Has anyone heard of the FiTech PAC EFI unit?

[tony-muscle]

Their are very unresponsive via email. I asked in early December if it works with the Duraspark module and have not heard from them.

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

[EdM]

Anyone tried calling them?

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

The Holley unit coming out in 3 months looks IDENTICAL! Which suggest Holley is using the supplier to make private label parts-that being said why is it going to take another 3 months for Holley to put them on the market? hmmmmm

 

[TommyK]

The Holley unit coming out in 3 months looks IDENTICAL! Which suggest Holley is using the supplier to make private label parts-that being said why is it going to take another 3 months for Holley to put them on the market? hmmmmm

The posts to date on VMF suggest a supply issue so I would imagine that has something to do with it.

 

[tony-muscle]

I talked to FiTech on Thursday. According to the person I talked to, which seemed pretty knowledgeable, at this point they don't know if the ignition control works with a Duraspark ignition or distributor. He basically says that anything is possible, but they have not yet tested it. They obviously have done a lot of testing with MSD distributors and boxes. He recommended looking at Top Street Performance (TSP) distributors. Theirs are compatible with MSD at a lesser cost. He said that MSD's phasable rotor is compatible with TSP distributor, which makes the phasing adjustment a lot easier. Looking at TSP's website it seems that the JM6606 should be a good option No vacuum advance, but you don't need it when controlling the timing via the EFI unit. I guess you would use this distributor with MSD's Street Fire box. They also have a ready-to-run option but at a higher price. Have any of you heard or used TSP distributors?

 

[vozaday]

I was just looking at this. Good info guys, please keep it coming. I like the Fi Tech has the pump in the engine bay and uses the stock fuel pump to feed it, no messing with the fuel tank and lines. Price seems good, especially since the canadian dollar is so low.

 

[basstrix]

Thanks for the follow-up, Tony. I sent them another email and even mentioned that a few of us on this board were waiting to hear their response. Disappointing that they don't pay attention to their inbox but good to hear they gave you some feedback. Maybe we'll get lucky and it will work with the DS-1 module.

 

[Don C]

I talked to FiTech on Thursday. According to the person I talked to, which seemed pretty knowledgeable, at this point they don't know if the ignition control works with a Duraspark ignition or distributor. He basically says that anything is possible, but they have not yet tested it. They obviously have done a lot of testing with MSD distributors and boxes. He recommended looking at Top Street Performance (TSP) distributors. Theirs are compatible with MSD at a lesser cost. He said that MSD's phasable rotor is compatible with TSP distributor, which makes the phasing adjustment a lot easier. Looking at TSP's website it seems that the JM6606 should be a good option No vacuum advance, but you don't need it when controlling the timing via the EFI unit. I guess you would use this distributor with MSD's Street Fire box. They also have a ready-to-run option but at a higher price. Have any of you heard or used TSP distributors?

I've been looking at wiring diagrams, trying to figure out if the Duraspark module can be used with FiTech's timing control. It appears there should be no problem using a Duraspark distributor (with advance locked) to trigger the timing function in the FiTech controller. The problem will be in trying to use the output from FiTech to trigger the Duraspark module. The output from the FiTech controller provides a ground, the same as points, to charge the coil, and when the ground is dropped the coil will fire.The only timing input on the Duraspark module is from the magnetic pickup in the Duraspark distributor and additional circuitry would likely be required to adapt the FiTech output to the Duraspark module input. The reason an MSD 6AI box works is because it has inputs for both points and magnetic pickups.

In any case, an external box is not needed with the FiTech controller.

A TFI distributor will not work, which is too bad because it has the advantage of not having to lock the advance mechanism. The TFI uses a hall effect switch, which requires a power source, and it appears that the FiTech controller does not supply any power on its 2-wire distributor connection.

 

[Mister 4x4]

I don't know how relevant this is, but the Edelbrock E-Street doesn't require distributor interface in order to work... but I'm also not saying that you can't connect it all up and have the FI ECU be the brains of the whole system or anything. I believe it will also "adapt" and might also only require a tach signal, which can be had from the '+' side of the coil.

I have DS-II, and I'm just planning on dropping the Edelbrock TBI unit in with its high-pressure 1-gal. reservoir (under hood) and run it with a returnless system with a 7psi electric 'lift' pump back by the tank (which is my current set-up with the Edelbrock 1406 Performer 4bbl). The only thing left after that is to run power to the ECU, and weld-in a bung for the O2 sensor - everything else is on-board the TBI unit.

I'm not tossing out a plug for Edelbrock, either - it ain't exactly cheap, after all. But Edelbrock always answers their phones... just sayin'. :whistling:

 

[basstrix]

With the FI Tech system it is also optional to use the timing control. My main questions to them were:

1. Is the timing control compatible with DS-I (like it is with an MSD box).

2. In the case it is not compatible, does the FI Tech ignition use variable dwell control (as is the case with DS-I).

I guess I should just call them.

 

[tony-muscle]

The FiTech setup would work without ignition control. That's a users choice. Actually, they just came out with a model that doesn't have the ignition control at all for a lower price, which makes sense for those that don't want to keep their current ignition control.

Since I was planing on upgrading my ignition I thought I might as well make it compatible with the brains of the EFI. I don't know there will be much of a performance advantage. However, the neat factor is that you can program your advance curve with the handheld interface.

With the FI Tech system it is also optional to use the timing control. My main questions to them were:

1. Is the timing control compatible with DS-I (like it is with an MSD box).

2. In the case it is not compatible, does the FI Tech ignition use variable dwell control (as is the case with DS-I).

I guess I should just call them.

Once I called them they were very good. Via email not so.

His response to question 1 was that they have not tested compatibility, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. They recommend the MSD like distributor (or the TSP per my post) because how easy is to lock the mechanical advance and to phase the rotor with MSD's phasable rotor add on. Not impossible with the Duraspark distributor, but it will require mods. I think you can weld or screw the weights in place. And for phasing you may have to modify the rotor with an adjustable slot or use the advance mechanism to phase it before locking it.

I did not ask question 2 so I am interested to hear about it. However, if one goes the MSD box route I think the variable dwell is taken care of with the multi spark.

 

[tony-muscle]

I talked to FiTech on Thursday. According to the person I talked to, which seemed pretty knowledgeable, at this point they don't know if the ignition control works with a Duraspark ignition or distributor. He basically says that anything is possible, but they have not yet tested it. They obviously have done a lot of testing with MSD distributors and boxes. He recommended looking at Top Street Performance (TSP) distributors. Theirs are compatible with MSD at a lesser cost. He said that MSD's phasable rotor is compatible with TSP distributor, which makes the phasing adjustment a lot easier. Looking at TSP's website it seems that the JM6606 should be a good option No vacuum advance, but you don't need it when controlling the timing via the EFI unit. I guess you would use this distributor with MSD's Street Fire box. They also have a ready-to-run option but at a higher price. Have any of you heard or used TSP distributors?

I've been looking at wiring diagrams, trying to figure out if the Duraspark module can be used with FiTech's timing control. It appears there should be no problem using a Duraspark distributor (with advance locked) to trigger the timing function in the FiTech controller. The problem will be in trying to use the output from FiTech to trigger the Duraspark module. The output from the FiTech controller provides a ground, the same as points, to charge the coil, and when the ground is dropped the coil will fire.The only timing input on the Duraspark module is from the magnetic pickup in the Duraspark distributor and additional circuitry would likely be required to adapt the FiTech output to the Duraspark module input. The reason an MSD 6AI box works is because it has inputs for both points and magnetic pickups.

In any case, an external box is not needed with the FiTech controller.

A TFI distributor will not work, which is too bad because it has the advantage of not having to lock the advance mechanism. The TFI uses a hall effect switch, which requires a power source, and it appears that the FiTech controller does not supply any power on its 2-wire distributor connection.

You are correct. That's what I see with the Duraspark as well. If one wanted to really use the DS I am sure the signals can be made compatible by someone knowledgeable in electronics. I will venture to say that because the MSD box already has both inputs it should have a way to convert them internally. Maybe it will be a good idea to open an old MSD box and hack the "conversion" circuit, if it can be separated.

 

[Don C]

An interesting thing about old MSD boxes, they were based on Duraspark, so there should definitely be some similarities.

 

[tony-muscle]

We need the electronic gurus of this board to chime in......

If I had an old MSD box I won't be afraid to open it and play with it, but I don't.

Any information about the voltage/signal of the magnetic pickup? I assume this is a small voltage signal. The points signal is pretty straight forward. It's just an on/off signal at battery voltage.

 

[Don C]

The voltage from the magnetic pickup (in electronic terminology it's a variable reluctance sensor) varies in relation to the speed the distributor is turning, from 3 or 4 volts to as high as 50 volts. It's an analog alternating sinusoidal waveform, sweeping back and forth from negative to positive.

On the other hand, the TFI produces a square waveform, from 0 to +12 volts.

The output to the coil from any of the controllers provides a ground (to charge the coil) and an open that collapses the primary windings around the secondary windings to provide the high voltage impulse to the plugs.

 

[tony-muscle]

The voltage from the magnetic pickup (in electronic terminology it's a variable reluctance sensor) varies in relation to the speed the distributor is turning, from 3 or 4 volts to as high as 50 volts. It's an analog alternating sinusoidal waveform, sweeping back and forth from negative to positive.

On the other hand, the TFI produces a square waveform, from 0 to +12 volts.

The output to the coil from any of the controllers provides a ground (to charge the coil) and an open that collapses the primary windings around the secondary windings to provide the high voltage impulse to the plugs.

Is there a way to have a transistor and/or relay activated with the magnetic pickup signal to open/close (square wave) the 12v line?

Edit: As I think about this a little more it may not make sense since the point when the trigger occurs may vary depending on RPM, which will affect advance and dwell. It feels like it will open another can of worms. I am sure there is a way it can be done, but I am not going to go in this direction. I will go without a DS module and will eventually add a MSD box.

 

[jbojo]

This setup looks like the MSD Atomic setup. One thing that I would recommend is to set up the system to control timing. With my system I use both centrifugal and vacuum advance as this works well with daily driving. Just going centrifugal works great when the motor is always running in the higher rpm bands but you will not be very happy with city driving. Usually you will experience stumbles when accelerating from a stop slowly until centrifugal advance kicks in. Haven't had a chance to look but does the Fitech system allow you to simulate vacuum advance?

 

[tony-muscle]

This setup looks like the MSD Atomic setup. One thing that I would recommend is to set up the system to control timing. With my system I use both centrifugal and vacuum advance as this works well with daily driving. Just going centrifugal works great when the motor is always running in the higher rpm bands but you will not be very happy with city driving. Usually you will experience stumbles when accelerating from a stop slowly until centrifugal advance kicks in. Haven't had a chance to look but doues the Fitech system allow you to simulate vacuum advance?

The ignition control takes care of all the advance. They instruct you to lock the distributor, which cancels both vacuum and centrifugal.

I just talked to their tech and he confirmed this. Also, for others reading this thread, he suggest first installing and fine tuning the system with no ignition control. Then, add ignition control once all is running. It makes sense, since it simplifies any troubleshooting.

With the FI Tech system it is also optional to use the timing control. My main questions to them were:

1. Is the timing control compatible with DS-I (like it is with an MSD box).

2. In the case it is not compatible, does the FI Tech ignition use variable dwell control (as is the case with DS-I).

I guess I should just call them.

I just talked their tech person and it does not control the dwell. It just signals the coil when to fire. If you have the MSD box, then it takes care of it.

 

[jbojo]

I agree with the tuning without timing control initially until you get the motor running the way you like.

When you lock out the distributor and set up timing control all ECU's control timing. I haven't had time to read the setup instructions yet and it could be different from what I am using but usually you will have to specify your timing advance curve. For example this is what I had to do:

Program my base timing to be 14 degrees

Program Centrifugal advance to provide 34 degrees total starting at 900 rpm and all in at 2500 rpm.

Program it to simulate Ported vacuum advance of 10 degrees. Unless you are doing a lot of strip/drag runs (rpm comes up quickly) you won't want just centrifugal advance.

Make sure that your system can accept program changes to the timing curve settings, all motors run differently so you can't depend on just base setup. Just trying to save you headaches and money here. I help on the MSD forum and I see many ready to put their carbs back on and saying it was a waste of $$$. I will say that once an EFI system is dialed in you won't want to go back to a carb.

 

[Don C]

Just for the heck of it, if you're going to run an MSD I would first use FiTech timing control only, then after running for a while, connect the MSD, just to see if there is any noticeable difference. Even though they're not using variable dwell control it may not need it. It's not like points where they have to stay open just because of the cam and required gap, which shortens the dwell time, and they probably already provide maximum dwell time.