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another thing to think about as something i didn't know about getting into 71-73 mustangs.

Competition suspension cars had different sheet metal in the back for the rear shocks. I didn't know there was a standard and competition suspension.

putting in competition suspension requires a cross member and different shackle plates for the leafs, also there are blind nuts required for the factory rear  sway bar.

I didn't know that and just assumed all mustangs were the same, putting in a competition suspension when you do not have one is a BIG expensive deal with some rare parts.

knowing what i know now i would of not went for my car additionally based on that.

Fold down rear seats. i didn't even really know about this but assumed all mustangs were the same. once again i did not know the fold downs required different interior sheet metal and it was not just a bolt on part to make the change.

point is really look the car over gets its history and look for options your really want because if the car was not born with it, it will be VERY expensive or impossible to add during the restoration.

this is why take the entire car as a whole to make a decision.

it is like this you find a car with perfect metal that just needs a repaint, however it turns out it is a Inline 6 with a 8.8 rear end FMX trans, drum brakes, no A/C, just some options standard interior.

and you wanted a 351V4,9" rear, C6 or 3-4speed, with A/C, fold downs and competition suspension, disc brakes... then you better run away from that perfect metal car.
Very interesting...  Seems like there is a lot that comes into play here.  So basically my rusty 351C 4bbl, C6, A/C, disc brake, fold down seat white on white Mach 1 is a good find after all.  :cool:

I just need one of those rust removal lasers!  They are only about $480,000. lollerz http://www.cleanlaser.de/wEnglish/produkte/high-power-cl-1000.php 


 
Yeah, but with the exception of the competition suspension and fold-down seat, that would be the perfect candidate for a restomod car - nobody cares if the I-6, FMX, 8", drum brakes, etc., car gets modified, as it's all likely to all get tossed out in favor of the performance goodies, anyway.  :whistling:

But if someone wants a big block and the only restorable car they can find happens to be an M-code or better - look out!  LOL!

 
yup, unless that was not your goal.

lots of people start out wanting a cool original car, buy something find out it won't meet the original goal, compromise because they feel invested in the project, go down that restomod road but are ultimately unhappy in the long run because while it might be the car of dreams it wasn't their dream so they sell it with a bitter taste and go off looking for the one they wanted but with more knowledge and a better defined goal.

 
OK, so I spent a little bit of time out in the garage tonight rolling around under the car and also pulling up the carpet a bit to get more of an idea of what I'm dealing with here.  For the most part I think I can report mostly good news.  The floors from what I can tell so far (only pulled up front) look pretty good. 

This first pic is the front passenger floor.  There was one funny looking area where the texture was strange so I used a wire brush to see what was under the white paint.  After scraping away and getting through some sticky residue I got to bare metal which looks pretty good.  All of the other dark spots seem to just be surface rust.





As for the underside of the car...it actually doesn't seem all too bad either.  I mean yeah there is rust but it too seems to be surface rust.  Some spots are worse than others but nothing crumbles or leads to any large holes or cracks from what I can tell.  The passenger fender is obviously pretty bad and needs to be replaced but I already knew that.  Obviously the battery tray area as well but I expected that too. The other thing I noticed was some sort of white undercoating that had been applied at some point and still exists in some areas.  When I peel it away there is some pretty nice looking metal underneath.  Looking up into the strut towers they don't look too terrible.  For the areas with really bad looking surface rust...honestly it seems to clean up OK as seen in the front crossmember pic.  I'm pretty optimistic.  More to come but tell me what you guys think about these pics.

Battery Tray area



Front Driver Side



Front Driver Side



Front Driver Strut Tower



Crossmember - Cleaned up little section



Another Front Driver Side



Front Driver...



Passenger side



Passenger side inside strut tower



Passenger Side



Passenger Side



Passenger side



Rear end



Rear Qtr - Passenger side



Little bit of a tranny fluid leak...  Lol



Under "protective" white coating



From back looking forward



Underside of passenger fender...  Bad...  I knew this had to be replaced



 
...and here are some interesting finds from inside the car today

Some election stickers from 1974 stuck to the underside of the center console cover. Funny because these are from Nevada so this car must have spent time there as well.



ATM receipt from 1994.  I was still in the 10th grade. 



Gasoline receipt 0.989 cents per gallon - 1993



 
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the rear sway bar looks like it came from an archeological dig!

It seems clear you will need springs front and rear as well as sway bars, shocks and a complete front suspension rebuild and brakes all the way around. I'd be shocked if you didn't need an engine, transmission and rear end rebuild

I'd start looking at prices and putting together a parts list with the prices and see what it is going to take.

Mostly It looks like you may be better off than some. I'd strip the car's engine transmission and interior as well as remove the front cap and all the glass and have the thing stripped with someone that does the dustless blasting process. Until then some of the repairs you will need to make will be hard to find. Try to organize parts removed and bag and label hardware even if it is bad, as it will help you find the replacement parts you need.

Definitely a major project, but doable if you have the finances, patience and time

 
My first question would be, "What are your skill levels when it comes to mechanical, metal work, and welding?" Then, I would ask, "How bad do you want this and how far are you willing to go (time, patience, and money) toward restoring this particular car?"  And finally, "How well adapted is your facility toward doing the work you need to do (as in, do you have the right tools, can you get them, do you have enough room, etc.?)?"

If you have decent or better skills, this won't be too difficult to tackle.  If this is the car you simply must have, then you'll need lots of all three: time, patience, and money.  If you have a good place to work with access to the tools you need, you can do this.

But first - and foremost - you need to find out what you have.  Again, if that is all just surface rust, once you eliminate it, you can go forward to putting the car back together.  If it's more than just surface rust, you might need to weigh your options and start looking at the car as a parts donor and maybe look around for a better specimen to restore.

Yes, mine also was a disaster from the get-go... possibly even one of the biggest disasters ever seen to date.  When I started out, I honestly had no idea what I was in for... but I had lots of time, lots of patience, and I knew I would be spending a big chunk of change to see it through.  I also had lots of determination, since I had so many haters telling me I couldn't do it - that can be a big motivator... trust me.  My skills were decent enough, but improved greatly after I began, and my confidence shot through the roof after I finished swapping the entire front clip.  A lot of the haters got real quiet real fast after that, and most have since eaten their words.

For those reasons, based on my own personal circumstances, I can't tell you to simply junk the car without first finding out what you have to work with.  As Dan mentioned, the major components of the front clip can be deal-breakers, especially since they are not reproduced.  If you have to go to another car for major replacement parts, you might consider jumping ship to that car instead, depending on its issues.  I tried to buy my donor car, but the salvage yard wouldn't sell it to me (title issues) - which would've been a helluva lot quicker... but then I would've had a "Mach 1 Clone," not a real Mach 1 since the donor car was a '72 Sportsroof.

At the very least, you need to pull the hood, fenders, engine & transmission, front suspension & steering, and dig into the front clip with some rust removal tools/methods.  If you find that it's just surface rust, count yourself lucky, finish stripping the car, and get it media blasted, dipped, et al., so you can start fresh with the rust abatement/metal replacement.  If it's bad or worse, you'll have a decision to make, as to whether to continue with the hard work, or go find another car.

Hope this helps!
Mr 4X4 check this out

Frame rail, shock tower and fender apron assembly

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/item_listing.asp

 
I am reading this with awe and admiration for all of you who have even contemplated rebuilding one of these awesome cars from basically junk yard scrap. What you have achieved is beyond anything I would have ever attempted even if I had the money to do so. I can see that level of expense on a Boss 351 or 429 CJ, SCJ as others noted, but to rebuild a 351 H code, well, not so much, but my (Mustang) hat is off to you.

 I am very  fortunate to have found a completely rust free (and I do mean rust free) car in California back in 08. I was not in the mood for a rusty car, but I did want something I could work on and replicate my "dream car". Turned out I had a Mach 1 that just had to stay somewhat original, so I still don't have "that" car.

I guess what I'm trying to get across is that while I got lucky, most of us are faced with major work and commitment...... and a very understanding wife! I think I'd be divorced by now if I spent the money some of you are dropping on your ride. 

The car in question here, looks like it spent many years sitting on grass on dirt as the rust looks typical of rising moisture. If the floors are good, then perhaps it's not as bad as it looks.

Good fortune,

Geoff.

 
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My first question would be, "What are your skill levels when it comes to mechanical, metal work, and welding?" Then, I would ask, "How bad do you want this and how far are you willing to go (time, patience, and money) toward restoring this particular car?"  And finally, "How well adapted is your facility toward doing the work you need to do (as in, do you have the right tools, can you get them, do you have enough room, etc.?)?"

If you have decent or better skills, this won't be too difficult to tackle.  If this is the car you simply must have, then you'll need lots of all three: time, patience, and money.  If you have a good place to work with access to the tools you need, you can do this.

But first - and foremost - you need to find out what you have.  Again, if that is all just surface rust, once you eliminate it, you can go forward to putting the car back together.  If it's more than just surface rust, you might need to weigh your options and start looking at the car as a parts donor and maybe look around for a better specimen to restore.

Yes, mine also was a disaster from the get-go... possibly even one of the biggest disasters ever seen to date.  When I started out, I honestly had no idea what I was in for... but I had lots of time, lots of patience, and I knew I would be spending a big chunk of change to see it through.  I also had lots of determination, since I had so many haters telling me I couldn't do it - that can be a big motivator... trust me.  My skills were decent enough, but improved greatly after I began, and my confidence shot through the roof after I finished swapping the entire front clip.  A lot of the haters got real quiet real fast after that, and most have since eaten their words.

For those reasons, based on my own personal circumstances, I can't tell you to simply junk the car without first finding out what you have to work with.  As Dan mentioned, the major components of the front clip can be deal-breakers, especially since they are not reproduced.  If you have to go to another car for major replacement parts, you might consider jumping ship to that car instead, depending on its issues.  I tried to buy my donor car, but the salvage yard wouldn't sell it to me (title issues) - which would've been a helluva lot quicker... but then I would've had a "Mach 1 Clone," not a real Mach 1 since the donor car was a '72 Sportsroof.

At the very least, you need to pull the hood, fenders, engine & transmission, front suspension & steering, and dig into the front clip with some rust removal tools/methods.  If you find that it's just surface rust, count yourself lucky, finish stripping the car, and get it media blasted, dipped, et al., so you can start fresh with the rust abatement/metal replacement.  If it's bad or worse, you'll have a decision to make, as to whether to continue with the hard work, or go find another car.

Hope this helps!
Mr 4X4 check this out

Frame rail, shock tower and fender apron assembly

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/item_listing.asp
  There is a server error on this link.

 
I am reading this with awe and admiration for all of you who have even contemplated rebuilding one of these awesome cars from basically junk yard scrap. What you have achieved is beyond anything I would have ever attempted even if I had the money to do so. I can see that level of expense on a Boss 351 or 429 CJ, SCJ as others noted, but to rebuild a 351 H code, well, not so much, but my (Mustang) hat is off to you.

 I am very  fortunate to have found a completely rust free (and I do mean rust free) car in California back in 08. I was not in the mood for a rusty car, but I did want something I could work on and replicate my "dream car". Turned out I had a Mach 1 that just had to stay somewhat original, so I still don't have "that" car.

I guess what I'm trying to get across is that while I got lucky, most of us are faced with major work and commitment...... and a very understanding wife! I think I'd be divorced by now if I spent the money some of you are dropping on your ride. 

The car in question here, looks like it spent many years sitting on grass on dirt as the rust looks typical of rising moisture. If the floors are good, then perhaps it's not as bad as it looks.

Good fortune,

Geoff.
Well this one is a 351 Q code...  So maybe that makes it a little better in some eyes.  :D

Yes from what I know this spent over 20 years sitting in a garage with a dirt floor.  For me, well I have plenty of time and as more time passes more money comes rolling in right?  LOL  It will definitely be a process.

I do indeed plan to strip the car and have a dustless blasting company come out to my house.  The car actually does run and sounds pretty good but I do also plan to rebuild the engine mostly because I want to make sure everything is good while also adding some HP! 

My "dream car" would not be white on white.  It would have a blue exterior but the history and originality of this car make me want to preserve rather than changing things around for my own benefit.  Believe me, when this project is done I will absolutely LOVE it!

 
the rear sway bar looks like it came from an archeological dig!  

It seems clear you will need springs front and rear as well as sway bars, shocks and a complete front suspension rebuild and brakes all the way around.  I'd be shocked if you didn't need an engine, transmission and rear end rebuild

I'd start looking at prices and putting together a parts list with the prices and see what it is going to take.

Mostly It looks like you may be better off than some.  I'd strip the car's engine transmission and interior as well as remove the front cap and all the glass and have the thing stripped with someone that does the dustless blasting process.  Until then some of the repairs you will need to make will be hard to find.  Try to organize parts removed and bag and label hardware even if it is bad, as it will help you find the replacement parts you need.

Definitely a major project, but doable if you have the finances, patience and time
Yeah you'd be surprised at how well this stuff cleans up.  The crossmember also looked like something from an archeology dig, but that one spot I worked at cleaned up pretty easily.  I don't mind having to replace suspension parts and I'd almost prefer to anyway.  I've already got the brakes, wheel cylinders, and more little parts I've been picking up here and there. 

I've already placed calls to several local dustless blasting companies and will have them out to give quotes once this process is further along.  I believe most of my glass is also original except maybe the windshield which appears to be an older service windshield (shat-r-proof) etched branding on lower passenger side.  I should probably have a glass company come out to remove the front and back for me.

Which parts do you think would be the most difficult to find?

 
I am reading this with awe and admiration for all of you who have even contemplated rebuilding one of these awesome cars from basically junk yard scrap. What you have achieved is beyond anything I would have ever attempted even if I had the money to do so. I can see that level of expense on a Boss 351 or 429 CJ, SCJ as others noted, but to rebuild a 351 H code, well, not so much, but my (Mustang) hat is off to you.

 I am very  fortunate to have found a completely rust free (and I do mean rust free) car in California back in 08. I was not in the mood for a rusty car, but I did want something I could work on and replicate my "dream car". Turned out I had a Mach 1 that just had to stay somewhat original, so I still don't have "that" car.

I guess what I'm trying to get across is that while I got lucky, most of us are faced with major work and commitment...... and a very understanding wife! I think I'd be divorced by now if I spent the money some of you are dropping on your ride. 

The car in question here, looks like it spent many years sitting on grass on dirt as the rust looks typical of rising moisture. If the floors are good, then perhaps it's not as bad as it looks.

Good fortune,

Geoff.
Well this one is a 351 Q code...  So maybe that makes it a little better in some eyes.  :D

Yes from what I know this spent over 20 years sitting in a garage with a dirt floor.  For me, well I have plenty of time and as more time passes more money comes rolling in right?  LOL  It will definitely be a process.

I do indeed plan to strip the car and have a dustless blasting company come out to my house.  The car actually does run and sounds pretty good but I do also plan to rebuild the engine mostly because I want to make sure everything is good while also adding some HP! 

My "dream car" would not be white on white.  It would have a blue exterior but the history and originality of this car make me want to preserve rather than changing things around for my own benefit.  Believe me, when this project is done I will absolutely LOVE it!
 That's awesome! I think it to be totally doable and yes, a "Q" code is still a worthwhile car..... as they all are actually. My dream car, I posted pictures recently of a model I have, would be a 71, Grabber Lime with a deluxe black interior, 4V "M" code (or 429CJ) 4 speed and more, but alas I fear the model is as close as I'll come to it now....... unless!!

 I'll look forward to reading the progress reports from time to time.

 
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My first question would be, "What are your skill levels when it comes to mechanical, metal work, and welding?" Then, I would ask, "How bad do you want this and how far are you willing to go (time, patience, and money) toward restoring this particular car?"  And finally, "How well adapted is your facility toward doing the work you need to do (as in, do you have the right tools, can you get them, do you have enough room, etc.?)?"

If you have decent or better skills, this won't be too difficult to tackle.  If this is the car you simply must have, then you'll need lots of all three: time, patience, and money.  If you have a good place to work with access to the tools you need, you can do this.

But first - and foremost - you need to find out what you have.  Again, if that is all just surface rust, once you eliminate it, you can go forward to putting the car back together.  If it's more than just surface rust, you might need to weigh your options and start looking at the car as a parts donor and maybe look around for a better specimen to restore.

Yes, mine also was a disaster from the get-go... possibly even one of the biggest disasters ever seen to date.  When I started out, I honestly had no idea what I was in for... but I had lots of time, lots of patience, and I knew I would be spending a big chunk of change to see it through.  I also had lots of determination, since I had so many haters telling me I couldn't do it - that can be a big motivator... trust me.  My skills were decent enough, but improved greatly after I began, and my confidence shot through the roof after I finished swapping the entire front clip.  A lot of the haters got real quiet real fast after that, and most have since eaten their words.

For those reasons, based on my own personal circumstances, I can't tell you to simply junk the car without first finding out what you have to work with.  As Dan mentioned, the major components of the front clip can be deal-breakers, especially since they are not reproduced.  If you have to go to another car for major replacement parts, you might consider jumping ship to that car instead, depending on its issues.  I tried to buy my donor car, but the salvage yard wouldn't sell it to me (title issues) - which would've been a helluva lot quicker... but then I would've had a "Mach 1 Clone," not a real Mach 1 since the donor car was a '72 Sportsroof.

At the very least, you need to pull the hood, fenders, engine & transmission, front suspension & steering, and dig into the front clip with some rust removal tools/methods.  If you find that it's just surface rust, count yourself lucky, finish stripping the car, and get it media blasted, dipped, et al., so you can start fresh with the rust abatement/metal replacement.  If it's bad or worse, you'll have a decision to make, as to whether to continue with the hard work, or go find another car.

Hope this helps!
Mr 4X4 check this out

Frame rail, shock tower and fender apron assembly

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/item_listing.asp
That's why I love ya so much, Don!  They always seem to come up with the new repop parts right after I'd already done it the hard way - and you always make sure I'm well-informed of the new products.  rofl

You rock, Brutha! ::thumb::

-----

Here's the listing.  You'll need to contact OMS for purchase and shipping information, since they're giant pieces that will require special shipping considerations.

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/item_listing.asp?pcid=3&L1=BODY AND SHEETMETAL&L2=&p=57&ps=10

 
That's why I love ya so much, Don!  They always seem to come up with the new repop parts right after I'd already done it the hard way - and you always make sure I'm well-informed of the new products.  rofl

You rock, Brutha! ::thumb::

-----

Here's the listing.  You'll need to contact OMS for purchase and shipping information, since they're giant pieces that will require special shipping considerations.

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/item_listing.asp?pcid=3&L1=BODY AND SHEETMETAL&L2=&p=57&ps=10
Eric, check out my pics on page 3 of this thread and let me know what you think.  I spent some time under the car yesterday evening and also pulled up the front carpet to take a look.

 
I don't think there is much of anything you can't find with the exception of the panel that fits between the front bumper and the brackets on the 71-72, nice urethane bumpers, 73 bumper brackets, nice 73 front bumpers and maybe a few odds and ends when it comes to sheet metal repair in the trunk area. While not everything is reproduced, there are lots of good used parts.

 
That's why I love ya so much, Don!  They always seem to come up with the new repop parts right after I'd already done it the hard way - and you always make sure I'm well-informed of the new products.  rofl

You rock, Brutha! ::thumb::

-----

Here's the listing.  You'll need to contact OMS for purchase and shipping information, since they're giant pieces that will require special shipping considerations.

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/item_listing.asp?pcid=3&L1=BODY AND SHEETMETAL&L2=&p=57&ps=10
Eric, check out my pics on page 3 of this thread and let me know what you think.  I spent some time under the car yesterday evening and also pulled up the front carpet to take a look.
I'll have to check them out this evening when I get home.  The proxy server won't let me see your pics from work.  It sounds like you might've found some good news, though - and that's exciting!  Glad to hear it! ::thumb::

 
All those pictures again do not tell you much. the surface can look like hell and everything is fine underneath.

the White is old rubber undercoating (black that turns white from weathering)

here is the money shot



you need to look inside that area under the upper A-arm both sides.

you need to clean that area get all the loose junk out and start poking it with a screwdriver and try to get a photo of it to see how it looks.

the shock tower will form cracks in the sheet metal at the corners.

the front Strut rod cross member will rot at the overlap of metal at the frame rails there is a drain hole there but the dirt/water gets in between the metal layers and it rots from the inside out.

 
If you are serious about doing it right, poking it, looking at it, hoping... doesn't cut it. Strip the car to metal and have it blasted or dipped, whatever suits your taste/budget. Only then can you begin to understand the work necessary to bring the car back and whether you want to proceed. Otherwise, take your chances...

 
Hey Mike - I'm seeing good news.  I think you're on the right track and so far lucky as Hell that it appears to be worse than it is - the undercoating saved that car's life, if you ask me.  Definitely go through with the stripping plans and I think you'll be rewarded with even more good news.  I'm thinking there will be some bad spots you'll need to repair, but all in all, it's looking really good so far.  The shot of the upper aprons on what appears to be the driver side looks like it might be one of those bad spots - stripping it all down will tell for sure.  Definitely the battery tray is toast... and completely normal for a car in this condition.  Suspension replacement is the best way forward as well, but I'm still really excited for you regarding what you've found so far.  The rear axle is no biggie - it's the stuff inside that's more important - that housing will clean up (ask me how I know - mine is original to my car as well and looked at lot worse than yours).  Pulling the diff and rebuilding with new bearings and seals should take care of that.

But Dan's right - you're going to want to really look closely at the shock tower areas and for the exact reasons he outlined.

You're also going to want to get into the cowl and check for signs of damage as Dan mentioned as well.  The firewall & front floor pans not being damaged is a big indicator that you might've gotten lucky with the cowl (since when it rusts through the cowl, it'll roll down the firewall and rot out the floor pans).  Even pin holes need to be addressed and will be an indicator of bigger issues. Keepin' 'em crossed for ya, all the same.

I'm still stoked for ya - this is looking very promising.  Like Jeff said, almost all of the normal bad spots now have repop pieces you can replace and/or repair... so even if there are some bad areas, you can still move forward on this car.  Especially, being a Q-Code... I think it's a keeper. ::thumb::

Good job, Brutha!  Keep us posted!

 
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