Help Me Spend My Money

[Stanglover]

Sorry about the misspelling. I will change  that on my post. I have my Duraspark re-curved.  It's all in around 2600.  I like the idea that with the Progression Distributor in a few second you can set a new curve in it.    I also like the 10 degree for start up and that it can be used for anti theft.    I am a little leary of them due to not being out in the market that long and only finding a few reviews.  There also is the issue of parts if something was to happen.  Alot to think about on this one.

 Yeah, I wasn't meaning to bash you for spelling, please don't take that personally. I want to take a better look at that brand for my own future needs. As you say, not been on the market very long, so will they live up to expectations. We'll see I guess. From the quick look on the website, I liked the fact that they are not some great big ugly thing like the Chevy style HEI, but actually somewhat similar to the factory style, albeit a bit taller it appears and that might cause air cleaner clearance issues. Time for research!!

As far as your back brakes, I will admit I did consider discs, but chose to stick with a new set of standard drum brake with a bias adjuster. Before I added a Trac-Lock diff last year, the rears would lock up way to easily especially on the left wheel. Having the Trac-Lock helped that a lot, but even then, the rears do lock up with the bias valve set very low. To me, these cars are so light on the rear end, I could not justify the cost of cool looking, but only marginally better rear brakes. With 4 piston power discs up front, I have no problem stopping my car. Confession time, I do use my 4 speed manual box quite a lot for engine braking as well. That is the way I was taught back in the old country where automatic tranny's were few and far between. ( brakes weren't that good either!!)

 

[Kilgon]

I'm not sure why you would dump the EFI in favor of an unknown ignition. You already have a good ignition, with the DuraSpark, and for $300 more than the Progression Distributor you can have a FiTech EFI.

Keep picking away.  You are starting to win me over.  Your thoughts about the headers  and o2 sensor.

 

[71coop]

The AC system is the one "non-stock" upgrade I am most glad I did - as a fellow Buckeye, the hot, muggy June/July/August weather can be unbearable on a long drive. That may be worse for me with a black car/black interior.  The CAA kit is a fairly straightforward, bolt-in with minimal cutting on the firewall. I would recommend some minor interior disassembly, like seats, glove box, dash components including the main cluster and center section and dash cap. I also stripped my interior down to redo insulation at the same time, so getting the under-dash unit in was pretty easy for me.

 

[Fabrice]

Confession time, I do use my 4 speed manual box quite a lot for engine braking as well. That is the way I was taught back in the old country

99% of cars here are manuals and same, learned that way too and drove hundreds of thousands doing just that. Never broke a clutch or a tranny. Same when I was driving bikes daily. I was very surprised last year when my youngest got driving lessons that she was taught to never do that. All freewheel with brakes when slowing down. I don't know why they learn that way...

 

[tony-muscle]

My headers are hookers 6115's.  2 of the pipes on each side are 2 pieces - one slides inside the other. Due to this fact I don't know if I can get a good enough seal as to have it not effect the O2 sensor downstream of them.  I have to make sure that whatever I use to try to seal them is something I can break loose fairly easily to get the pipes apart and the headers back off.   I hate to put out that kind of money and have it not work right.  

As I mentioned earlier I've been meaning to ask around on the forum to see if anyone is running Hookers 6115's with EFI and if they have had any issues because of them.  When I put in my O2 wide band sensor to use for tuning I tried some exhaust patch past at the joints but that didn't hold up. I took some exhaust tape and wrapped around the joints to try to seal them but I notice the other day that looks like it is starting to fail after about 4 months.   

The 02 sensor is very sensitive to leaks specially if outside air gets scavenged in, not so much if exhaust gets out. So that would be a concern when measuring AFR with and w/o EFI. In the worst case it will run richer, but I have no way of knowing if it will be enough to cause "major" issues. You can always compensate with the CPU to run a little "leaner".

 

[Stanglover]

 I was very surprised last year when my youngest got driving lessons that she was taught to never do that. All freewheel with brakes when slowing down. I don't know why they learn that way...

 Fabrice, I would think that is because the instructor drives an automatic and doesn't know any better. Let the instructor do his/her thing, then teach your daughter the "right way". The only time I'm in neutral is at a long stop light or stopped in traffic or stop sign. Again, what I was taught, to take the strain off the clutch bearing (as well as the left leg). It's also wrong that these manual Mustangs do NOT have a HAND BRAKE!! The US never figured what they're really for in a manual gearbox car. They sure as sh*t are NOT emergency brakes! 

 

[Fabrice]

The US never figured what they're really for in a manual gearbox car.

Americans... tssss

@Kilgon  if anyone is running Hookers 6115's with EFI and if they have had any issues because of them

I can tell you right now: you're gonna have issues. As said I have these, tho not the nice look yours have, mine came with the car, had may be 500 miles and yet full of dents because they are too low and po obviously had touched many times. They have this zinc rough protection that you could find in the early days of these but they are looking bad and need a new protection.

My first idea was to do juts that and keep them, because 429 headers are simply idiotic expensive, as if tubbing for a 429 is more expensive than for 302's...
But something else happened since then and now I know I want something else, as I already have the sniper for this engine.

They have 2 flaws aside the obvious "grab anything from the road " design. The first most obvious, being in 3 pieces, 2 will leak for sure, no matter what you will do unless you'd weld, making impossible to remove them without cutting.  They will leak simply because at the joins you have twice the metal thickness, the enlarged tube will also expend when hot or during cooling at different speeds causing a gap. You can't really fix this leak. So even if you managed to minimise to the max the leak, you know there will be foreign air entering the system.

and the second, and actually what caused my 73 to be stuck on my driveway for 4 weeks, are the flanges. They used the classic "press tubes in in flanges from behind, weld here and there and call it good"  design. On my 73, which had since I started drive some fluctuation in AFR readings ended up after a good run one day into a AFR 35, or in other words, the max reading for lean the sniper O2 sensor can dispatch. It went from a perfectly running car to a car that went straight into flooded condition the next day.
I won't go into the details and the fun to actually find the issue, not mention the new o2 sensor bought or the harness swap, the hours on Holley forum, the attempts to log before engine dies etc...
Let's just say that it was only when i finally got mad enough that I finally found how i could end up with such extreme readings. Even Holley suggested after all tests were done that the ECU might have been defective, after all it was an early gen of the unit.

As said, the whole thing turned me kookoo, and at some point, tired of guessing, I decided after 2 times checking flange/replacing header gasket that I wanted inspect the header in detail out of the car.
Turns out, it was a mix of things: The way these Hedmans are made, exactly same as the Hookers, is the pressing thingy. Just like he hookers, only few welds keep the tube in place. But because these had run many times, went thru the heat fast, cooling down circles. Some space between tube and flange developed. No gasket could fix that, because it was both on the inside and the outside of the tube, but where its squeezed into the flange. There were also 2 holes due to corrosion there, that I guess were enlarged the last day I ran with my lead shoes. All tight enough when hot and bad the next day.

I needed weld the flanges and tube together to have them really air tight. Back on the car, cfg reset, it started right away, and was running with perfect AFR target and no longer tiny fluctuations.
My hookers and likely yours even if much more pretty, are having the same fabrication method. This means soon or later, the metal will expend and not take the position as it would normally do for some reason and tiny air passages will appear. Tiny bits at a time the very same issue I was having will occur on these I'm 100% sure. 

So as posted in another thread, I will look for another pair of headers, preferably stainless. Like these and first thing I'll do after welding a bung before install, is air pressure test them and eventually weld any leak right away and be sure this never happens again.
http://www.fordpowertrain.com/fpaindex/Mustang1.htm

if you keep the Hookers (they are not cheap and it would be understandable), I would air pressure test them without the 2 pieces and make sure the flanges are really welded. Then after install, look for some kind of sleeve for the 2 connections.

 

[Kilgon]

Americans... tssss

@Kilgon  if anyone is running Hookers 6115's with EFI and if they have had any issues because of them

I can tell you right now: you're gonna have issues. As said I have these, tho not the nice look yours have, mine came with the car, had may be 500 miles and yet full of dents because they are too low and po obviously had touched many times. They have this zinc rough protection that you could find in the early days of these but they are looking bad and need a new protection.

My first idea was to do juts that and keep them, because 429 headers are simply idiotic expensive, as if tubbing for a 429 is more expensive than for 302's...
But something else happened since then and now I know I want something else, as I already have the sniper for this engine.

They have 2 flaws aside the obvious "grab anything from the road " design. The first most obvious, being in 3 pieces, 2 will leak for sure, no matter what you will do unless you'd weld, making impossible to remove them without cutting.  They will leak simply because at the joins you have twice the metal thickness, the enlarged tube will also expend when hot or during cooling at different speeds causing a gap. You can't really fix this leak. So even if you managed to minimise to the max the leak, you know there will be foreign air entering the system.

and the second, and actually what caused my 73 to be stuck on my driveway for 4 weeks, are the flanges. They used the classic "press tubes in in flanges from behind, weld here and there and call it good"  design. On my 73, which had since I started drive some fluctuation in AFR readings ended up after a good run one day into a AFR 35, or in other words, the max reading for lean the sniper O2 sensor can dispatch. It went from a perfectly running car to a car that went straight into flooded condition the next day.
I won't go into the details and the fun to actually find the issue, not mention the new o2 sensor bought or the harness swap, the hours on Holley forum, the attempts to log before engine dies etc...
Let's just say that it was only when i finally got mad enough that I finally found how i could end up with such extreme readings. Even Holley suggested after all tests were done that the ECU might have been defective, after all it was an early gen of the unit.

As said, the whole thing turned me kookoo, and at some point, tired of guessing, I decided after 2 times checking flange/replacing header gasket that I wanted inspect the header in detail out of the car.
Turns out, it was a mix of things: The way these Hedmans are made, exactly same as the Hookers, is the pressing thingy. Just like he hookers, only few welds keep the tube in place. But because these had run many times, went thru the heat fast, cooling down circles. Some space between tube and flange developed. No gasket could fix that, because it was both on the inside and the outside of the tube, but where its squeezed into the flange. There were also 2 holes due to corrosion there, that I guess were enlarged the last day I ran with my lead shoes. All tight enough when hot and bad the next day.

I needed weld the flanges and tube together to have them really air tight. Back on the car, cfg reset, it started right away, and was running with perfect AFR target and no longer tiny fluctuations.
My hookers and likely yours even if much more pretty, are having the same fabrication method. This means soon or later, the metal will expend and not take the position as it would normally do for some reason and tiny air passages will appear. Tiny bits at a time the very same issue I was having will occur on these I'm 100% sure. 

So as posted in another thread, I will look for another pair of headers, preferably stainless. Like these and first thing I'll do after welding a bung before install, is air pressure test them and eventually weld any leak right away and be sure this never happens again.
http://www.fordpowertrain.com/fpaindex/Mustang1.htm

if you keep the Hookers (they are not cheap and it would be understandable), I would air pressure test them without the 2 pieces and make sure the flanges are really welded. Then after install, look for some kind of sleeve for the 2 connections.

First things first - the picture I posted are not the headers I have.  I have the painted ones (poor mans) see below.  I posted that picture because it show how the tubes fit together and why I'm concern about the O2 sensor.

I've also had a leak at one of the flanges and had to weld it so I know exactly what you are talking about.  I have looked at the FPA shorty headers for our cars. I hate the thought of having to buy new headers to get a EFI.  Also, the cost of having to redo some of the exhaust to tie it in. 

I also found out today that both Holley and Fitech  need a distributor that you can lockout the mechanical advance and it must have a adjustable rotor for proper distributor phasing.  So if I want to control my timing through the EFI I will need a new distributor also.  The price just keeps going up.  Don C had me leaning toward a FiTech but I think I'm going to put the EFI on the back  burner again for now.

These are my headers.  

   

 

[Fabrice]

@Kilgon

poor man's Hookers? That does not exist! Otherwise I would have a new pair!

Seriously, I'm thinking of letting a local company that is making ss exhausts, build a pair for me.  They have all the machines to bend without squeezing and SS is their specialty...

As about the dist, you can yes, but you do not need to. It works perfectly with the coil and normal dist. My old mallory does fine. Sure mebbe optimal timing would give you some ET's, but as I don't race and all runs perfectly (when the headers are air tight) no need for that one. Just like in tank pump and other goodies, its nice, but totally not necessary for regular non race use. You can add them later too.

If of any meaning. I can easy say that this device is the best investment I ever made to my car. You might have issues like me and many others, to really have all the details fixed, become familiar etc... but it has to be said: it wasn't the device fault!

 

[Don C]

Keep picking away.  You are starting to win me over.  Your thoughts about the headers  and o2 sensor.

About your only option for headers are shorties. 

You might want to check out these, from Stan's, I've read that he makes the ones for FPA.

Headers for Ford, Mustang, Pinto, Bronco, Cougar, Ranger, exhaust parts for home built do it yourself automotive headers. (stans-headers.com)

If you go with EFI, you'll need to install O2 sensors, and the EFI controller will give you the read out. I like the idea of a stand alone O2 sensor, just not the price.

EDIT: We had a motorhome on a '94 chassis with a 460 that had fuel injection, and as I remember, the stock cast iron exhaust manifolds weren't that bad, seemed to be fairly good flowing. I assume that you're running cast iron manifolds, now. I don't know what year your engine is, and wonder if when they added FI to the 460s if they also improved the exhaust manifolds. You might check around, see if there are better junkyard cast iron ones out there, might save some $s for the interim. 

 

[tony-muscle]

First things first - the picture I posted are not the headers I have.  I have the painted ones (poor mans) see below.  I posted that picture because it show how the tubes fit together and why I'm concern about the O2 sensor.

I've also had a leak at one of the flanges and had to weld it so I know exactly what you are talking about.  I have looked at the FPA shorty headers for our cars. I hate the thought of having to buy new headers to get a EFI.  Also, the cost of having to redo some of the exhaust to tie it in. 

I also found out today that both Holley and Fitech  need a distributor that you can lockout the mechanical advance and it must have a adjustable rotor for proper distributor phasing.  So if I want to control my timing through the EFI I will need a new distributor also.  The price just keeps going up.  Don C had me leaning toward a FiTech but I think I'm going to put the EFI on the back  burner again for now.

These are my headers.  

Yes, you need a distributor that you can lockout, but you can use a standard Duraspark distributor, adjust the rotor and then lock it out. You could use your current distributor. There are a few threads, not in this site, that talk about it. Tomorrow once I am at my computer I will share a couple of links.

Here is a link on lockout. The phasing explained here won't work unless you have the large cap, which we typically dont. You can phase the plate by rotating it before locking it out, or with the vacuum advance mechanism, or by rotating the rotor cap.

https://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?44036-Ford-Duraspark-Distributor-lockout-a-success!

 

[Kilgon]

About your only option for headers are shorties. 

You might want to check out these, from Stan's, I've read that he makes the ones for FPA.

Headers for Ford, Mustang, Pinto, Bronco, Cougar, Ranger, exhaust parts for home built do it yourself automotive headers. (stans-headers.com)

If you go with EFI, you'll need to install O2 sensors, and the EFI controller will give you the read out. I like the idea of a stand alone O2 sensor, just not the price.

EDIT: We had a motorhome on a '94 chassis with a 460 that had fuel injection, and as I remember, the stock cast iron exhaust manifolds weren't that bad, seemed to be fairly good flowing. I assume that you're running cast iron manifolds, now. I don't know what year your engine is, and wonder if when they added FI to the 460s if they also improved the exhaust manifolds. You might check around, see if there are better junkyard cast iron ones out there, might save some $s for the interim. 

I'm running my hooker long tube headers.  I think that the only way to guaranty a trouble free system would be to go with  the FBA / Jeff headers as you and Fabrice  mentioned.  Thanks for the info.  FPA is running about 8 weeks out right now on any orders.  I was a little confused on using the Duraspark distributor but tony-muscle has posted some info on how to make it work.   I will also have to upgrade my fuel pump that I just put in the tank and rework the exhaust if I go this route.  Decisions,  decisions, decisions.         

 

[Kilgon]

Yes, you need a distributor that you can lockout, but you can use a standard Duraspark distributor, adjust the rotor and then lock it out. You could use your current distributor. There are a few threads, not in this site, that talk about it. Tomorrow once I am at my computer I will share a couple of links.

Here is a link on lockout. The phasing explained here won't work unless you have the large cap, which we typically dont. You can phase the plate by rotating it before locking it out, or with the vacuum advance mechanism, or by rotating the rotor cap.

https://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?44036-Ford-Duraspark-Distributor-lockout-a-success!

Great info.  I appreciate you getting this for me.  I emailed FiTech and Holley about using the Duraspark and they both said it couldn't be done.  Little do they know evidently. 

 

[Kilgon]

So here is where I am at right now. 

 I have ordered the sway bars today. Got a good deal.  I found the front 550 on eBay for $200.  It is an open box deal but is like new - never used.  I ordered the 990 from Addco. They are currently out of stock but he said I should have it in about 2 to 3 weeks.   

I have decided to rebuild my a/c system so I am going to go that route instead of replacing the entire system with a Classic Auto Air.  I will be getting the parts in the next week or two.

I fell off of the wagon and took $185 to buy new seat covers for my Ram 3500.  Just couldn't help myself.  I've been needing to replace them for some time now.

Due to my suspicion about my headers effecting the O2 sensor and Fabrice and tony-muscle agreeing I took time yesterday to call and speak to tech support at Holley and Fitech.  I pretty much got the same response from both of them when it comes to using my current hooker headers with an efi, more than likely they will cause issues. 

Although I would like to do the efi the cost is going to be more than I have in my current budget to do it right because of needing to replace my headers. To switch over will cost about $2k. when all is said and done - EFI + headers + exhaust work.  I also spoke to the Holley tech about using the Duraspark and controlling the timing through the efi.  I told him about the blog that tony-muscle had mentioned.  He acknowledged that you could modify it but he tried to encourage me to replace it with an MSD billet distributor or similar style.   

After a lot of tossing and turning last night I decided to pulled the trigger and I went ahead and purchased a refurbished Sniper this morning.  I’m going to hold off on the headers for now but at least I have the efi.  I might still go ahead and try it with my headers and see what happens. I will be going with the Stans headers when I go to switch over.

So that leaves me with three items left on my list, the overdrive tranny, the Progression distributor and the ram air plenum.  I have decided that when I do the tranny that I will most likely go with Gear Vendors.  As money allows  I plan on doing the ram air plenum "got to have a few cool things" and possibly the distributor next year sometime.  I know I can control the timing through the efi if I modify my Duraspark but I like all the features that the Progression distributor offers.

So below is the final breakdown.  The items highlighted in green are what I’m purchasing now.  The items in blue will be in the future and those in red are out. 

A/C System – Getting needed parts to restore my factory original.  $550.

Addco Front & Rear Sway Bars - Got the 550 for front and the 990 for rear.  $418 for both. Got a great buy!

EFI – Sniper – Refurb $799

Bonus purchase – Caltrend seat covers for my truck $185

Gear Vendors overdrive unit.

Progression Ignition Distributor

Ram Air Plenum

Rear Disc Brake Upgrade Kit

Total before taxes  $1,952   - Got free shipping on everything.

I really appreciate everyone’s input and time on this. Your opinions did make a difference.  

I will update as I get everything in and installed under the “What did you do to your car today” post.

 

[tony-muscle]

It sounds that you are figuring it out. You definitively need cold A/C. Remember I have a bunch of old A/C stuff laying around leftover from when I replaced mine so let me know if you need anything. It it was the evaporator or core it's better you got a new one.

 

[Kilgon]

Got my first shipment today of the items I ordered.  I hope to have this on and running in the next few weeks. Seems that it will be pretty easy to install and setup.   I have to get a new in-tank fuel pump yet along with fuel lines.   I also received the 550 sway bar today but the Ebay seller sent the wrong one. He will resend the correct one next week.  

 

[Kilgon]

I wanted to update this post a little and add a few things. I got my Addco sway bars installed. A 990 on the rear and the 550 on front. Overall, the install went well. Got the wrong bushings sent with my order. A simple phone call to Addco and they sent the correct ones out that day. I can't say enough about the guys at Addco. More than willing to help in any way they can.

I got the Holley Sniper installed and working. I removed my headers and did a thorough inspection and repaired a spot that was causing a leak. I sealed the joints where the tubes join with Permatex Copper sealant and also wrapped exhaust repair tape around to ensure a tight seal. Replaced the pump in my tank with an efi rated Holley pump and ran new steel lines for both the supply and return.

I decided against the Progression Ignition Distributor. As @Don C mentioned it doesn't make sense to buy that when I can control the timing with the efi. I was going to try and reuse the Duraspark distributor to work with the Sniper to control timing but decided to go with a Holley Hyperspark distributor instead. Although more money spent, I feel it will be worth it. Still waiting for it to arrive.

I can't believe the difference in the car with the Sniper on it. The car sat for the past 2 weeks without being started. I went out to the garage on Monday and turn the key. It started within a few seconds. Temperature was 40 F. If I had the carb on it would have taken several minutes of pumping the pedal and adjusting the choke to get it to fire up. When it comes to driving, I notice a quicker and smoother response plus the car idles a lot smoother. I read several articles that these are areas where you will see improvement when running a bigger cam. I know that a lot of us are old school and die hard when it comes to new technology on our cars, but this is one upgrade that in my opinion is well worth making the move to.

So, the next two things on the list in order are A/C and overdrive. Hopefully after April 15th (tax time in the US) I'll have a few dollars left to proceed ahead. The A/C will be first. I still plan on trying to piece together what I already have. My local source for the A/C parts has decided to keep what he has so I will probably be getting in touch with @tony-muscle to see what he has left. If things go right, I might be able to squeeze in the overdrive also by the end of the new coming year. Looks like I will go with the GV when I do.

 

[tony-muscle]

I am so happy you had all the dollars well spent. A plus point for EFI!
Does the Holley Hyperspark fit under the Ram Air?

 

[Kilgon]

I am so happy you had all the dollars well spent. A plus point for EFI!
Does the Holley Hyperspark fit under the Ram Air?

I haven't gotten the Hyperspark yet. Holley is saying Jan 13th for shipping date. Also, I didn't get the Ram Air plenum. It's on my "Cool List" for later on down the road. I would think it will fit but I will measure the difference between Duraspark and the Hyperspark when I go to switch and post the difference here.

 

[c9zx]

You can use Permatex 81422 (hi-temp, sensor safe) to seal the joints on the headers. If you seal them after they are on the car, very little will penetrate the slip joint making dis-assemble possible. Let the sealant fully cure before starting the car. Chuck

 

[Kilgon]

You can use Permatex 81422 (hi-temp, sensor safe) to seal the joints on the headers. If you seal them after they are on the car, very little will penetrate the slip joint making dis-assemble possible. Let the sealant fully cure before starting the car. Chuck

Thanks for the info. I used Permatex 81878 which is the Ultra Copper Max Temp and is sensor safe also. I used it before I slid the tubes together to get a better seal. As I mentioned I also wrapped exhaust tape around the joint as an extra precaution. The next time the headers need to come off my oldest son will be doing it if he wants the car when I'm gone.

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