Engine rebuild after broken timing chain

[antipasti]

Hi all,

since I have the confirmation of a broken timing chain (as well a damaged harmonic balancer) I started to think about a rebuild of my engine once I pulled it completely out of the car over the upcoming winter.

-> http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-engine-timing-chain-is-broken

Car is a 73 Mach1 351C 2V - currently with Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold, Edelbrock 600CFM Carburator, automatic transmission, don't know the gear ratio.

Seems there are one trillion of choices to be made. I don't aim to build a 500hp race car, only drive on the streets in Bavaria but enjoy if the car makes me feel it has "sufficient" power...

So, making the long story short, from what I read so far I drafted an initial shopping cart:

1) Federal Mogul Premium Engine Rebuild Kits (https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/fem-csmhp732-311)

(will have see if I can use standard size or need machine zylinders depending on their condition )

2) COMP Camshaft Kit 270H K32-421-8 (https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/cca-k32-421-8)

3) COMP Cams High Energy Pushrods 7825-16 (https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/cca-7825-16)

4) COMP Cams High Energy Die-Cast Aluminum Rocker Arms 17045-16 (https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/cca-17045-16)

5) ARP High Performance Series Rocker Arm Studs 135-7101 (https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/arp-135-7101)

6) COMP Cams Guide Plates 4514SP-1 (https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/cca-4514sp-1/overview/)

7) COMP Cams Retro Fit Hydraulic Roller Lifter Kits 31-1000 (https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/cca-31-1000/overview/)

8) Pioneer Street Performance Balancers 872007 https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/pio-872007/overview/make/ford

9) Hooker Competition Headers 6913HKR (https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/hok-6913hkr/overview/make/ford)

10) valves and hardened valve seats (but no specific article found yet - any recomendation?)

For the time being I thought about not changing the cylinder heads - Thought about CHI 3V or Edelbrock for a while. But eventhough it would be cool, I think I don't need the extra power and that would be another $2.000 +shipping +import taxes. So if the stock cylinder heads can work with the above combination I'd prefer to stick with them and keep also the current intake manifold and carburator.

What I was also wondering is, if the size/length of pushrods and studs have to be measured individually or if there are specific lenghts that will fit to the above combination!?

Since I would have to order all parts to be delivered to Germany that would cause longer idle times if I have to order, measure and wait for the next order...

Any thought's, comments, hints based on your experience?

Thanks

Andreas

 

[73pony]

Gear ratio would be helpful as well as the stall speed on torq converter. Helps with all the voodoo math behind cam selection. Also have the heads on this car had any previous work done? You will want to have hardened valve seats and new valves (SS). I am in the process of redoing my top end currently. Installing a set of Aussie 2v closed chamber heads with a full roller cam. Cam is a custom grind from comp cams.

608/612 lift

225/232 duration

112 LSA

This was based on having a 5 Speed Manual and 3.70 gears though. I am running the headman headers and they fit very nicely with plenty of ground clearance with a 1" drop all around. Hope this helps a little. There are a lot more knowledgeable people on here that can chime in though. Good luck with your build. One of the members did just post a worksheet for help with cam selection so you might want to check that out too.

 

[antipasti]

Gear ratio would be helpful as well as the stall speed on torq converter.

Any hint how i can find that out?

Also have the heads on this car had any previous work done?

Not to my knowledge so far - when I got it also the intake manifold was stock and a smaller Holley 500 carb was installed. But I'll see once we take the heads off

You will want to have hardened valve seats and new valves (SS).

any recommendation on parts?

 

[red351]

I'm sure the valves came in contact with the pistons when the chain broke, so pulling the heads would be on my list of things to do. Rebuilding the heads gets costly if there a lot of damage, so keep that in mind. Mixing and matching valve train parts is going to need the right length push rods. Kits i'm not so sure about

 

[73pony]

Gear ratio would be helpful as well as the stall speed on torq converter.

Any hint how i can find that out?

Also have the heads on this car had any previous work done?

Not to my knowledge so far - when I got it also the intake manifold was stock and a smaller Holley 500 carb was installed. But I'll see once we take the heads off

You will want to have hardened valve seats and new valves (SS).

any recommendation on parts?

The machine shop that does the work on the heads should take care of the seats. They will prob recommend valves as well.

For the gear ratio there should be a tag on third member if it hasn't been touched with some codes on it. Or if your drivers door sticker is still there it will have what axel the car came with. I have no idea how to determine stall speed on torq converter.

 

[basstrix]

You can approximate the axle ratio by jacking up one wheel, marking the yoke on the rear diff along with a corresponding mark on the rear differential. Rotate the wheel exactly 2 times and measure the rotation of the yoke. For example, if you have a 2.75:1 ratio, the yoke will rotate 2 and 3/4 revolutions for 2 full rotations of the tire.

If you have a limited slip differential, you'll jack up both wheels and rotate 1 revolution instead of 2.

 

[c9zx]

Before you buy any parts, I suggest you first find a VERY competent automotive machine shop familiar with American V-8s. Best case is a shop that is familiar with 351Cs. That may not be possible in Germany. Be very careful on replacement piston compression distances, they are not all the same.

Given your desired outcomes, I don't feel the expense of a roller cam, or a cam with that much lift is warranted with 2V heads. As others have said, you need to match the convertor stall speed and differential gear ratio to the engine build level. The intake and carb are not a good fit for any use past about 5500 RPM.

There are other cam companies than "Comp Cams". And, there are other suppliers than Summit Racing. Do lots of research to ensure a good match of all the components in the entire driveline before you buy.

I hope all goes smoothly with the rebuild.

Chuck

 

[will e]

If you are going with headers anyways don't rule out 4v heads. You would have to get a different intake manifold but that's not much money compared to the rest of your build.

I would go roller cam. No break in worries and the faster ramp has advantages. My next build will have a roller cam. (see my sig for current build).

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

aluminum heads may be a better value than you think, if you can get them fully assembled

otherwise you pay to mill the stock heads, cut them for rocker arm studs, valve guides and possible have to mill the spring seats, add guide plates, replace all the valves, cut the heads for and install valve seats and when you are done you still have 2v heads I think I ended up with 900 bucks or more spent bringing my 4V CC heads up to par. While I am not a huge fan of aluminum heads, I do believe that the weight savings are well worth while. Cost wise it will take twice as much to buy heads fully assembled and ready to bolt on, but in terms of time savings-it might be worth reviewing

 

[Don C]

I agree with Mike on roller cam and with Jeff on the aluminum heads, you can get them with better quench than is possible with your 2V heads, plus the better cooling reduces pinging. However, it's still hard to beat 4V closed chamber heads.

 

[piper62j]

Caution.. If any of the pistons have been damaged, it's a very good possibility the block is cracked in one of the cylinders.. I've seen it many times.. Look for a split piston.. If any are damaged, have the entire block magnafluxed for cracks. If you don't go the extra step, you'll be pouring money into the engine and wind up very disappointed..

 

[4mm]

Also consider the possibility of newly rebuilt/assembled long block from a reputable machinist. Faster delivery (no dealing with machine shop jail) and the price margin could be smaller than you think compared to what you're planning on doing.

 

[antipasti]

You can approximate the axle ratio by jacking up one wheel, marking the yoke on the rear diff along with a corresponding mark on the rear differential. Rotate the wheel exactly 2 times and measure the rotation of the yoke. For example, if you have a 2.75:1 ratio, the yoke will rotate 2 and 3/4 revolutions for 2 full rotations of the tire.

If you have a limited slip differential, you'll jack up both wheels and rotate 1 revolution instead of 2.

Checked the ratio. 1 rotation of the wheel turns the yoke 1.5 times

 

[basstrix]

Assuming that was with 1 wheel jacked up, you have a 3.00:1 ratio.

 

[antipasti]

Assuming that was with 1 wheel jacked up, you have a 3.00:1 ratio.

Thanks! Assumed that would be the ratio.

Actually the whole car was jacked up, so both wheel where free. But only the one I was turning moved.