has anyone gone the EFI route?

[cazsper]

Regardless of your engine, has anyone here gone the EFI route? If so, duff you go the factory 5.0 style or aftermarket? How do you like it? If you're considering it, what setup are you looking at?

 

[JimNiki]

I was looking at that recently but I decided on the pertronix billet ignitor III dizzy instead...

A mate has done a few 350 boat engines and converted them to efi using crank triggers, holden coils, etc.

Because he's aready using the ls1edit software for his ute anyway, setting this up isn't so daunting for him.

But by the time you buy all the bits and pieces, it still adds up to quite a bit of money...

The other option which grabbed my attention is a full ecu controlled system all self contained in a carby.

They are between 2-3k but! That why I stuck with a new dizzy for now.

I'll probably get better heads before efi ...more bang for buck... just my 0.2c plus tax.

 

[cazsper]

The reason I ask is because over the years, I have accumulated almost everything I need to convert a Windsor to EFI. To convert a Cleveland, I need an intake and distributer.. just an idea. I have seen some of these "self learning" kits that look great but I don't know if I truly trust it..

 

[jbojo]

The reason I ask is because over the years, I have accumulated almost everything I need to convert a Windsor to EFI. To convert a Cleveland, I need an intake and distributer.. just an idea. I have seen some of these "self learning" kits that look great but I don't know if I truly trust it..

I got the MSD EFI kit but haven't installed it yet. It can control the ignition timing, cooling fans and is self learning however a little pricey. Reason I chose this one is because it still looks like a carb however it has all the modern technology to improve emissions and mileage. You also have the ability to modify the parameters to customize it to your engine. Looks pretty simple to install and I'll have an update on my build thread when I install it. It's the first thing that I do once my car is back from paint.

-jbojo

 

[cazsper]

Nice.. I'll look into it.. I hope it works out.. I was interested in the Mass Flo EFI system but there's not a lot of reviews on it.

 

[jbojo]

Nice.. I'll look into it.. I hope it works out.. I was interested in the Mass Flo EFI system but there's not a lot of reviews on it.

Look on YouTube, lots of videos on MSD Atomic EFI systems.

-jbojo

 

[Silverback]

Ive thought about it but haven't done anything in that direction. Ive converted an sbc victor jr manifold to efi, so I don't see any problem with a Cleaveland. If anything it would be easier. I even have the fuel rail stock and a 4bbl throttle body sitting around and a few choices for ecm.

Honestly for a driver if you're willing to sacrifice some top end for driveability and economy bolting on a truck tbi setup would be simple and cheap

 

[cazsper]

Currently, I have a brand new games from Ford, an Accufab Throttlebody, Pro-M MAF, and an Edelbrock EFI intake as well as a box intake from Trick Flow for a Windsor. I was planning that for my supercharged 415W for my '68 coupe (heaven forbid I put a Windsor in a '73..lol). For my Mach-1, I'm jumping back and forth with motor and induction options and just wanted to know what everyone else was doing..

 

[tempestairbrush]

If your going fuel injected don't do what I did and buy someone else's headache, spend the money and research you and get a good quality brand new system unless you feel like spending countless hours figuring out someone's mess. I bought a used Holley Pro commander 950 TBI to put in my wrangler with the full ignition timing control on a SBC 350. When I bought it I got it used on Ebay and the kit was complete how ever I had to send the computer back to Holley to get it updated just so it would even work with their software. Once I got the computer back I had to replace most of the sensors and fix a bunch of loose connectors just due to age. The problem I realized is all these extra wires and sensors lead to more areas for problems and stuff to go wrong vs a carb. I would get the system up and running well, as I use the Jeep as My daily driver, then after a few months of running well one sensor or small item in the system will just go bad, maybe the china made parts for example 2 months ago after I turned the key off on the jeep the computer decided to keep the fuel pump on even with no key power on. I did a lot of research and found out this is just one flaw in the system so the option was don't use the fuel pump wire from the computer. The system I have has lots of small flaws like that, however I believe Holley has worked out in their self tuning systems. This system also is a NON self tuning EFI and it took forever to tune, being someone has to hold a laptop in the passenger seat and you have to drive around in complete different driving conditions modifying the fuel map at each RPM vs Map cell. I feel a throttle body injection system has very few benefits from a carb especially a non wide band O2 sensor, one thing I do like about the system over a carb is I go out there and once its tuned right you turn the key in any temp and it fires right up and runs great and adjusts itself. The second thing about the commander 950 I appreciate now is I went from knowing very little about fuel injection, as only messing with carb's in the past to at least on this system knowing how everything works in conjunction to make it work.

 

[droptop73]

I am planning an Exploder 5.0 swap. It's lighter, more efficient and will make the same power as my mild Cleveland. I can get an ECM and rebuild a 5.0 for less than it would cost for one of the throttlebody kits. Yes a conversion could be built from factory parts for the 351C but it could turn into a major headache to get it running right. Besides where do you get parts for a custom EFI set-up late at night in the middle of nowhere?

 

[cazsper]

That's mostly why I chose my parts. It's basically the mustang 5.0 setup but I've upgraded the throttle body, MAF, and intake. But the other kits look so much cleaner. My main concern, like you mentioned, is that it would need some part that I could only special order.

 

[Mesozoic]

I've done this on several Mustangs and in the process of doing this to my '71.

I have also done this on a 400M, which as many of you know, is a tall deck Cleveland. If injecting a Cleveland is the game plan (and it should be, I love these engines for their excellent heads and lack of coolant in the intake), look to Price Motorsports for intake adapters and choose any 351W EFI intake you want. On my 400 I ran the GT40 351W lower. I absolutely hate distributors, so go ahead and buy a cam sync sensor from Price as well, or build one up using parts from a Windstar van and a 5.0 Exploder. EDIS8 is simply amazing.

For electronics, I prefer the stock Ford stuff. It is extremely well engineered, it is made by Ford, and I have found that it outperforms any EFI system on the market by a wide margin. You have 2 options in this regard:

Option 1: GUFB strategy (A9L, X3Z, A9P, etc.) EEC-IV computer and harness from an '89-93 5.0 Mustang. Certainly the more popular swap.

Option 2: CDAN4 strategy EEC-V computer and harness from a '96 Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/T-Bird/Mustang/Cougar with a V8.

Option 1 is good and can easily be modified to support EDIS8. Option 2 is better, has integrated EDIS8, and supports late model electronically controlled transmissions such as the AODE and 4R70W. Option 2 will also support much higher RPM due to a microprocessor upgrade (higher clock rate).

Both systems are easily tuned using Clint Garrity's Binary Editor software and either a Moates Quarterhorse (recommended) or TwEECer RT. Both hardware units are J3 commanding systems.

I own an '89 5.0 Mustang and the injected 400M is in a '79 Bronco, so I have been tuning these things for over 10 years. My Bronco runs so sweet, it's ridiculous. The 5.0 Mustang is supercharged and the EEC-IV deals with it flawlessly. You own a Ford, look no further than Ford for fuel injection. They have really done their homework.

 

[JimNiki]

You certainly know your stuff.

Retro fitting EFI on our dinosaurs is getting more and more prevalent...

I feel we are just about ready for some guru to write up a nice easy to understand tutorial with photos and options.

I'm volunteering you! Hehe

I'd say you would be one of the coolest techno geeks on this great forum.... congrats!

 

[Mesozoic]

You certainly know your stuff.

Retro fitting EFI on our dinosaurs is getting more and more prevalent...

I feel we are just about ready for some guru to write up a nice easy to understand tutorial with photos and options.

I'm volunteering you! Hehe

I'd say you would be one of the coolest techno geeks on this great forum.... congrats!

Hehe thanks, I'll gladly photo document this process in another thread and provide a link to it from here.

 

[Totalled]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-51611116/overview/

+

EFI TFI style 460 distributor

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EEC-IV or EEC-V Ford injection.

 

[cazsper]

Wow, thank you. Another option it's an intake from Trick Flow. It's a modern 5.0L style (upper/lower) design but they do offer a lower for the Cleveland. As for the upper, they offer a long runner as well as a short runner "box" style as well. The box intake does sit pretty high unfortunately. I've also read that for being a box intake, you don't lose any power on the bottom end but it does breath better on the top end.

 

[Mesozoic]

Wow, thank you. Another option it's an intake from Trick Flow. It's a modern 5.0L style (upper/lower) design but they do offer a lower for the Cleveland. As for the upper, they offer a long runner as well as a short runner "box" style as well. The box intake does sit pretty high unfortunately. I've also read that for being a box intake, you don't lose any power on the bottom end but it does breath better on the top end.

Trickflow makes excellent components. Their heads are hands down some of the best for SBFs. I have also wondered whether the RPM range specified by an intake really matters for EFI. Apparently, it doesn't. Folks are running the Edelbrock Victor 5.8 intake with the short runner upper (rated for 4500+ RPM) and it makes tons of low end torque on a 351-427W setup. In fact, this is the route that I ended up taking.

My 408M Cleveland setup has a ported GT40 351W lower bolted onto Price Motorsports adapter plates. I have a '93 Cobra upper bolted to that and running a 65mm throttle body. 70mm MAF from a '93 Cobra as well, A9L EEC-IV control with EDIS8 (coil packs). It doesn't lack power or torque anywhere in the rev range, but seems to peak around 4000 RPM with a flat tappet hydraulic 4x4 cam.

 

[cazsper]

I hate to sound like I'm criticizing, but aren't those 5.0L parts rather small for a 400 inch motor? I use to have a '95 GT with a 383w with Edelbrock heads (milled for compression) and a 5.8L lower intake with a ported '93 Cobra intake. I swapped for a set of AFR-185 heads and an Extrude Honed Trick Flow long runner intake. I lost .75 compression (9:1 to 8.25:1) and gained 38 rwhp. I'm not saying it's the answer, but it's something to consider..


As for those adapter plates, do they make any adapter plates or only 5.0 to ,5.8 adapter plates? I've always thought it would be cool to see a big Kenne Bell on a stroked windsor..

 

[Stangrpunk72]

I went the EFI route on my 72 coupe and couldn't be happier. its got a explorer 5.0 in it fired by an A9p with upgraded injectors , maf and throttle body. eventually I want to do turbo Windsor with full stand alone engine management



I don't want to boast but im pleased with my setup, I thought it came out rather awesome.