Gatormc9's 1971 Vert Adventure

[mach71351c]

Congrats! Keep us posted on the next faze.

 

[73StangCoupe]

Awesome work! Love the color, is that ivy glow?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[gatormc9]

Awesome work! Love the color, is that ivy glow?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Thanks! The color is Medium Metallic Green.

 

[will e]

Great job! Getting her back on the road after that long must have been really satisfying! It looks great.

 

[gatormc9]

Long time no update. Work and life have slowed me down, but I was able to get back to it this past weekend. I pulled the transmission out for a long overdue (40+ year) rebuild. I'm adding a stage 2 Transgo shift kit to make the C-4 a little more stout. Unfortunately, I was hit with a small case of stupid and opened the garage door while the car was all the way up on the lift. I've got a nice long/deep scratch in the hood now...live and learn I guess. Fortunately, I have a friend that can repair it pretty cheap. In the mean time, I have a difficult decision. Do I pull the engine this weekend and start the rebuild process, or do I wait and put the tranny back in to see how it performs. I am concerned about the ticking (assumed bad lifter) coming from the passenger side, and I don't want to cause more damage to the motor by continuing to drive it. However, if I'm going to rebuild it anyway, how much damage can I really do.

Second dilemma is about the rebuild. So many options!!!!! I know I need to get the motor out and disassemble it to see what I am working with. I am pretty certain the engine has never been rebuilt (I have the service records dating back to 1974), so the block has never been over bored. I really want to find a set of used Trick Flow or AFR heads. I already bought a used Edelbrock 4 barrel carb/intake. Do I go roller, or stick with hydraulic flat tappet. What cam, pistons, crank?!?! Too many decisions! I'd like to keep the cost down, but I'm not super constrained on the budget. If I can get buy with used parts for the expensive stuff (heads), then I can go new with the other components like cam, exhaust, etc. This will be my first engine build, so I am a little anxious to get it right and not regret foregoing a smart upgrade here or there.

[PICTURE UPDATE]

Found a bolt in the drain pan



Nasty crud is caked onto everything!



Having a lift makes this a breeze compared to pulling the T-5 on the ground years ago.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

One inexpensive option is to pull the valve covers and the intake manifold and go ahead and just replace all the lifters-lifters only cost about $50 bucks a set.

If it is just a lifter going bad, you may get many more miles and years out of the engine. If it is a bent pushrod or loose rocker arm you'll see that too.

While you are at it you can upgrade your intake and carburetor and tune it all to work together. Until you go with a cam change, the heads aren't going to help with performance enough to justify the cost.

As I have made modifications to my car, I have always known I would eventually need an engine. I used the worn engine until I had a catastrophic failure, and then used the information I had gleaned by modding it to help guide me in my selection of parts for my build. While I have assembled heads to a shortblock in the past and have rebuilt some smaller engines, this was the biggest project I ever tackled, but being meticulous and not getting in a rush paid off.

Based on what I see in this thread, it is well within your capabilities.

 

[gatormc9]

Thanks Jeff, I'm not one to ignore good advice. I decided to take off the manifold and valve covers today. Lo and behold, look what I found on the passenger side...



I also found several of these little caps lying on the bottom, under both covers.



Here are some other pictures from the tear down so far. As you can see, there was quite a bit of caked oil in there. I used a shop vac to remove as much as I could.







Are these passages supposed to be blocked on both heads.



There is another spot in the rear of the block that looks like a blocked passage. On the bottom left of this picture.



I'm going to start pulling the push rods and lifters now to make sure there is no other damage. If not, and I can figure out where those caps go, I'm going to put it all back together right, add the new 4 barrel carb/intake, new headers/exhaust, and just keep driving it for now.

 

[gpierce]

Can't see how that rocker could come off there like that unless the pushrod is bent or the stud backed out or is broken. Doesn't look like the stud is broken??

 

[gatormc9]

Yeah, it's definitely weird. That push rod wasn't bent that I could tell, it rolls straight on a flat surface. However, from the wear marks you can tell that it was like this for many years. My only thought is that the rocker arm bold was not torqued properly at some point. The other issue I found were the small caps (2 pass., one driver). They actually go on the valve stem and the rocker pushes on those. With 3 of them gone, I'm sure that affects the geometry for those valves. However, the rocker arm in question still had its valve cap.

 

[Totalled]

Dude... That motor was soooo close to dropping a valve. Nice save.

 

[1973grandeklar]

Not to complicate your goal, but if the transmission is coming out for service, yank the motor. Just replace all the gaskets with the intent of cleaning and put back together. You will love the repainted motor look and help solve a lot of oil leaks. Clean and put right back in and you will feel better about the motor.

Just my 2 cents. Looks like a fun project!

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Looking at what you have found I will advise based upon my preferences, there are other courses of action that make equal sense

Pull the heads-they need to be either replaced or rebuilt. If the pistons or bores are damaged pull the motor. If not,

Rotate engine over by hand and check cam lift at each lobe-odds are you have cam damage and will need to replace it.

If the cam has to come out pull the engine and replace all gaskets and the oil pump. Inspect the main bearings, if they are okay, odds are the rod bearings are okay-if anything feels funny when turning the shortblock over, tear it all the way down and either rering and replace the bearings or go forward with a complete rebuild.

 

[gatormc9]

So, against the sound advice I've received here on this forum...I decide to just slap it back together and roll with it for now. LOL. Last weekend I torqued all the rocker arms back up, installed the new Eddy Intake and rebuilt 4 bbl carb. I re-installed the freshly rebuilt C4 transmission, and swapped the old manifolds for the new Hooker headers. The summit exhaust gave me some trouble, partially because the driver side header comes out at a steeper angle than the passenger side. I had to do some persuading to get that side to straighten up...and I'm not super happy with the results. At the end of the day, I was able to get it hung back to the mufflers so at least it sounds OK. I can now get it to a muffler shop in the future and have them make it right...but it will work for now. I would really just like to get 6-12 months more out of this engine and rebuild either a roller 302 or a 351C on the side while the car is still a driver. If it breaks before then I'll just yank it and deal with it.

After putting it back together, I was able to get it started but it was obvious that I had carb/timing/vacuum/etc issues. The previous timing mark (yellow mark on the balancer) was around 6-7* BTDC, so I silver sharpied it and set it to that initially. If I punched the gas in gear it would just die, and I couldn't get it to idle properly,and it seemed to be surging. I bought a new timing light with tach and a vacuum gauge kit this week. Today I moved the dist. advance vacuum hose to the full manifold port, changed where the accelerator pump bar was connected on the carb, and bumped my timing closer to the 10-12* mark. What a difference! She is idling much better (although still high around 980-1000rpm) and when I punch the gas in gear, my tire spins! This is huge difference from before the intake/exhaust swap.

Unfortunately, after a quick run around the block, I was stopped, put it in reverse, and a horrible rattle started. It happens any time I'm stopped but in gear. No issues in neutral or park. Once the wife got home I was able to look underneath and at the engine mounts. I think I just need to adjust and tighten down the exhaust hangers because the passenger side is beating against the under body.

Pictures coming soon, for now I will leave you with just one. The former owner found some pictures of the car from years ago after it was rear ended. It wasn't driven much after this accident, even after it was fixed. I am guessing the transmission failed soon after the car was fixed up and then it sat for 15 years. I wonder if this accident actually caused the rocker arm problem, could that be the case???

 

[gatormc9]

The car is running pretty good now. I adjusted the brakes and got the engine idling nicely at 850 rpm and ~21 inHg vacuum. I can spin my one tire with the best of them. Now it's time to start building confidence in the car. So far I haven't had it out of my neighborhood, but I'm hoping for a longer ride today. It's beautiful weather here in FL and I'm planning on taking the wife out for a lunch run here shortly. There is still work to do for sure, the power steering seems a little lazy, and the top/interior need work. Overall, I'm pretty happy with where it's at right about now.

 

[gatormc9]

I was a little nervous last weekend to take the car on it's first "long" drive outside the neighborhood, but we made it back! Went across the causeway to the beach and we could not have had better weather. My wife's only complaint is the seat covers...lol! I added the rear sway bar tonight and I think it helped with the "over steer" that I was feeling coming out of corners. It felt like I needed to counter steer because the rear was (for lack of a better term) swaying. Tomorrow I'm taking it in for an alignment. I'm hoping that fixes the front end wobble that I'm getting around 45-50 mph. It smooths out some around 55-60mph. Considering all the suspension work that was done, it is driving OK without an alignment. I also got a Monte Carlo bar with the LMM kit, so I may try to install that tomorrow before the alignment. I'm not sure how much difference it's going to make, but I have it and I think it will clear the distributor, so I might as well put it in. I've been slacking on uploading pictures, but I do have a bunch coming.

 

[73vertproject]

Thanks for the updates. Sounds like things are going well. If it were me, I would find a 351C and start rebuilding it "just in case".

Good work so far! ::thumb::

 

[gatormc9]

Hello all, it's been a long time, but I have the fever back and it is getting close to time for continuing this build. A lot has changed in my life, and unfortunately, I no longer have the house with that awesome lift! However, I do have money to spend on this car now, and I want a reliable driver that has a wow factor. I am not going to be able to do most of the work myself, the car, my tools, etc are in a 10x20 storage unit and I travel a lot. Sometimes I am gone 3 or 4 months at a time. When I come home, I want to be able to jump in, turn the key, and drive the car (for the most part). In November I will be home and I am going to meet with at least one recommended shop that is the primary candidate to build the car for me.

In the meantime, I am looking to start buying parts. I am leaning toward a Blueprint 347 crate engine from summit. And I want EFI so I am thinking about the Edelbrock ProFlo 4 system. Other ideas for the first phase of this build (phase 1 is getting it to reliable fun weekend driver) is a new convertible top, and new rims/tires. I need to figure out if the freshly rebuilt C4 transmission is going to be ok short term for the 347, or does that have to be changed also. I expect it will bolt up fine, but can it handle the 400+ hp from the engine (I don't plan to race it, just cruising).

Anyway, I have lots of questions and I am glad to be back here on this great forum. It was an awesome experience getting the car on the road after so long, and I hate seeing it sit once again. I am determined to make it live up to it's potential.

Should I start a new thread, or just continue with this one?

 

[timachone]

Welcome back ::thumb:: 

Nice to see that you don't lost your fever and could keep the Mustang!

Life is always changing and you never know how things can evolve. Don't ask how I know... 

I would go on in this thread!

Keep up the work and posts and never say die ::thumb::

 

[mach71351c]

Welcome back.

 

[gatormc9]

I met with the guy that will be working on the car a few weeks ago. I was really impressed with the shop, the other projects he was working on, and his overall passion for classic cars. Because of work travel, I had to push the start date to early February, instead of January. The best part is that my wife also came along for the shop visit, and she is just as excited as I am to get the car on the road full time.

In the meantime I'm still kicking around ideas for the build. He suggested the Holley Sniper EFI, and he actually had a '69 Camaro at the shop with that system on it. It looked good, started right up, and sounded great. Reading the reviews, it looks like a quality EFI system, and I don't have any allegiance to Holley or Edelbrock, so I'll probably go with the Holley. We are also starting the search for an explorer rear end to swap in the 8.8 inch rear with disc brakes. I need to figure out which years are the best fit. Is it any early 90's Explorer or Sport Trac? Obviously, I still have plenty of research to do.