Ever hear of this remedy?

[peche 71]

My new acquisition, the 73 vert has a partially seized engine. The fly wheel can be moved a bit manually, but that's it.

An old timer in town suggests removing the spark plugs and shooting in a diesel and turpentine mixture and letting it sit for winter. He says he's used it before on truck and tractor engines, and it loosens it up well.

Any thoughts?

 

[rocket366]

Yep Diesel or Marvel Mystery Oil.

Trouble is that if you get it free and start it

chances are it won't have much compression

and smoke a lot because of the stuck piston rings

in their grooves.

Paul

 

[peche 71]

Yep Diesel or Marvel Mystery Oil.

Trouble is that if you get it free and start it

chances are it won't have much compression

and smoke a lot because of the stuck piston rings

in their grooves.

Paul

So is there a better option?

 

[barnett468]

My new acquisition, the 73 vert has a partially seized engine. The fly wheel can be moved a bit manually, but that's it.

An old timer in town suggests removing the spark plugs and shooting in a diesel and turpentine mixture and letting it sit for winter. He says he's used it before on truck and tractor engines, and it loosens it up well.

Any thoughts?

no point wasting time with oil because your engine needs to come apart if the prob is not in the trans.

flip a coin and remove either the heads or timing cover first and if you dont see a prob, do the other one, and if still no problem, yank the engine and rebuild it.

 

[lonely cruser]

My new acquisition, the 73 vert has a partially seized engine. The fly wheel can be moved a bit manually, but that's it.

An old timer in town suggests removing the spark plugs and shooting in a diesel and turpentine mixture and letting it sit for winter. He says he's used it before on truck and tractor engines, and it loosens it up well.

Any thoughts?

no point wasting time with oil because your engine needs to come apart if the prob is not in the trans.

flip a coin and remove either the heads or timing cover first and if you dont see a prob, do the other one, and if still no problem, yank the engine and rebuild it.

If I suspected a trans problem, I would pull the torque converter bolts first. It's the easiest thing to do, takes the least time,and if the engine has to come out will be one thing you won't have to do. I have run into a Ford trans that siezed before. Everyone told the guy he needed a new engine. We pulled engine & trans together and when we separated them, the engine suddenly was free.

If the engine is partially stuck, the very best thing I ever found to free them up is a product called GIBBS. If you suspect a valve problem, pull the carb and pour it right down the manifold. If you think it might be the rings, pull the plugs and shoot some in. Give it a couple days and it will usually free up nearly anything. It's a bit pricey, but well worth having.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

I've seen diesel used on engines, especially after they have been retrieved from sunken jet boats. If it is not too bad it might work, but most likely you just waste 20 bucks worth of diesel and have a big mess.

 

[peche 71]

thanks for the input, it gives me some options and direction.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

If it is rust in the cylinders and you pull the engine. I have posted about this before. You can google and watch some videos online. You can get you a 55 gallon plastic barrel, usually $15.00, go get yourself 5 gallons of Feed Grade Molasses. It will probably be less than $20.00 at your local feed store. Mix it 9 to 1 with water and stir it up until well mixed. You don't want to fill the barrel because you need room for the engine block to fit and probably the heads. I would have the block & heads tanked to remove all the old paint and grease and then put into the molasses and let set for a couple weeks or longer. It will remove all the rust in the cylinders and water jacket. You might agitate the solutions every few days to freshen up what is inside the block. Raise and lower it a couple times. When you take it out pressure wash it and it will be like new cast iron so spray WD-40 on it immediately or it will flash rust.

Yes it is slow but no glass beads or sand to hide in places inside the engine or water jacket. This will really help on a rebuilt with the cooling of the engine getting most of the rust out. Run taps into all the threads to make sure they are clean and straight, blow them out and send block off to the machine shop for bore and whatever it needs. Works on any type ferrous metal or iron. Exhaust manifolds, fenders, whole car if you have a swimming pool full, lol.

Cane Molasses has the following on the label as ingredients. Phosphoric Acid, Vegetable Oil, Lecithin, Propionic Acid, Sulfuric Acid, Crude Fat, Sugar, Calcium, Potassium, Phosphorus, Chloride, Sodium, Sulfur & Magnesium. Hey we eat the stuff or old timers do. It is made from Sorghum or Sugar Cane and is mainly fed to cattle on their dry feed.

It will not remove paint just the rust.

I keep waiting for a bear to show up mine sits outside on concrete slab.

David

 

[barnett468]

.

KROIL OIL is the best rust penetrant hands down.

If you have heavy rust inside your water jackets you can mix 1 lb of oxalic acid to 1 gallon of water and fill it up and let it soak for 2 days and you're done.

If its on the outside, put it in a container etc.

You can also flush your engine every twqo years with it if you want.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

.

KROIL OIL is the best rust penetrant hands down.

If you have heavy rust inside your water jackets you can mix 1 lb of oxalic acid to 1 gallon of water and fill it up and let it soak for 2 days and you're done.

If its on the outside, put it in a container etc.

You can also flush your engine every twqo years with it if you want.

The Oxalic acid is a lot more toxic and does not take much to kill you 15 - 30 grams. I will cause kidney failure similar to ethylene glycol or antifreeze. It is actually in antifreeze. You don't want it on your skin.

The molasses will not harm your pets if they try it and will not harm them and won't hurt your skin or kill you. That is the big reason I use it. I would never have a tank of 50 - 100 gallons of something that toxic around. I could not due to EPA. Yes the molasses is slow, you have heard the term slow as molasses, that covers a couple areas. But it is safe and won't cause any issues.

Now someone will find something that molasses causes, lol.

David

 

[lonely cruser]

If the flywheel turns slightly, why not try rocking the engine back and forth by the bolt in the front of the engine with the plugs out?

Any good penetrating fluid will help,[my personal favorite is GIBBS]and at least give some cylinder lubrication. I have used the fuel oil/kerosene mix before with mixed results. A slant 6 responded real well, but a Chevy 350 didn't.

I have had a Ford trans sieze before, leaving everyone to believe the engine had seized. when we separated them, the engine suddenly would turn over. We blocked it up, put power to it, and it fired right up. Go figure!

 

[midlife]

.

KROIL OIL is the best rust penetrant hands down.

If you have heavy rust inside your water jackets you can mix 1 lb of oxalic acid to 1 gallon of water and fill it up and let it soak for 2 days and you're done.

If its on the outside, put it in a container etc.

You can also flush your engine every twqo years with it if you want.

The Oxalic acid is a lot more toxic and does not take much to kill you 15 - 30 grams. I will cause kidney failure similar to ethylene glycol or antifreeze. It is actually in antifreeze. You don't want it on your skin.

The molasses will not harm your pets if they try it and will not harm them and won't hurt your skin or kill you. That is the big reason I use it. I would never have a tank of 50 - 100 gallons of something that toxic around. I could not due to EPA. Yes the molasses is slow, you have heard the term slow as molasses, that covers a couple areas. But it is safe and won't cause any issues.

Now someone will find something that molasses causes, lol.

David

Molasses causes Rum and the related hangovers!

 

[Mister 4x4]

It sounds like you have a couple things you need to figure out before going any further.

First and foremost, I'd try to remove the torque converter bolts and eliminate the transmission as being the issue. The tough part about that will be turning the assembly to get to all of the TC bolts. If you manage to find success there, you may even get it to run without a complete rebuild. Although, a locked up transmission (FMX?) won't be any easier or cheaper to rebuild/replace.

If the engine's seized, you'll want to pull it out of the car anyway - there won't be any cheap or easy fix to getting it running again if that's the case.

I actually like David's idea of the molasses... but that's more for if you take the engine out of the car. It sounds like you're willing to let it soak for the duration - why not try a combination of the techniques?

1. Separate the transmission - might get lucky (but have a new problem)
   
2. soak the cylinder by filling them with diesel and/or penetrating oil (let 'em sit a few weeks)
   
3. last resort, pull the engine and soak it before the inevitable teardown
   

Lots of great information here. I soaked mine in PB Blaster for about a week, and eventually just took the BFH to it - #4 & #8 were seized up from 30 years of rust with the valves open sitting in a field, or a river, or somewhere obviously not climatized (a gallon-and-a-half drained of the oil pan before the black sludge itself finally came out). If I'd been more patient, I might've taken a torch to it before the pounding began, but the scars in the cylinders were from where they were frozen in-place, not from the extraction. The machine shop had to bore what should've been .020" over to .060" over just to get rid of the scars.

Hopefully, yours won't be as bad.

 

[barnett468]

.

The Oxalic acid is a lot more toxic and does not take much to kill you 15 - 30 grams. I will cause kidney failure similar to ethylene glycol or antifreeze. It is actually in antifreeze. You don't want it on your skin.

The oxalic acid ain't gonna kill noboby . . In fact, simple pool acid is FAR more dangerous . . Besides, it goes in your engine and not in your mouth, and in FACT, it used to be one of the chemicals in radiator flush and it is still in wood bleach and some driveway cleaners as well as a few other products.

Obviously, it does have the word ACID on it so at the very least, READ THE LABEL and follow the SIMPLE precautions stated on the label, which basically are, wear gloves and use in a ventilated area . . NO WHERE does it say to add a heaping tablespoon to your Vodka tonic or mix a bunch up in a bucket then shove your head in it and breathe deeply until you pass out or succumb.

If you do NOT wear gloves, it will NOT cause blisters or ANY other significant damage if you get it on your skin providing you rinse your hands off fairly quickly after contact . . In some cases, it will cause a slight irritation for a day if you don't get it off soon enough, just do NOT mix it strong and take an hour long bath in it.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I still like the thoughts of rum over kidney failure. I have my tank outside so if a pup comes by and likes the smell they would drink. I thought for years a little paint fumes won't hurt you and now I have 40% of my lungs gone. Yes a little will not hurt but it can. Antifreeze tastes really good if you taste it but you won't live long.

David

 

[barnett468]

I still like the thoughts of rum over kidney failure. I have my tank outside so if a pup comes by and likes the smell they would drink. I thought for years a little paint fumes won't hurt you and now I have 40% of my lungs gone. Yes a little will not hurt but it can. Antifreeze tastes really good if you taste it but you won't live long.

David

You can definitely drink a little anti freeze and water mix with absolutely NO permanent side affects whatsoever....been there, done that.

Also, the label on most paint cans says "Do not inhale fumes" or "Use in a well ventilated area" or "Wear a respirator when using this product" etc . . If one doesn't follow the safety instructions on a products label, they can not blame the product for any injury they get while using it.

 

[72HCODE]

here is what i would do;

you have an unknown project that was abandoned and you are not sure why.

is the engine locked up or is something else preventing the crank from turning.

i have been in this situation.

you know the flywheel can turn a little but that is it, you put oil in the cylinders and let it sit. then tried to turn the flywheel again and it still will not move.

since you can not ask the last owner what happened then you can first assume it is the transmission.

If somebody put a trans in the car before stopping the project it is very possible that the torque converter was not installed correctly.

the torque converter installed incorrectly can seize an engine from turning solid.

I speak from personal experience i had a torque converter installed that was not 100% set into the transmission pump and it locked up the engine completely and we had to take the engine back out to figure out what happened.

1) to try and rule out the transmission without taking it out of the car, loosen all the bolts on the transmission to engine bell, loosen the 2 large nuts on the transmission rubber isolator. remove the inspection plate. using a pry bar or brute force push the transmission back slightly.

2) put a paint mark on the harmonic balancer and on the bolt inside, you want this mark to see if the crank is turning or the bolt is turning, the 2 marks should be lined up after you try and turn the crank by hand, if the mark moves between the balancer and the bolt you know the crank is not moving.

3) turn the crank and see if she moves.

if she moves you know the transmission is the cause.

if she is still stuck, have someone under the car watching the torque converter as you try and turn the crank, if there is some movement then you may need to take more pressure off the engine/transmission connection if it is still stuck then the engine/trans have to come out.

if the crank moves and the transmission was the cause then you will need to take the transmission out. leave the engine in if everything checks out.

now from personal experience, after you get the transmission out pull the torque converter and inspect the key that goes into the pump there is a good chance it will be damaged. you can chuck that converter in the trash,,, and the fluid pump for the transmission will need to be removed for inspection to check for damage to the pump gears. that means that trans is going to need a rebuild or a really close inspection.

it could still be something more serious then the transmission inside the engine, but rule out the trans first and you can do that by moving the housing back first between the engine and trans that will take pressure off the flywheel and you might be able to turn the crank.

if the engine is seized then with the engine/trans out of the car you will be able to separate them and make repairs.

 

[peche 71]

more great suggestions, thanks for all of them. I do know am the second owner, and I spoke with the original owner, they said nothing was done to the engine or tranny, everything's original. I'll see what works, starting with the easier options, since mechanics aren't my strong suit.

 

[72HCODE]

if that is the case then plan on the engine coming out and get your tools in order.

if the engine is locked up that much there is no point in trying to break it loose the cylinders and piston rings are going to be toast.

block gets to go to the engine builder...