I just installed yet another set of front seat belts.

[Stanglover]

Sometime ago, I posted on replacing front 3 point seat belts that I installed in my Mach 1.
https://7173mustangs.com/threads/re-visiting-3-point-seat-belt-conversions.36970/
Over the original 2 piece lap plus shoulder belt system, they were much better. However there are two things I did NOT like about them. 1) the buckle tang did not free slide like newer car's do and that was a major source of frustration and stopped the belts from retracting properly. 2) I could never pull the belt across without it locking several times.
In the end I got so pi**d off with them, I decided to buy a new set off Amazon. Made in China of course, but the do meet standard. I did find I needed to make a couple of adjustments as I preferred to use the original longer shoulder bolts. This just meant enlarging the holes, but nothing that might cause concern. Next I found I absolutely needed a drop sash. I was able to find some on the web, but after reading how to install them on existing belts, I decided I'd look at taking the drop sashes off the belt I had bought from Seatbelt Solutions (Via WESCO) and refitting them to the new belts. I was surprised how easy it actually was. I just needed to make sure to keep the belt webbing the way it was removed and make sure the real did not loose tension. Yeah, I messed around with this most of the day, but the end result seems to be a win. Do they look correct, hell no, but I don't have a concours car, so I'm not worried what "others" think. The wife is happy with them and that too is a WIN!! She bitc*ed every time she got in the car.
Anyway, here are a few pics off my cheapo phone, so excuse the quality.

NOTE; the sleeves I used for the drop sash I bought from Seatbelt Planet #952 originally for the buckle belt on the tunnel. It works pretty good on the sash too.

EDIT: Added link to original post.

 

[71mach351]

I had issues installing my 3-point belts as well. The way the upper mount is designed/angled the retractor did lock up quite a bit while pulling it out to belt up. I ended up mounting the upper mount backwards. This have the belt the right angle to move freely.
I had them in and out several times. Swapping left and right. This was the only way I could get them to work.
I like that drop sash option.

 

[Stanglover]

I had issues installing my 3-point belts as well. The way the upper mount is designed/angled the retractor did lock up quite a bit while pulling it out to belt up. I ended up mounting the upper mount backwards. This have the belt the right angle to move freely.
I had them in and out several times. Swapping left and right. This was the only way I could get them to work.
I like that drop sash option.

At first, I tried to install the new belt directly to the top mount and that did not work smoothly at all. Part of that was due to the fact that the steel is too thin to provide for a smooth pull. It was obvious I needed the drop sash that has a nice smooth loop.
The offerings from Seatbeat Solutions or any other manufacturer that does not have a free sliding buckle tang are a waste of money IMO. Why those manufacturers don't employ that I can't figure. I mean it's not exactly a concours item is it? The drop sash , especially for shorter people is a must in the fastback and probably the coupe.
One other aspect of this particular belt system is the buckle is on a wire which makes it far easier to use.
However, if someone was looking for a more modern front 3 point belt system, I think I would definitely suggest looking for little better quality with thicker steel components. The offering from Seatbelt Solutions is excellent in that regard. I just didn't like the 'fixed' buckle tang and the fact that it would lock up while trying to pull it across.

 

[Stanglover]

Here's a link to the drop sash I found. It is only 6" but way better than not having one regardless of driver height.
https://www.seatsafe.com.au/product/drop-down-d-sash-guide-150mm/ Ooops! I did not realize these are Australian, so may take longer to get. There may be others available here. Seatbelt Planet sell accessories, sleeves etc. but not drop sashes.

As I've gained experience taking belts out of the retractor and refitting them, I may attempt to make a short video on that process. This is necessary to add a drop sash to an existing belt. I've never done a video before, so I guess we'll see how it goes. For me to buy a set of these drop sashes in US dollars plus shipping, makes them too expensive just demonstrate, but it's the principle that's important.
The set I just took out are still good belts if anybody wants them, $ TBA. PM me.

 

[Stanglover]

Let me know if you want more information or help.

 

[Stanglover]

Hmmm, well that sucks! I was out for probably our last A&W Cruise night last Thursday. After our usual after cruise coffee at Tim Horton's, I got in the car to leave when I found my driver side seat belt retractor had locked solid. I could not pull the belt out 1". I had to drive home beltless. Yesterday I pulled that belt out of the car to see if i could get it to work.
Short answer, no. After much trying, I did finally get the belt fully pulled out. The mechanism was still sticking. I bought this set from Amazon, so they only offer a 30 day return and I could not find any reference to manufacturers warranty. The box and instructions of course were long gone. I did send the seller a complaint, requesting a return and refund. Not holding my breath there!
Anyway, I then decided to try to swap the belt to the retractor from the previous set. That retractor was also locking up when putting the belt on, but better than nothing.
So, while removing the newer belt from the stuck retractor, guess what. Although I had inserted a screw driver to hold the real in place, it slipped out and the damn real spun releasing the spring tension and the spring must have come out of its socket. So now the retractor is totally f'd as I can't open the case holding the spring and locking mechanism. So I probably can't send it back now anyway, a 90 dollar screw-up!
So on to my next thought, take a seat belt set from a newer car at the junk yard and see if I can make that work. As all newer cars have hidden retractors, I'm not sure what to expect, but worth a try I guess. I'll update on that later.

 

[giantpune]

So on to my next thought, take a seat belt set from a newer car at the junk yard and see if I can make that work. As all newer cars have hidden retractors, I'm not sure what to expect, but worth a try I guess. I'll update on that later.

From what I gather, you need to pick a car with a similar length belt as what you'd need in our car.

Basically, the mechanism winding the belt is meant to roll up a certain amount of belt. If you pick the wrong car you could end up with something like the belt still drooping after the retractor has retracted everything it is going to do. Or you could end up with the retractor trying to roll up too much belt and clogging itself. Or you could end up with a belt that's too short and doesnt have enough material to make it around your belly.

 

[Sheriff41]

Yep, that would be frustrating. I'm guessing a good OEM belt sourced from a salvage yard would be better quality than some of the aftermarket ones. Let us know what you come up with.

 

[Stanglover]

From what I gather, you need to pick a car with a similar length belt as what you'd need in our car.

Basically, the mechanism winding the belt is meant to roll up a certain amount of belt. If you pick the wrong car you could end up with something like the belt still drooping after the retractor has retracted everything it is going to do. Or you could end up with the retractor trying to roll up too much belt and clogging itself. Or you could end up with a belt that's too short and doesnt have enough material to make it around your belly.

Yes indeed, I am aware of those possibilities. I probably will have to send a few hours checking belts out. Luckily, the local "junk yard" (and I do mean junk yard) are willing to let me go through as many cars as I need to.
As for a "belly" I don't have one!! I do need to consider the length for the "passenger side" though!!

 

[Stanglover]

Yep, that would be frustrating. I'm guessing a good OEM belt sourced from a salvage yard would be better quality than some of the aftermarket ones. Let us know what you come up with.

That's what I'm hoping for too. Better quality.
I know our aftermarket suppliers were trying to make a belt that is somewhat like the original with buckles and other parts, but honestly, the buckle tang could have been made free sliding and still look the part.

 

[tony-muscle]

Interesting. I guess I missed this thread when originally posted. I hear you in regards to the buckle not sliding. On my side I already have it positioned to fit me but whenever I have a passenger it takes a while. Not only the buckle is a pain to slide but then the reel locks, then you go back a little to unlock it and pull it couple more inches and locks again. This happens mainly on the passenger side. On my side I kind of know the trick and can make it work.
I am curious on how you got the sash in, but in second guess maybe it is not the safest thing to do so the spring doenst unwind.

 

[giantpune]

Yes indeed, I am aware of those possibilities. I probably will have to send a few hours checking belts out. Luckily, the local "junk yard" (and I do mean junk yard) are willing to let me go through as many cars as I need to.
As for a "belly" I don't have one!! I do need to consider the length for the "passenger side" though!!

Yep. Our local pull-a-part is swanky. $1 fee to walk around the lot. All the cars are already lifted up 18" off the ground. And gravel everywhere so you dont need to lay in the mud. And they have a bunch of wheel barrows they use as shopping carts.

If you look through a couple cars, you can find the change in the ash tray and get back your $1 entry fee.

 

[Stanglover]

Yep. Our local pull-a-part is swanky. $1 fee to walk around the lot. All the cars are already lifted up 18" off the ground. And gravel everywhere so you dont need to lay in the mud. And they have a bunch of wheel barrows they use as shopping carts.

If you look through a couple cars, you can find the change in the ash tray and get back your $1 entry fee.

Sweet! Nothing but MUD at the local junk yard, so gotta take my wellies!

 

[Stanglover]

Interesting. I guess I missed this thread when originally posted. I hear you in regards to the buckle not sliding. On my side I already have it positioned to fit me but whenever I have a passenger it takes a while. Not only the buckle is a pain to slide but then the reel locks, then you go back a little to unlock it and pull it couple more inches and locks again. This happens mainly on the passenger side. On my side I kind of know the trick and can make it work.
I am curious on how you got the sash in, but in second guess maybe it is not the safest thing to do so the spring doenst unwind.

Unnecessary locking and the buckle not free sliding is the main reason I want to look at an alternative. For now, since I screwed up the cheapo Chinese set I bought, I have installed that belt on the other retractor. The newer belt is quite a bit longer, so it doesn't fully retract, but for now, I can live with it. The car will be in storage shortly (in my own garage) so no rush to get it done. In the meantime, I can at least drive it legally.
As for holding the "drum" I use a small screwdriver wedged through the belt slot if you can picture that. Actually, on the retractor from Seatbelt Solutions, the spring can easily be rewound without it busting loose as did the cheapo one. Ask me how I know!!
More later, stay tuned.

 

[Stanglover]

I just spent a couple of hours sloshing through the mud at the junk yard and to no avail. From the cars I looked at, none seemed to have a retractor that will work in the location we need. Because the newer retractors are bolted to the B pillar and covered by the entire trim panel, they are quite a bit larger and totally a different design. So for now, that idea is on the back burner.
For me, I've spent enough time and money on this, so I'm going to stick with sacrificing the cheapo Chinese belts and installing them into the Seatbelt Solutions retractors. The one I just did will work just fine.
I came to realize that where the belt attaches to the real, using a plastic peg (I'll take pics later) the loop the peg passes through, can be cut and restitched using a suitable high strength thread to shorten the belt as well as to install a sliding tang. The reason is simple, that part will never see any strain if and when an impact actuates the seat belt.
It would be really nice IF the current manufacturers would get away from the idea of trying to make it look like the original and make that buckle tang free sliding. Perhaps several of us need to approach these manufacturers with this request.
I hope this makes sense to everyone.

 

[tony-muscle]

I just spent a couple of hours sloshing through the mud at the junk yard and to no avail. From the cars I looked at, none seemed to have a retractor that will work in the location we need. Because the newer retractors are bolted to the B pillar and covered by the entire trim panel, they are quite a bit larger and totally a different design. So for now, that idea is on the back burner.
For me, I've spent enough time and money on this, so I'm going to stick with sacrificing the cheapo Chinese belts and installing them into the Seatbelt Solutions retractors. The one I just did will work just fine.
I came to realize that where the belt attaches to the real, using a plastic peg (I'll take pics later) the loop the peg passes through, can be cut and restitched using a suitable high strength thread to shorten the belt as well as to install a sliding tang. The reason is simple, that part will never see any strain if and when an impact actuates the seat belt.
It would be really nice IF the current manufacturers would get away from the idea of trying to make it look like the original and make that buckle tang free sliding. Perhaps several of us need to approach these manufacturers with this request.
I hope this makes sense to everyone.

Maybe the issue is that the sliding buckle tang needs that stop button placed in the exact spot so the tang rests when not in used but not too short that it will prevent the strap from completely retracting. That said, for an aftermarket "universal" application it is very difficult to hit that spot so that's maybe why they don't want to risk offering said alternative.

 

[Don C]

When I first started working on my Mustang I scrounged the salvage yards and never did find anything suitable. All of the retractors were way too big.
A hot rodder/mechanic friend of mine recommended this place, Southern Hot Rods, many years ago, even before I bought my Mustang.
https://www.southernrods.com/seat-belts/three-point-retractable-shoulder-harness-1.htmlI know that they have been selling these for more than 10 years, surprised there aren't any reviews on them. Which, may be good, I believe most are like me, most of the time they only review when the product is crap.

I posted this link on the forum several years ago, and as far as I know, nobody has tried them. So, I think I'll order a set and see how they look. I'm not to the point of installing the interior, yet, but may as well get something marked off the check list, besides engine and transmission stuff.

It appears that the retractor is no larger than the ones in our cars, may even be smaller.

Edit: just tried to order the black, they are out of stock, so I requested they notify me when they back in stock.

 

[tony-muscle]

When I first started working on my Mustang I scrounged the salvage yards and never did find anything suitable. All of the retractors were way too big.
A hot rodder/mechanic friend of mine recommended this place, Southern Hot Rods, many years ago, even before I bought my Mustang.
https://www.southernrods.com/seat-belts/three-point-retractable-shoulder-harness-1.htmlI know that they have been selling these for more than 10 years, surprised there aren't any reviews on them. Which, may be good, I believe most are like me, most of the time they only review when the product is crap.

I posted this link on the forum several years ago, and as far as I know, nobody has tried them. So, I think I'll order a set and see how they look. I'm not to the point of installing the interior, yet, but may as well get something marked off the check list, besides engine and transmission stuff.

It appears that the retractor is no larger than the ones in our cars, may even be smaller.

Edit: just tried to order the black, they are out of stock, so I requested they notify me when they back in stock.

Looking closely at the picture of the buckle tang it appear to be similar to the one Stanglover and I have.

 

[tpj71mach]

Snake-Oyl products out of Tyler Texas does a real nice seat belt restoration, I have used this company for all of my other cars seat belt restorations and plan to use them for my Mustang when I get to that point. They also sell pre-made three point replacement harnesses and can as I understand from the website make customer three point harnesses. I have never had them do anything custom yet but plan to see if they can for my Mustang. I would like a three point set up with factory looking buckles in that car if possible.
This is their website:
https://www.ssnake-oyl.com/
They have redone my OEM belts with re-chromed buckles rebuilt retractors and all new webbing and they made ID tags (GM thing) with the production date on them that matched what was left of my original tags and sewed them onto the webbing like originals.. They are not cheap but they did a great job, I was impressed with the quality.

 

[Stanglover]

Maybe the issue is that the sliding buckle tang needs that stop button placed in the exact spot so the tang rests when not in used but not too short that it will prevent the strap from completely retracting. That said, for an aftermarket "universal" application it is very difficult to hit that spot so that's maybe why they don't want to risk offering said alternative.

Tony, good point on the position of the stop button. On the set I bought off Amazon, I actually needed to reposition the button about 3" lower so I could easily reach back and get hold of the buckle. Stop buttons are readily available and cheap as well as very easy to insert. Buttons could be supplied separately for placing where necessary.