except for the one I made to replace one that had some rust pitting.

 

[Stanglover]

My ranchero had non-power drums...the distribution block was also horizontal. The bracket that came with the disc combo valve oriented it to the vertical like Tony's. In my case, I had all of the brakes lines from a donor car so I didn't have to bend any lines to fit....well except for the one I made to replace one that had some rust pitting.

While I was at it, I replaced all the lines with SS even though they 'looked good'. I got the SS drum line with the car and also I purchased the front disc lines as well just in case I needed different pieces, which I did in the end. Lines tend to rot from the inside out. I didn't want another brake line bursting on me........ very scary stuff!!

 

[73pony]

My ranchero had non-power drums...the distribution block was also horizontal. The bracket that came with the disc combo valve oriented it to the vertical like Tony's. In my case, I had all of the brakes lines from a donor car so I didn't have to bend any lines to fit....well except for the one I made to replace one that had some rust pitting.

While I was at it, I replaced all the lines with SS even though they 'looked good'. I got the SS drum line with the car and also I purchased the front disc lines as well just in case I needed different pieces, which I did in the end. Lines tend to rot from the inside out. I didn't want another brake line bursting on me........ very scary stuff!!

I hear you. I was in college in Iowa City driving through campus when I had a break line burst with students all around. Had to slam the ebrake to the floor to get stopped. And that was at 20 mph.

 

[Stanglover]

My ranchero had non-power drums...the distribution block was also horizontal. The bracket that came with the disc combo valve oriented it to the vertical like Tony's. In my case, I had all of the brakes lines from a donor car so I didn't have to bend any lines to fit....well except for the one I made to replace one that had some rust pitting.

While I was at it, I replaced all the lines with SS even though they 'looked good'. I got the SS drum line with the car and also I purchased the front disc lines as well just in case I needed different pieces, which I did in the end. Lines tend to rot from the inside out. I didn't want another brake line bursting on me........ very scary stuff!!

I hear you. I was in college in Iowa City driving through campus when I had a break line burst with students all around. Had to slam the ebrake to the floor to get stopped. And that was at 20 mph.

We're going way off topic, but really not enough people pay attention to brake lines. Brake fluid absorbs moisture, so lines rust from the inside out. They're cheap to buy and not that hard to replace, so why does this not get done when brake upgrades are ongoing?

As for my failure, I was approaching a traffic light on red, a car in front of me. Hit the brakes at 30 mph and pedal goes to the floor, grabbed first gear (manual trans), hit the stupid e-brake, still not slowing so I had no choice but to cut across the left lane, go over the curb, drive along the sidewalk, behind the traffic light, across that road, cut across the neighbors yard and into my driveway..... all in about 10 seconds. No damage to anything or anyone thankfully.

My point, brakes are too important not to be done right, no exceptions.

Geoff.

 

[tony-muscle]

While I was at it, I replaced all the lines with SS even though they 'looked good'. I got the SS drum line with the car and also I purchased the front disc lines as well just in case I needed different pieces, which I did in the end. Lines tend to rot from the inside out. I didn't want another brake line bursting on me........ very scary stuff!!

I hear you. I was in college in Iowa City driving through campus when I had a break line burst with students all around. Had to slam the ebrake to the floor to get stopped. And that was at 20 mph.

We're going way off topic, but really not enough people pay attention to brake lines. Brake fluid absorbs moisture, so lines rust from the inside out. They're cheap to buy and not that hard to replace, so why does this not get done when brake upgrades are ongoing?

As for my failure, I was approaching a traffic light on red, a car in front of me. Hit the brakes at 30 mph and pedal goes to the floor, grabbed first gear (manual trans), hit the stupid e-brake, still not slowing so I had no choice but to cut across the left lane, go over the curb, drive along the sidewalk, behind the traffic light, across that road, cut across the neighbors yard and into my driveway..... all in about 10 seconds. No damage to anything or anyone thankfully.

My point, brakes are too important not to be done right, no exceptions.

Geoff.

So you are talking about the flexible lines or the actual steel lines bursting? I raplaced all mine except the long one between the combination valve and rear end. I dont know if mine were original because they didnt look bad at all. I can cut a few of the ones i removed to see the condition away from the ends.

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

[Stanglover]

I hear you. I was in college in Iowa City driving through campus when I had a break line burst with students all around. Had to slam the ebrake to the floor to get stopped. And that was at 20 mph.

We're going way off topic, but really not enough people pay attention to brake lines. Brake fluid absorbs moisture, so lines rust from the inside out. They're cheap to buy and not that hard to replace, so why does this not get done when brake upgrades are ongoing?

As for my failure, I was approaching a traffic light on red, a car in front of me. Hit the brakes at 30 mph and pedal goes to the floor, grabbed first gear (manual trans), hit the stupid e-brake, still not slowing so I had no choice but to cut across the left lane, go over the curb, drive along the sidewalk, behind the traffic light, across that road, cut across the neighbors yard and into my driveway..... all in about 10 seconds. No damage to anything or anyone thankfully.

My point, brakes are too important not to be done right, no exceptions.

Geoff.

So you are talking about the flexible lines or the actual steel lines bursting? I raplaced all mine except the long one between the combination valve and rear end. I dont know if mine were original because they didnt look bad at all. I can cut a few of the ones i removed to see the condition away from the ends.

1971 M-code Mach 1

Sorry, the steel lines. Blew on the front right side if I remember ( 30+ years ago now). Why the back brakes didn't hold it I have no idea, but that was scary 10 seconds for sure. Goes to show the importance of good lines, rubber or steel. On my current car, the lines I took off looked like new on the outside, but I was not taking that chance for the sake of a hundred bucks or so. I used pre formed SS lines and only had to do minor adjustments for best fit. The long line to the back is a pain for sure without taking the driveshaft out.